Has Riot completely forgotten about Skarner?

abdollah56273·Jun 25, 2017·23 votes·7,202 views

In the past 12 months, I've seen rioters making new skins, and at least TALK about every champion in the game, whether it's for balance changes, updates, reworks etc. But Riot hasn't even talked about . Which is sad because he is in dire need of an update. I'm one of the few Skarner mains out there and sure, he may not be as flashy or look as "cool" as Aatrox or Yasuo, but he really needs a Rel'Sai scope update.

While I love playing , I just feel like he could be so much better. One thing I do hope is that they can distribute his power budget a little better. Right now it's all concentrated into his ult and spires.

If any rioter sees this, I wanna ask, how high priority does have as far as getting looked at for some sort of update?

50 Comments

RiotRiot MapleNectarJun 25, 201720 votes

Commenting here so I remember to come back later, on the road atm.

SolideusJun 25, 20173 votes

Uh-oh! People are gonna read a lot into this comment. :P

ShahamutJun 25, 20172 votes

Can't wait to hear from you!

AmazoXJun 25, 201711 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Asyrite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KvHsWkv8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-06-25T17:07:23.053+0000)

Commenting here so I remember to come back later, on the road atm.

So that means you check the boards even when you are on the road, Applause for you.

PredatoratorJun 25, 20171 votes

Can't wait!

SpideraxeJun 25, 201713 votes

Skarner confirmed to be able to comeback later into the game with a new road mechanic?

HalcyonDwellerJun 26, 20172 votes

Now now, lets not troll Rioters who genuinely show interest in engaging with us on the boards.

BeatzBoyFTWJun 26, 20176 votes

Tokyo Drift Skarner skin confirmed

RalanrJun 27, 20171 votes

Vroom vroom

ReZisT LustJun 26, 20171 votes

drops a pathway under him that stays on the ground and gives him and teammates inceased ms at 25 minute mark

JaxMoonStealerJun 26, 20171 votes

Déjà vu, I have been in this place before.

Report EvelynnJun 25, 20171 votes

chackmark for me checking in later

RiotRiot MapleNectarJun 26, 201717 votes

Crud...i just had a decent sized reply ready then fat fingered my keyboard and lost it :( RIP message - you were so young, you'll be sorely missed.

Anywho. Firstly I want to make it clear that we have no current plans for Skarner. We're not currently looking at him, nor are we planning on doing anything to him in the next few months at the very least. I do want to say that he has come up internally several times over the past few weeks as a good potential candidate for a Rek'sai scope update - like you correctly pointed out :)! He's one of our more niche champions (few people play him, but those that do play a lot of him), which in and of itself isn't a problem, but it does make it harder to prioritize work on him over other champions who impact a larger amount of players.

That being said there's likely some low cost but high value work that we could do on Skarner to make him a more compelling champion to play, and potentially even give him a strategic reason to be picked. What I mean by that is that very rarely - or ever - will you be in champ select, look at the other team and go "ah! this is a game for Skarner!". Instead you'll usually pick him because you've likely put in hundreds of games of him and have mastered his kit to the point where you can win >50% of games even when matched up into a team that somewhat counters you. Take Amumu on the other hand, who very easily be picked for a strategic reason when your top laner picks Kennen or your mid laner takes Ori. In those case you're opting into the very clear wombo combo team comp, where you ult, and they layer theirs on top of you for that sweet pentakill action. Skarner on the other hand, has a far blurrier strategic identity, and there aren't many clear circumstances when you pick him to counter someone on the other team, or even to synergize well with your own team.

This may be a bit frustrating, but I'm going to hold off from getting into tactics for what we could/will maybe do for Skarner in the future, since that would be up to the game designer who's working on him (I'm just the Product Lead for Live Gameplay), but I do want to say that he's on our minds and that we haven't forgotten him. I've also got a pretty close co-worker (Gentleman Gustaf) who's a Skarner aficionado who we'll certainly be consulting with when we take him on!

I'm sorry I can't go into specifics, or even give you a timeline, but I also get sad when I see mains of champions who just want a little love feeling like they got lost at the wayside and wanted to chime in. I remember how much that meant to me whenever a Rioter would talk about Udyr on the boards back when I was playing in my parents basement up in Canada :P.

Be safe out there.

