@Meddler: Is Ashe's new "Can't crit, but gets bonus damage from crit chance" a test?

darkdill··48 votes·29,596 views
Champion Update: Ashe takes aim at PBE

Ashe's kit is getting a SERIOUS change in that she can't critically strike anymore, but still gains bonus damage from crit chance and crit damage modifiers. This sounds like you're testing this first on Ashe so that you might phase out "crit chance" entirely in favor of a non-RNG system on EVERY Champion.

Am I on the right track, or am I jumping at shadows?

131 Comments

RiotMeddler35 votes

We do not have any plans at present to remove Crit or change how it fundamentally works for the game as a whole.

Giving different champions different ways of interacting with it as a stat is something we're interested in exploring further though. That might mean things like a champion who creates a shield for themselves when they crit instead of dealing extra damage, individual champions like Ashe that give up crits entirely for other bonuses, champions with extra crit chance and a CD on how often they personally can crit etc.

darkdill6 votes

Sounds interesting. Any thoughts on CCing an enemy with a crit (with an Udyr-like delay between CC's on the same target)? Or maybe magic damage crits?

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

There's a crossbow in a game called Pillars of Eternity that does this. If you crit you deal 30% less crit damage but the enemy is hobbled (=snared) for a few seconds.

NeoScout4 votes

Please don't say that, keeping crit chance is very hypoCRITical of you guys since you have removed other cool rng stats like dodge

Egyptian3 votes

there are so many threads with red comments on why dodge and crit are very different and interact completely different in the game not her eplease

EverTokki2 votes

I like the plan. Seems like crit can be used in various ways if you'd think like that.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

you´re sort of breaking my heart Meddler.

This is just such a great chance for you guys to finally get rid of that unnecessary RNG that still decides games from time to time regardless of skill. I mean...i like the concept of individual crits and it surly should be thought/persued through, but you really shouldn´t keep the old rng-crit in the game just for the sake of old times.

Flemman1 votes

If you go deep in the crit direction, did you ever imagine, for a support champ, an ability who give a temporary "immune to crit" status like an anti-crit shield or area ability ?(for exemple, putting that on taric ult instead of the ad/ap halo boost)

JustBoneBrook1 votes

{quoted}

We do not have any plans at present to remove Crit or change how it fundamentally works for the game as a whole.

Giving different champions different ways of interacting with it as a stat is something we're interested in exploring further though. That might mean things like a champion who creates a shield for themselves when they crit instead of dealing extra damage, individual champions like Ashe that give up crits entirely for other bonuses, champions with extra crit chance and a CD on how often they personally can crit etc.

Nice idea... but could you rework something to make crit more interesting on TwistedFate to me he should fell like the most lucky man :P so high crit item on his Ad build.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

For that first idea you mentioned, you'd absolutely have to bring back Atma's.

StuffedTurkey0071 votes

{quoted}

We do not have any plans at present to remove Crit or change how it fundamentally works for the game as a whole.

Giving different champions different ways of interacting with it as a stat is something we're interested in exploring further though. That might mean things like a champion who creates a shield for themselves when they crit instead of dealing extra damage, individual champions like Ashe that give up crits entirely for other bonuses, champions with extra crit chance and a CD on how often they personally can crit etc.

Dang it, I hate excessive luck in PVP strategy games.

Celeste Benal4 votes

If they were to make this the norm for all champs, they would have to redesign Ashe again because her passive would be... nothing. So I'm pretty sure this won't happen across the board.

On an aside, I'm glad they are doing this on one champ. It makes Ashe much more unique.

Audiomancy2 votes

She would still have the basic attack slow and would presumably buff it in some way, like allowing it to stack or slow attack speed or something.

darkdill1 votes

Letting her slow enemy attack speed would bring up an old Ezreal problem (back when his W could slow enemy AS): impossible to duel. I think they'd give her a stacking MS slow in such an event.

