The Assassin update aimed at reducing the time it took to kill people

Malicious Metal·Dec 31, 2016·63 votes·3,261 views

So why can't we generally increase time windows of how fast people are dying?

Because as things currently stand if you're not a hyper tank everything dies like flies, mostly in time frames under one second. Reducing some excessive damage and reworking some Masteries to be mostly utility focused and less about high ooompg damage would be a start. Followed by a pass on pen items and those who just add unnecessary additional damage like Runaans and co.

Just a thought from someone who enjoys longer team fights and skirmishes.

34 Comments

Sahn UzalDec 31, 201647 votes

Sure, but lifesteal and healing/shielding from supports would need to be toned down (it already does, but it'd be an absolute must if we increased the window of folks dying.)

Bursting an ADC's entire healthbar before they can get an AA off because is often the only way to kill them through their rediculous lifesteal and the massive amount of shielding/healing from supports these days.

La BarbotteDec 31, 20167 votes

everything should, we need the few next patches to only have nerfs, no more buffs, untill we reverse the power creep we got ourselves

AnidanJan 1, 20172 votes

More Grounding debuff necessary.

Gnart Even CloseJan 1, 20171 votes

I'd love to see lifesteal work off of damage dealt before resistances, not apply to Runaan's Hurricane, and not scale with crits and basic attack modifiers. I think that might be enough to help lower the lifesteal problem.

For supports, just tuning them down is probably the right path. The amount of heals and shields has been increased pretty massively with the new bonus heal/shield power on support items. The new itemization synergizes much better with them now and it would be a shame to ruin that.

NGNL AsianJan 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KqIM5fio,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-31T12:57:52.025+0000)

Sure, but lifesteal and healing/shielding from supports would need to be toned down (it already does, but it'd be an absolute must if we increased the window of folks dying.)

Bursting an ADC's entire healthbar before they can get an AA off because is often the only way to kill them through their rediculous lifesteal and the massive amount of shielding/healing from supports these days.

Half the adcs split push while the sups roam to help the team, and plus it's not the lifesteal, it's fucking warlords adding 10k more outplay potential

Meep ManDec 31, 201624 votes

The Assassin update aimed at reducing the time it took to kill people

I thought it was INCREASING the kill windows for Assassins? Meaning it takes them longer.

AhristocatsDec 31, 201615 votes

thunderlord is one of the actor of this

whenever i'm lee with thunder lord, press Q+Q+one attack+thunderlord i remove 60% of hp of a squishy or bard, that went from someone with decent damage, to Q+passive+thunderlord removing 50% of hp of a squishy support at lvl 1

doiminat0r3600Jan 1, 20171 votes

Not likely.

Most squishy support champions have ~650 HP at level 1 with ~40 armor/MR meaning 30% resistance.

Bards level 1 Q is 80(+65% AP) damage. 80 * .7 = 56 damage at level 1 just with Q assuming there is no AP on bard at this time.

His passive + AA does 52 + 30 * .7 = 73.

TL at level 1 does 10 damage.

139 damage for all 3 is Not half HP.

It's still kinda insane but it's only for one meep that probably won't be there immediately if the bard helped leash.

Suspicious XebraDec 31, 201613 votes

I enjoy how they said they extended the time it took to kill for assassins to make more counter play, but they seem to not notice that Annie can 100-0 in a heartbeat with her cheap stun combined with tibbers.

6SfoolDec 31, 20161 votes

Well, it's about a heartbeat when she does it, but if measured seconds later it takes about 2 heartbeats.

RavenMagusDec 31, 20166 votes

I like how people jump at Annie (an immobile burst mage), but they fail to mention actual assassins like Nocturne or Lee Sin or most of the "Diver" class.

IncarcerationJan 1, 20176 votes

Well, she is the most infamous example of cancer.

Titanium70Dec 31, 20166 votes

Playing Swain - I fail to see the point of buying a single mana item right now. Everytime he is in this state there's a problem.

Mana is important in longer teamfights - but if 1 spell rotation + 6 seconds tranformed covers an entire TF... well I get out of said TF with full mana due to passive and dangerous game! x'D

The amount of DMG you get from 12-18 masterys alone is bonkers. Let's hope for the next preseason. ^^'

WoonStruckDec 31, 20165 votes

I've been saying this for over a year now.

TBH, I'd like BC, LW, and Void %pen/reduction to be replaced with alternative anti-tank amps and HP/armor/MR retuned on all items.

Create more prolific flat pen itemization and separate HP/resist on itemization a bit more; the HP/resist items are often too efficient for most champs to deal with mid-game so it'll stop the whole "tanks automatically beating any squishy before LW/Void but automatically lose after" thing that leads to tank metas or metas where tanks are hardly viable.

This lets AP top laners function outside of solely feast/famine scenarios too. It would also enable champions that can't make use of %pen items to function in a given meta, such as Jax.