SejeoJun 26, 20171 votes

I assume that there are other champions you guys are also looking to change up a little as well like singed

ShahamutJun 26, 20172 votes

Skarner, for me at least, is a Skirmisher. I play him top lane, and I can duel about anyone. For me, his role in a team fight is to peel for carries with his ult and then kill whoever he peeled off.

His power curve is also much like that of a Skirmisher: VERY weak early, until you can farm up a few key items. For Skarner, this would be Sheen plus tier 2 boots. Then once you finish Trinity force and your first resist item, he hits his biggest power spike.

I hope that whatever you decide to do with him, you keep him as a scrappy fighter (and get rid of spires). I really enjoy his ability to chase people down and fight.

As far as niche is concerned, I pick Skarner when the enemy team isn't a super poke comp and/or has a lot of divers. Skarner is good at punishing bad positioning and peeling his carry from at least one target. He is also great in 1v1 scenarios and has enough aoe with Q spam and E to have decent wave clear and sheen procs help take towers.

Please don't pretend he is a diver. This idea that Skarner flash ults the carry and drags them into your team ONLY happens if the carry is out of position, NEVER in a proper fight.

My Waifu VanillaJun 26, 20171 votes

I agree with most of this. Skarner VERY much fulfills the same role as Rammus to an extent. He can move around the map very easily and has one of the best peeling kits in the game. Both excel in 2v1s (you being on the 2 side) since you have great lockdown (thus making you generally good early-ish game junglers) while transitioning more towards a Warden where you sit on your carry (GENERALLY the ADC) and use your point and click "nope" button and kill whoever wants to mess with them.

That being said his kit DOES still feel very mish-mashed even after his like 4 reworks. W is definitely a diver ability which I think has no place being in his kit outside of early game ganks. Q is a skirmisher ability which is INCREDIBLY fire and forget since it doesn't offer anything besides straight up damage and jungle clear speed. E is fine since it does offer him early game CC while doing a fair bit of damage on a semi-short cooldown when maxed. R is also fine and iconic to Skarner and needs no changes (if they get rid of the spires the ult should still keep the MS steroid).

Personally, I would like to see Skarner get the slow on Q back if possible (and remove it from E if need be). It helps with him getting kited if he is actually chasing someone down and I really can't see a reason it got removed in the first place when Rammus got a much stronger "perma slow" on his ult in his rework. I would rather see Skarner more tank-like than diver like so if his damage takes a hit to give it back (so he can't straight up 1v1 anyone on the planet) then so be it. Skarner should be there to help set up picks or peel and you don't need very high damage to accomplish either task.

W could be whatever tbh. It should remain some sort of defensive steroid (currently it is is the %health shield) but outside of that it can be whatever. Hell W could cause your Q to slow during the duration of the shield if that is a necessary valve that way you can simply fight back for a few seconds to avoid getting slowed to death (much like how Naut gets his empowered autos during his W).

I really don't think Skarner needs a whole lot of work done to him he just needs to be pushed in one direction instead of being this Vanguard, Warden, Diver.....thingy.

PredatoratorJun 26, 20171 votes

i think it's rather easier to revert the jugg rework and balance from there. his status prior to the class update was still healthy and balanced, while also being fun. some tweak to keep him up with the time, and he would be good to go till the VGU.

ShahamutJun 26, 20171 votes

I think Skarner isn't too jumbled up aside from RIOT just not wanting to agree on what he is supposed to be. There aren't very many "slayers" in the game, and I really feel like Skarner plays like one. His W I would disagree is not a Diver ability but rather a duelist/split push ability. It's low cooldown makes it his unique form of sudo-sustain in fights, and it allows him to speed around the map.

I personally disagree with the comparison to Ramus. Ramus had a MUCH bigger speed buff and is a lot tankier. Ramus, if I'm not mistaken, is a vanguard (initiating tank). Although Skarner COULD act as an initiator, I think it would be a poor engage at best.

I really don't think he needs perma slow. If you want it, but Rylia's, the stats arent terrible on him. I definitely prefer his perma speed q stacking pre juggernaut. Only change I would make is go replace his crystal venom proc bonus damage with the heal he used to have on his E. You could still have the bonus damage on ult per stack, but putting the heal back in his kit would be nice.

PredatoratorJun 26, 20171 votes

so he should stun and heal himself at once?