LeeDark1 votes

In other words, after waiting this long and doing this much to rework Ashe, they'd be prepared... no, they'd have planned ALL ALONG on having to rework her AGAIN when they get rid of crit?

CatSith2 votes

you are jumping the gun. She gets bonus damage % from the crit chance she gets from items. If they remove crit (without crit there is no critical chance), where is her bonus damage is gonna come from?

Sightless6621 votes

The idea isn't just removing crit. It's derandomizing it, so you would have the exact same expected dps but without any randomness. The idea would be having crit serve as a % increase to autoattack damage, just like how Ashe's new passive will work.

CatSith2 votes

her passive isn't derandomizing anything. Having critical chance increases her bonus damage towards slowed targets X% crit chance = X% bonus damage. Are you reading the passive?

Mikal Pikal13 votes

I think you are misunderstanding. Ashe cannot critically hit. No matter what her crit chance is she can't crit. However, she gains bonus damage depending on her crit chance. Therefore, she cannot randomly get lucky and kill someone, but her damage will be the same as someone with the same crit chance over time.

OP is wondering if this is an "experiment" by Riot to eventually replace critical hits altogether since many players don't like the random aspect to it where someone with inferior items can win a duel of AA's just by getting a few lucky crits.

CatSith1 votes

Thats what im telling him lol. Her new passive Requires critical hit chance to gain more bonus damage. They arent removing critical hit yet because champions like Yasuo and Tryndamere passives also is built for it.

Mikal Pikal16 votes

I think the problem is you are using "crit" and "crit chance" interchangeably when they are completely different things. For example, in your first response you said:

If they remove crit, where is her bonus damage is gonna come from?

They DID remove crit for Ashe. Her bonus damage comes from crit CHANCE.

her passive isn't derandomizing her critical chance, its replacing it.

No, it is de-randomizing it. Now instead of a % chance of one big strike she has consistently higher DPS. How is that not de-randomizing critical hits?

They arent removing critical hit because champions like [yasuo] and [tryn] passives also is built for it.

No one is saying they are doing it RIGHT NOW. There have been complaints forever about the random nature of crits and how RNG takes much skill out of the game. That someone with an IE can beat someone with IE and PD just out of pure luck should not happen. OP is speculating that MAYBE Riot is testing ways to use crit chance differently and de-randomize it better. Champs like Yasuo and Tryn could easily be tuned to fit the new system.

Again, I doubt removing critical hits is in the near future, but perhaps it is a project for next season and Ashe is the first test to see how it could work. They have removed other mechanics before in this game such as dodge and weapon passives. I don't see why this is so out of the realm of possibility just because two champs have passives that would require minor tweaks.

CatSith1 votes

my god, Ashe ISNT the first test you guys are delusional lol. Her passive is tied to Critical hits because it requires critical chance for more bonus damage.

Mikal Pikal16 votes

WE GET THAT. WE UNDERSTAND HOW HER PASSIVE WORKS.

Please explain to me how her passive is tied to critical hits when she CAN'T CRITICALLY HIT. If she can't critically hit how is her passive tied to critical hits other than saying she can't get one? Her bonus damage is based on crit CHANCE, but she can't critically hit ever. HOWEVER, her crit chance doesn't give her random spikes in damage, it gives her consistently higher PERCENTAGE BASED DAMAGE INCREASE.

You may not think Riot is going to remove crit. That's fine. But at least admit that IF they were going to remove crits this is one way they could do it without changing things too much. I will try to spell it out for you:

  1. Ashe cannot crit. Ever. Even with 100% crit chance she will not critically hit.

  2. Ashe's damage is increased based on crit CHANCE. Therefore, instead of one arrow dealing a shit ton of damage randomly, all her arrows will do more damage but none will do a shit ton more.

  3. Over time and given the same crit chance Ashe's DPS will be equal to any other adc's.

  4. In a 1v1 fight with just auto attacks, given the same items and runes and masteries, two Ashe's should tie. They should kill each other at the same time because their bonus damage is a set amount. However, in a 1v1 with Ashe and any other adc the winner will depend completely on luck.