AnielaJan 1, 20175 votes

My favorite thing is watching two meaty tanks or bruisers duke it out for an eternity. N-No sarcasm, by the way, I actually do like it.

AnidanJan 1, 20173 votes

I used to like seeing that, but then I participated in a couple, and then saw some more after that and it really starts to take away from any skill when it goes on past a certain point. There seems to be a bell curve for that kind of thing. If it's too fast, then the only skill is reflex in who can burst faster. If it's too long then tactical manuevering stops mattering as much and becomes tedious simply because it's gone on for too long (this seems to kick in around 7-8 seconds). Somewhere around 3-6 seconds, fights are really exciting to watch (barring teamfights which are exciting for longer, I'm only referring to 1v1s). Watching tanks fight, or fighting another tank as a tank is incredibly boring to me. So much so that if I'm playing a tank and another one walks up to me to try to 1v1 after the early game, odds are high I'll just completely ignore him because unless either of get help, neither of us are likely to actually die and we're just going to spend a lot of time accomplishing nothing.

Pale PirateDec 31, 20164 votes

Let's take a look at the % damage bonus you get from masteries.

2% from sorcery. 5% from double edged sword, 0.0-7.5% with bounty hunter, and up to 5% from battle trance. Target also takes a bonus 2.5% damage if he has double edged-sword. Let's choose the mediocre 5% overall. 5% from merciless if target is below 40% hp. 2% from Assassin.

So, excluding all other damage amplifications like thunderlord's or precision, you can get up to a 14% damage bonus. No wonder how a champion like Syndra who synergizes with these masteries well can oneshot with one spell now.

ElysMustacheDec 31, 20162 votes

When I watch good players play, I'm often impressed at how long the fights last. Because they are actually dodging and peeling, I suppose. They also measure their ability to win the fight more carefully, and continue to measure this throughout the fight. Lower skill players do little to none of this.

AnidanJan 1, 20171 votes

Nothing lasts as long when you're not very good because your enemies, assuming you're matched with your MMR, won't be good enough to position properly to let them live longer, just like you won't. This is also why peeling champions tend to be a bit harder to play in that mmr, because if everyone is going to facetank damage, well, you only have so much peel for people around you so someone gets left behind, and if it comes down to two fed people on your team it's like making a (much less severe) Sophie's Choice.

Nidalee SO NYAAADec 31, 20162 votes

Until ADC's life steal is tone down I feel like only way to kill them is to burst them. I also I like longer team fights but adc right now now are already hard to kill with the all the support items being so strong. I find champs like Akali really hard to play right now just because the targets she needs to kill has a support with buttload of shielding and they have life steal on top of it.

DoktorKaiserDec 31, 20162 votes

Its true, today I 1 shot Kassadin with Skarner, I did have 3 infernals + elder BUT still to 1 shot a semi-tanky person with a triforce DPS tank is dumb af...

HazyCloud7Dec 31, 20162 votes

The Assassin update aimed at reducing the time it took to kill people

What? It aimed at increasing the time it took for assassins to kill priority targets. Anyway this might an unpopular opinion but I think after the addition of courage of the colossus + the current state of healing/shielding damage creep isn't anywhere near the issue people make it out to be. Tanks & divers don't get melted anymore, and if you want to kill a priority target you have to claw your way through redemption + locket + whatever other heal/shields the support throws out + exhaust. Exhaust is so damn effective right now.

I'd take these kind of suggestions more seriously if they were posted by someone that wouldn't benefit from a change like this because of their champion pool.

If you increase the time window for everybody have fun against all the crit scaling adcs later in the game with 20-30% life steal on top of warlord's bloodlust.

ArakadiaJan 1, 20171 votes

The support doesn't always have a sheild, item active, or exhaust to protect you even if they're with you the entire game. Your saying damage creep isn't a problem because of shield creep, which is terrible because those who don't do the most damage or the most shielding are then out of meta completely.

Cosmic WarperDec 31, 20162 votes

I don't know if your title is incorrect purposefully or accidentally. Riot reworked assassins to INCREASE TTK, not decrease it...

ArakadiaJan 1, 20171 votes

Lol, your right.

General Esdeath Jan 1, 20172 votes

I want a game mode where your damage never passes 1,000 to see how the game would be if ALL damage was toned down.

AnidanJan 1, 20171 votes

Who the hell is hitting over 1000 routinely enough on a champion for that to be the magical number? I would've thought League players would want something more in the ballpark of 600-800. Hard enough to be a heavy hit, but not half-health even a squishy immediately, letting them get some sort of retaliation in (assuming they didn't get caught out and die immediately anyway). League's damage numbers are absurd late-game, but 1000 still lets a lot of crazy stuff through.

General Esdeath Jan 1, 20171 votes

Veigar Veigar Veigar Veigar Veigar Veigar Veigar Veigar Veigar Veigar

Unless you mean in a matter of 1-2 seconds?