ShahamutJun 26, 20171 votes

Instead of the bonus damage? After landing e spells? Yes. He used to have a heal mechanic on his E, but it was really bad. So it got removed with his slow on q

PredatoratorJun 27, 20171 votes

it may work, and if it does, there will be room for some carry-ish builds. The heal mechanic on E was actually good. however people maxed it only when playing toplane skarner, for sustain. while the majority of players playing skarner only maxed it last, after R,Q and W

ShahamutJun 27, 20171 votes

Everyone needs a skill to max last :-P

Going back to pre juggernaut though, it would be part of his passive.

PredatoratorJun 27, 20171 votes

And that's ok, if not a given =). My point, and riot's One at The time, is that in any jungle matchup E was maxed last, there was no interesting choice.

ShahamutJun 28, 20171 votes

Nah, I totally got it :P hence my reference to it being on his passive.

KoboldJun 27, 20171 votes

How did you get him to work top lane? I have tried for months and never really won lane except in very extreme cases where the opponent fought me in minions stupidly. I had a decent win rate but could not determine a good set of runes to use that circumvents his low mana in lane and abusibility by any champion with some form of ranged harass.

ShahamutJun 27, 20171 votes

When I play Skarner top, I run:

Reds: Attack Speed x9 Yellows: Flat Armor x9 Blues: Flat MR x9 Quints: Attack speed x1, Flat armor x2

Masteries you have options: I usually run 18/0/12, or 0/18/12. Your keystone can be either warlords (its ok) fervor (pretty good) Thunderlords (pretty good) or storm raiders (situational).

Make sure in the defensive tree you have the runic armor (increased shields/heals) and the one that gives you bonus armor/mr first time you take damage.

Starting item depends, but you want to rush sheen plus tier 2 boots. Then finish Triforce and then a defensive item

kasfasJun 26, 20172 votes

Miss it up here eh?

JhínJun 26, 20171 votes

plz plz forgive skarner and stop reworking him! i like current skarner very much! i was a rammus main and practise him 200games for rank, then you reworked him so i give up rammus. now i am practising skar. i like him! if you rework him, i will uninstall!

PredatoratorJun 26, 20171 votes

Thank You for stepping in =)

FlemmanJun 26, 20172 votes

The only thing skarner need is a more clear distinction from other champ about his control identity.

By that I mean, if nunu is best jungler for contesting objective, skarner best identity shouldn't be that too (because one of them will always be the second) and instead he should embrace the "control area" fantasy.

Shrine aren't that bad to be honest, you feel strong when you are in it so it make sense that a lot of his power budget are tie to it in it's current state. No, what feel crapy about them is that, as a "this is my territory" ability, you have no way to chose where you want your territory to be on the map. If the ennemy don't want to play near them then you lose a great part of your kit, if you need to turtle in your base to come back or closing an early lead with a push that's the same, they are just not where you can make use of it.

This downside of skarner kit could be solve if he was able to move his shrine on certain condition. For exemple, when he reach level 6, making him able to "ult" a shrine (no ennemy in the area of effect), just so he can move it on his back (no timer, recast to choose new area or drop upon death) and place it where he needs it (in neutral state to avoid gank abuse), while making him unable to use R on a champ when moving shrine (decision between setting a fight or taking a fight). Maybe, to top that, a second cd on ult (like leblanc clone) so moving shrine around the map isn't on a 100% uptime when ult is available (or on the shrine themselves so you can't move the same again and again in short time)

That could lead to better satisfaction for the skarner player as now his strategic mind is challenged.

is it better to focus more shrine around a certain lane in the expense of a weaker area on the map
should i place as many shrine as I can near base so I feel safer leaving it
should I put them near enemy base's gate for better push with the risk of losing control of them if the ennemy comeback
I want 2 shrine in the river to move fast between lane, should I risk an invade to take the one I don't intend to use in the enemy jungle or should I play safer and give up my own buff control area

abdollah56273Jun 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Asyrite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KvHsWkv8,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-06-26T01:20:42.555+0000)

Crud...i just had a decent sized reply ready then fat fingered my keyboard and lost it :( RIP message - you were so young, you'll be sorely missed.

Anywho. Firstly I want to make it clear that we have no current plans for Skarner. We're not currently looking at him, nor are we planning on doing anything to him in the next few months at the very least. I do want to say that he has come up internally several times over the past few weeks as a good potential candidate for a Rek'sai scope update - like you correctly pointed out :)! He's one of our more niche champions (few people play him, but those that do play a lot of him), which in and of itself isn't a problem, but it does make it harder to prioritize work on him over other champions who impact a larger amount of players.