  5. Winning a fight based solely on luck is generally frowned upon in this game as strategy and skill should be the difference between winning and losing, not a random dice roll.

  6. Dodge, another luck-based mechanic, was removed for the same reason.

  7. Name another luck-based mechanic in this game other than crit and crit chance. Also, give me a reason (other than Yasuo and Tryn passives) why crit and crit chance is necessary.

  8. IF Riot was going to remove crit chance to make the game less luck-based, THIS is one way to do it. ADC's will still get a percentage increase in damage, but it will be consistent rather than random. If it makes it easier to understand, they will likely call "crit chance" something else completely. Off the top of my head they could call it "weapon mastery." If you get 50% "weapon mastery" each auto is 50% stronger.

  9. Again, no one is saying this is happening RIGHT NOW. Maybe I am missing your point other than "I don't think they will remove crit because crit exists." Assume Riot DOES want to get rid of crit, please admit this is one way they could do that. Given that, why are you so sure they DON'T want to get rid of the last random aspect of this game. Given THAT, why are you so sure this isn't an experiment to see how this change will work in reality.

CatSith1 votes

@3. you cant compare bonus damage and crit damage. if you have 1000 hp and crit does 400 damage vs bonus damage at a constant does 200. IF the RNG is in your favor you will deplete 1000 hp faster. so no they will not do the same damage over time

darkdill8 votes

Welp, we've got a circlejerk argument here.

Agree to disagree?

APrinnyDood3 votes

Uhh... yeah they will. I mean, Crit might get rid of the enemy's HP faster, but it also might get rid of it slower, and it will trend towards hurting the enemy at pretty much the same rate that bonus damage will.

if you have 1000 hp and crit does 400 damage vs bonus damage at a constant does 200.

Can you, like, explain this? Where are you getting 400 and 200 from? I mean, if I had 50 crit on Ashe and she had 100 damage and hit 2 times per second, I'd be doing 300 damage a second, and if I had the same 100 damage and 50 crit and 2 AS on Graves, I'd usually be getting 1 crit for 200 and 1 normal hit for 100, right? And variance would decrease and the number of attacks increased. Looks pretty samey from my point of view.

CatSith1 votes

you cant compare bonus damage and crit damage. if you have 1000 hp and crit does 400 damage vs bonus damage at a constant does 200. IF the RNG is in your favor you will deplete 1000 hp faster. so no they will not do the same damage over time

Im saying if a crit does 400 damage and the bonus damage only does 200 With the RNG in your favor letting you crit more You will do more damage than the bonus damage in the long run.

DEN15 5121 votes

{quoted}

Im saying if a crit does 400 damage and the bonus damage only does 200 With the RNG in your favor letting you crit more You will do more damage than the bonus damage in the long run.

in the long run, the variance will level out so that the damage will be the same over time.

CatSith1 votes

its like when people read they ignore the part that** IF the RNG is in your favor**. In the long run crit will do more than bonus damage it is incomparable.

Hilltop Sunset2 votes

The issue with your math is that your 200 and 400 damage only takes normal crit into account, so what you're measuring is the difference between someone who can crit, and someone who cannot crit under the normal crit rules. What it doesn't take into consideration is that Ashe doesn't crit, but she still does consistent bonus damage based on crit chance

With your math, a champ deals 200 damage without a crit, 400 with it. Let's say they deal this damage at 50% chance. Let's also assume, for the ease of math, that they are attacking at 1.0 attack speed, or 1 attack per second. Using math, we can determine that over 4 attacks you will deal AN AVERAGE OF 2 critical hits and 2 non-critical hits, totalling 400 + 400 + 200 + 200 = 1200 total damage over 4 hits ON AVERAGE.