Anivia Darius Draven Fizz Graves Illaoi Katarina Jayce Kennen Orianna Syndra Talon Veigar Yasuo

AnidanJan 1, 20171 votes

His suggestion wouldn't help those bottom ones, though, because on an individual hit they tend to never blast harder than 1000 against a champion (if even that hard).

The only person it'd really slow down is Veigar, meaning that specific change would do... basically nothing. Toning down damage overall may be nice, though.

TeCoolMageJan 1, 20172 votes

You know, I posted something similar saying that support shielding + healing was balanced around these one shot scenarios and that damage should've been nerfed first so there wouldn't have to be time wasted rebalancing them.

I got downvoted by all the salty support mains thinking I wanted them gutted despite the fact I repeated several times that high damage would be nerfed first to compensate.

I really do want to see a utility meta where utility champions like Anivia, Orianna, Soraka, and Lulu are meta without being that way because of damage or not taking damage like the tank, assassin or marksmen meta.

The only time Soraka was meta was because she countered damage immediately rather than because she provided decent zoning too or because she gave people more uptime where they're split pushing/taking objectives rather than backing and walking. Anivia was only meta because of burst E+R. Lulu was only meta because she synergized with meta champions by stopping them from taking damage or through poke. Even TF was meta because he provided damage once he used ult to flank, not because he could meet a wave to waveclear in a hurry, or because his ult could give his team a good idea of which objective was in immediate danger.

And the best part of this meta is that there won't be many completely useless champions, as utility is immeasurable unlike tankiness where effectiveness is based on the amount of damage you can take, and damage is defined by how close you bring the enemy to death. All champions have a form of utility that is only comparable qualitatively. Katarina zones people by making them flash/walk away from ult, and she zones with daggers, Talon is always there to meet a split pusher or make the carries stick closer to the front line so the tank can peel for them more quickly and LeBlanc is actually one of the ultimate utility assassins with her RR.

In fact, even the top utility champions are nearly incomparable to the non-utility champions in that area. Katarina's daggers change location constantly and can be in multiple places, her damage is front loaded, and it relocates her to a range that requires a response from carries, while Orianna's ball is only in one location, and Orianna herself exerts no pressure on the enemy carries barring a few magic damage autos. The difference is that Orianna's strengths in terms of utility tend to be played more (she uses her ball to actively zone an area she chooses with complete freedom as long as she's in range while Katarina requires herself to be right on top of the area or to position herself relative to an enemy for a perfect dagger placement), not in outright power (Vayne's crits are stronger than Tristana's crits due to Q, end of story).

Asayake 5150glowJan 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You know, I posted something similar saying that support shielding + healing was balanced around these one shot scenarios and that damage should've been nerfed first so there wouldn't have to be time wasted rebalancing them.

I got downvoted by all the salty support mains thinking I wanted them gutted despite the fact I repeated several times that high damage would be nerfed first to compensate.

I really do want to see a utility meta where utility champions like Anivia, Orianna, Soraka, and Lulu are meta without being that way because of damage or not taking damage like the tank, assassin or marksmen meta.

The only time Soraka was meta was because she countered damage immediately rather than because she provided decent zoning too or because she gave people more uptime where they're split pushing/taking objectives rather than backing and walking. Anivia was only meta because of burst E+R. Lulu was only meta because she synergized with meta champions by stopping them from taking damage or through poke. Even TF was meta because he provided damage once he used ult to flank, not because he could meet a wave to waveclear in a hurry, or because his ult could give his team a good idea of which objective was in immediate danger.

And the best part of this meta is that there won't be many completely useless champions, as utility is immeasurable unlike tankiness where effectiveness is based on the amount of damage you can take, and damage is defined by how close you bring the enemy to death. All champions have a form of utility that is only comparable qualitatively. Katarina zones people by making them flash/walk away from ult, and she zones with daggers, Talon is always there to meet a split pusher or make the carries stick closer to the front line so the tank can peel for them more quickly and LeBlanc is actually one of the ultimate utility assassins with her RR.

In fact, even the top utility champions are nearly incomparable to the non-utility champions in that area. Katarina's daggers change location constantly and can be in multiple places, her damage is front loaded, and it relocates her to a range that requires a response from carries, while Orianna's ball is only in one location, and Orianna herself exerts no pressure on the enemy carries barring a few magic damage autos. The difference is that Orianna's strengths in terms of utility tend to be played more (she uses her ball to actively zone an area she chooses with complete freedom as long as she's in range while Katarina requires herself to be right on top of the area or to position herself relative to an enemy for a perfect dagger placement), not in outright power (Vayne's crits are stronger than Tristana's crits due to Q, end of story).

TF will always be meta due to good roaming and the ability to quickly assist his allies.

Earl EulrichJan 1, 20172 votes

hyper tank?

you mean you´re a tank that snowballs and the opponent adc is faar behind?

CaptnJakSparrowJan 1, 20171 votes

I really don't want to go back to tank Rengar meta. But then idk, I suppose I've hated every single meta there has been in this game so far, and I'm not particularly fond of seeing Caitlyn every game.