That being said there's likely some low cost but high value work that we could do on Skarner to make him a more compelling champion to play, and potentially even give him a strategic reason to be picked. What I mean by that is that very rarely - or ever - will you be in champ select, look at the other team and go "ah! this is a game for Skarner!". Instead you'll usually pick him because you've likely put in hundreds of games of him and have mastered his kit to the point where you can win >50% of games even when matched up into a team that somewhat counters you. Take Amumu on the other hand, who very easily be picked for a strategic reason when your top laner picks Kennen or your mid laner takes Ori. In those case you're opting into the very clear wombo combo team comp, where you ult, and they layer theirs on top of you for that sweet pentakill action. Skarner on the other hand, has a far blurrier strategic identity, and there aren't many clear circumstances when you pick him to counter someone on the other team, or even to synergize well with your own team.

This may be a bit frustrating, but I'm going to hold off from getting into tactics for what we could/will maybe do for Skarner in the future, since that would be up to the game designer who's working on him (I'm just the Product Lead for Live Gameplay), but I do want to say that he's on our minds and that we haven't forgotten him. I've also got a pretty close co-worker (Gentleman Gustaf) who's a Skarner aficionado who we'll certainly be consulting with when we take him on!

I'm sorry I can't go into specifics, or even give you a timeline, but I also get sad when I see mains of champions who just want a little love feeling like they got lost at the wayside and wanted to chime in. I remember how much that meant to me whenever a Rioter would talk about Udyr on the boards back when I was playing in my parents basement up in Canada :P.

Be safe out there.

This may go against my emotional interests, since being one of the few Skarner mains out there makes me feel special, but I believe if you would update him and make him a more compelling champion to play, I bet he might get a bit more popular and somewhat increase his playrate. Just like Malzahar. From my personal experience, after his rework, I recall that his playrate skyrocketed and he is now one of the more popular champions. A better example is Galio. Before his VGU, almost nobody played him. He had one of the lowest playrate in the game. After his VGU, his popularity skyrocketed and he was used in the LCS a few days ago if I recall correctly. So with a proper update, I believe Skarner would become more popular

A year ago one of your colleagues said that they do not intend to get rid of the spires, (though personally I would rather replace them with a new passive). If you're intent on keeping his spires anyway, I do hope at least you would spread out his power budget a little bit, make him a bit more viable outside of his spires.

I don't think he needs a Sion/Taric level of rework. A VU perhaps, but Riot said they're not gonna pure VUs. A Rek'Sai level update, even Udyr level would be enough

Also, he needs a new splash art. His base is getting dated

NefasJun 27, 20171 votes

What a crappy answer. "He's niche champion...which makes it harder to prioritize work...". Riot made him more of a niche champion through his failed reworks and now it's the players fault for not playing him enough? I stopped playing Skarner because I despise what Riot forced his identity into with the spires. It is deeply frustrating when a champion is less popular, more niche but won't be fixed all because of actions Riot and Riot alone chose to take. No one asked for the spire identity; no wonder it isn't popular.

And if the size of the playerbase doesn't really matter, you seriously should not bring it up. It either is or is not a problem. Same as with making skins for Zyra, Yorick, etc. if the complexity of the skin doesn't actually matter for whether Riot is willing to make it, bringing the issue up is just making excuses. If these things are a problem, it is far better to own it than dance around the issue.

subhuman team XDJun 28, 20171 votes

how about rengar mains ? :(

The0nlyLordREMAug 21, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Asyrite,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KvHsWkv8,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-06-26T01:20:42.555+0000)

Crud...i just had a decent sized reply ready then fat fingered my keyboard and lost it :( RIP message - you were so young, you'll be sorely missed.

Anywho. Firstly I want to make it clear that we have no current plans for Skarner. We're not currently looking at him, nor are we planning on doing anything to him in the next few months at the very least. I do want to say that he has come up internally several times over the past few weeks as a good potential candidate for a Rek'sai scope update - like you correctly pointed out :)! He's one of our more niche champions (few people play him, but those that do play a lot of him), which in and of itself isn't a problem, but it does make it harder to prioritize work on him over other champions who impact a larger amount of players.