Now, let's say Ashe deals the exact same base damage, but is using her new critical hit system: with 50% crit chance, Ashe will deal a bonus consistent 50% damage. This means that instead of dealing 200 base damage without crits, or 400 damage with one by chance, she will instead deal 300 damage consistently (200 + 100[50% of 200] = 300). This means that over the course of 4 attacks, Ashe is ALWAYS dealing 1200 damage (300 x 4). Rather than an average, it is a constant.

The difference here is that Ashe will ALWAYS and consistently deal 1200 damage over those 4 hits, whereas in the current crit system, 4 hits could yield anywhere between 800 damage (with 0 crits landed) or 1600 damage (all hits land critically). It's about the difference between dealing damage consistently or dealing damage randomly. The idea is that, over time, the amounts balance due to how CHANCE works over consistent damage, and how math dictates that averages will occur.

CatSith1 votes

@8. Removing crit chance hinders her passive bonus damage.

Kosm1K4 votes

yes, but maybe they'll rework crit chance into simply damage amplification, so that her new passive will scale from that instead and something will be worked out for the rest of the champs.

Maikal6 votes

Do not insult RNGsus, the amount of skill our lord takes out of the game is completely random.

AnysonAcE4 votes

This isn't entirely related to the discussion, however I wanted to thank you for being civil and proper when presenting your side of this debate/argument/whatever you want to label it as. Just wanted to know your positive/patient behavior is appreciated by many members of the league community, thank you! :)

Sightless668 votes

I am reading the passive correctly. I understand it. I will try to explain this more clearly.

For quite a while, the community has wanted to rework the crit system to remove the RNG, and Riot recently weighed in on a discussion about completely reworking the crit system by derandomizing the crit system. To sum it up very quickly, crit is an essential DPS steroid but the RNG on crit is annoying, so we'd like to get rid of the RNG while having crit serve the same role. The proposal is that crit would be reworked to give the exact same dps, but without any RNG. So, if I have 1% crit chance, I'd have 1% increased autoattack DPS (do you see how that is exactly the same as Ashe's X% crit = X% bonus damage?). This same system could be used to get exactly the same DPS for all crit-using champions (Yasuo, GP, whoever). If you don't see how, I can post some math proving this. Only Trynd would have a bit of weirdness, given that he has a non-damage effect that activates specifically on crit, but even that is an easily solved problem.

So, what we're saying is that Ashe's passive looks exactly like what we would expect a derandomized crit system to look like, and we're asking if Riot is using Ashe's passive as a test for potentially reworking crit in the future so that all crit for all champions would function like it does for Ashe (without the reliance on the slow). It looks like that is what they are doing.

Does that make more sense?

CatSith2 votes

You aren't getting it lol. Ashe's new passive cant be a new stepping stone towards removing critical hits. Its tied around items that give a critical hit chance percentages. If Critical hit was removed the items will have to change so they wont give the critical hit percentages anymore. So then where is ashe's passive going to get bonus damage percentage if it required Critical hit chance percentages to be converted? And before removing critical hit they have to rework champions that are tied to building Crit items like Yasuo and Tryndamere, because guess what? they also have passives that are tied to critical hit. Its complicated to remove the RNG that critical hit has because it affects the game in a big way. YES they can remove it but thats gonna take time. So back to my original post HE and YOU are jumping the gun. because ashe isnt an example of "derandomizing", its just a small rework on her kit simple as that.

Sightless669 votes

So then where is ashe's passive going to get bonus damage percentage if it required Critical hit chance percentages to be converted?

Theoretically, she wouldn't have anything special about her passive at that point except the permaslow. The entire idea of the crit rework is changing crit items so that there is no more crit chance, and what was previously crit chance would be autoattack %damage increase (again, this is exactly the same dps, without randomess). She would have crit that works like everyone else's, or to be more accurate, items would be reworked so that all crit works exactly like hers does. Maybe they'd give her something else at some point down the line. Maybe not.

And before removing critical hit they have to rework champions that are tied to building Crit items like and , because guess what? they also have passives that are tied to critical hit.

They don't have to rework Yasuo. He builds crit entirely for the purposes of dps. He doesn't need the RNG. Manipulation of the RNG is not part of his gameplay. A new system that gives the exact same expected dps but without the RNG would give him exactly the same damage, applied in exactly the same way. I would not have to change a single thing about Yasuo to fit him into this system. I can mathematically prove that he would have the same DPS under a derandomized crit system. Trynd is the only potential problem, and even he is easily fixed.

YES they can remove it but thats gonna take time.

No one said it wouldn't. That's why they would have a test with a champion who has a derandomized crit system. Testing to secure data seems like an appropriate step.

ashe isnt an example of "derandomizing"

Yes, she is. This is not debatable. She has a kit that lets her function in exactly the way a derandomized crit system would work. She has a derandomized crit system. You can argue that this doesn't mean that Riot is testing derandomized crit systems for potentially replacing the current crit system, but she absolutely has derandomized crit.

Two questions, to make sure we are on the same page. Do you understand that the derandomized crit system we are talking about would be reworking items to remove crit chance and replace it with a % autoattack damage increase, and do you understand/agree that this new system would not change expected DPS for any champion? If either of these questions sounds odd to you, then I haven't done a good enough job explaining.

CatSith1 votes

Theoretically, she wouldn't have anything special about her passive at that point except the permaslow. She would have crit that works like everyone else's. Maybe they'd give her something else at a point down the line. Maybe not.

??? "She would have crit that works like everyone else's" your argument is about the removal of crit and now this? They wouldn't give her a passive that is tied to crit if she was a stepping stop for its removal.

They don't have to rework Yasuo. He builds crit entirely for the purposes of dps. He doesn't need the RNG. Manipulation of the RNG is not part of his gameplay. A new system that gives the exact same expected dps but without the RNG would give him exactly the same damage, applied in exactly the same way. I would not have to change a single thing about Yasuo to fit him into this system. Trynd is the only potential problem, and even he is easily fixed.

I dont think you understand Crit, the RNG is tied to critical hit. you require the RNG to determine when you get a Critical hit. thats why you get critical hit chance items. 80% critical chance gives you a higher chance for the RNG to determine a critical hit on a target.

Ashe isnt "derandomizing" critical hit because she cant crit. She does bonus damage based on how much critical chance she has.

Sightless667 votes

So, no answers to my questions? It might have helped, because I actually see with this post that we're not on the same page. I don't think you understand the derandomization proposal, so I'm going to try to make it very clear here.

I'll try to explain this again. Let's look at what crit actually is. Right now, on live, 1% critical chance is equal to a 1% increase in autoattack damage, applied randomly. We can prove this mathematically. If I have 100 AD, 10% crit chance, and I attack 10 times, I expect to do 9 hits for 100 damage, and one hit for 200 damage, which is 1,100 damage, which is a 10% increase in damage over the 1,000 I would do if I had no crit chance. So, we agree that it is a 10% autoattack However, I won't always get this damage, because critical strike is random.

Are we good so far? Yes? Alright. So, imagine if I didn't have 10% crit chance, but instead I had 10% increased autoattack damage. Well, let's take a look. If we had 100 AD, 10% bonus damage, and 10 attacks, we would do 110 damage per attack, which would be 1,100 damage after 10 attacks. Do you see how this is exactly the same damage that we got when we had 10% crit chance? The only dps difference between bonus damage and crit, literally the only difference, is that bonus damage can't vary with RNG. Otherwise, they produce exactly the same damage.

So, now that we have established that bonus damage gives exactly the same damage that we expect from crit. We would change items so that crit chance would be completely. Instead of PD giving you 35% critical chance, you would get 35% bonus damage. It's exactly the same expected damage, but without randomness. We could do this to every single item and champion. I personally don't think there would be any problems changing it all today, but Riot obviously would want to test it first, which is where Ashe and her "crit chance = bonus damage" passive comes into play.