That being said there's likely some low cost but high value work that we could do on Skarner to make him a more compelling champion to play, and potentially even give him a strategic reason to be picked. What I mean by that is that very rarely - or ever - will you be in champ select, look at the other team and go "ah! this is a game for Skarner!". Instead you'll usually pick him because you've likely put in hundreds of games of him and have mastered his kit to the point where you can win >50% of games even when matched up into a team that somewhat counters you. Take Amumu on the other hand, who very easily be picked for a strategic reason when your top laner picks Kennen or your mid laner takes Ori. In those case you're opting into the very clear wombo combo team comp, where you ult, and they layer theirs on top of you for that sweet pentakill action. Skarner on the other hand, has a far blurrier strategic identity, and there aren't many clear circumstances when you pick him to counter someone on the other team, or even to synergize well with your own team.

This may be a bit frustrating, but I'm going to hold off from getting into tactics for what we could/will maybe do for Skarner in the future, since that would be up to the game designer who's working on him (I'm just the Product Lead for Live Gameplay), but I do want to say that he's on our minds and that we haven't forgotten him. I've also got a pretty close co-worker (Gentleman Gustaf) who's a Skarner aficionado who we'll certainly be consulting with when we take him on!

I'm sorry I can't go into specifics, or even give you a timeline, but I also get sad when I see mains of champions who just want a little love feeling like they got lost at the wayside and wanted to chime in. I remember how much that meant to me whenever a Rioter would talk about Udyr on the boards back when I was playing in my parents basement up in Canada :P.

Be safe out there.

I wonder what strategic identity shyvana has "Farm for 20 min and then outstat everything"? I cant imagine seeing a team and thinking "this will be a good game for shyvana. Skarner has a lot of strategic thought (e.g. dont pick him vs Morgana, do pick him vs Soraka so I can ult her to prevent the heals).

NAY WrecksauceJun 25, 20176 votes

Who's skarner

Variks the LoyalJun 25, 20174 votes

I think because Skarner has a very dedicated fanbase, they're trying to avoid a Ryze situation and just save it for a VGU.

The only thing is that he's so far down the line, and it makes sense. Visually, a lot of other champions need VGUs before Skarner does.

NeclordJun 26, 20174 votes

Just remove the spires and I'll play him again.

ShadowParkerJun 25, 20172 votes

How is he as flashy or cool as Aatrox? The guy wasn't touched for the longest time because of his unhealthy kit.

Are we gonna say Urgot is "flashy and cool" since he's being worked on? You used a terrible example man.

ShahamutJun 25, 20172 votes

I think "flashy" was to "yasuo" as "looks cool" was to "aatrox" and he said "not as"

and sure, he may not be as flashy or look as "cool" as Aatrox or Yasuo,

Blade of JusticJun 25, 20172 votes

I think Skarner is fine as is.

If he gets a few buffs, I won't cry, but he's not anywhere near being unplayable or unviable.

SweedishGunnerJun 25, 20171 votes

if I remember correctly Skarner always seems to have okay numbers win rate wise.

Just be careful what you wish for or he'll get Malzahar'd and become a support for a while.

SolideusJun 25, 20171 votes

He might very well get some balance work short-term, but a Rek'Sai level update seems unlikely since he's probably waiting for a VGU, long-term.

PredatoratorJun 25, 20171 votes

I'm still hoping for a rek'sai update on skarner

EratosJun 25, 20171 votes

Agree i never see this guy but neithe Urgot ..Only Yasuo and more of this guy..that evryone dont wanna have him in their team LOL.

Autrah FangJun 25, 20171 votes

i did see them mention skarner at some point within the last 12 months. i'm pretty sure they stated at this point he needs a full VGU.

Sèx Craved EveJun 25, 20171 votes

I want skarner to dig his legs into the ground and fire a Vel'koz style laser beam from his tail.

Why? It's cool.

abadhaikuJun 26, 20171 votes

Commenting to find later and see the Rioter response

ThePurpleKnightJun 27, 20171 votes

What's especially sad is the fact that Skarner used to be fine, he got reworked in 4.2 and got less sticky but overall better, and then 8 patches later they completely shit on that idea and take everything he values away leaving him with basically nothing, and then eventually they reworked him again, his win rate became insane likely due to how different he was and how bad players were at fighting him, so he harshly nerfed. Now he's slow, low damage and super escapable, but at the same time he is missing stuff that has made him work in the past, (Mainly Attack Speed and Energize)