And the most important part? THIS IS EXACTLY HOW ASHE IS GOING TO WORK! It's literally exactly the same, except that would be for every champion instead of just her.

So, right now, does that make sense? I'm looking for a yes or no answer here, hopefully with some explanation if the answer is no. Please give one.

Ashe isnt "derandomizing" critical hit because she cant crit. She does bonus damage based on how much critical chance you have.

Which is exactly what the proposal is. Rework crit items so that all crit chance is replaced with bonus damage. The reason we call it derandomizing crit is because it gives exactly the same dps steroid as crit, without the randomess. Yes, it's not technically crit, but we call it that just because we don't have a better name right now. You see how Ashe gets bonus damage from all of her crit chance items? We'd have it so that all items just gave bonus damage instead of crit chance to begin with. That's why I say that all crit would work like Ashe's.

They wouldn't give her a passive that is tied to crit if she was a stepping stop for its removal.

Why not? They need a good test, and there is another part of her passive so she wouldn't be without one if they just changed all crit to work like her bonus damage. They can change something about her in the future if she's lacking after that. Why couldn't this be a test?

I dont think you understand Crit, the RNG is tied to critical hit. you require the RNG to determine when you get a Critical hit. thats why you get critical hit chance items. 80% critical chance gives you a higher chance for the RNG to determine a critical hit on a target.

I understand that perfectly. What have I said that implies differently to you? Quote me, explain yourself and I'll try to explain myself better. Do you want me to explain how Yasuo isn't reliant on the RNG, just the dps steroid? I can prove this mathematically, if you want. Seriously, just ask, and I'll prove that we wouldn't have to change a single thing about him.

So, I'm going to ask the questions I asked earlier again. Please answer them, because they are fundamental to this discussion. Do you understand that the derandomized crit system we are talking about would be reworking items to remove crit chance and replace it with a % autoattack damage increase, and do you understand/agree that this new system would not change expected DPS for any champion? If you don't answer these questions, I'm not continuing this discussion with you. I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point, and I'm not going to do that again unless I know you're making some effort to understand me.

CatSith1 votes

ive said all this already, Critcal hit is tied to the RNG. RNG determines when you crit. Thats why you get items like I E to give you a 20% chance to crit. which means the RNG is more likely to give you a crit. And you keep saying yasuo isnt reliant on RNG when he is reliant on CRITS which is reliant on RNG. how is that hard to understand lol.

Sightless664 votes

Critcal hit is tied to the RNG.

But we can get exactly the same DPS without RNG by turning all crit chance on items into % bonus autoattack damage instead. This keeps it exactly the same as a DPS steriod, without any randomness. Yasuo needs the damage from crits, but he could use a bonus damage system just as well, so he isn't really reliant on the RNG, just the damage. If IE gave 20% bonus autoattack damage and his passive doubled the increase of % autoattack damage, he'd play exactly the same way and be exactly as strong. Once again, I can prove this with math if you want. That's the crit derandomization idea summed up.

The RNG from crit is not necessary to this game. The dps steriod crit gives is. We can have that dps steroid without the RNG, and we can easily change everything to fit the non-RNG model because the DPS is exactly the same.

CatSith1 votes

you are so inconsistent with your argument man and you still dont seem to be grasping what RNG is used for. you cant get the same damage from bonus damage vs damage the RNG determines. Simply changing crit chance on items to bonus auto attack may seem to be a good solution but there are a lot of factors to be taken in. best of luck to you because you don't seem to be able to understand my argument, let alone your own.

LeeDark1 votes

Yes, you are talking about a system in which items no longer say "X% critical strike chance" but "X% bonus autoattack damage." This system would not only require complete reworks for champions like Yasuo and Tryndamere, but would also require another new rework of Ashe, since her "inability to crit but still do bonus damage" still ACTUALLY REQUIRES THAT ITEMS HAVE CRIT ON THEM.

That's what CatSith has been saying in every post. Ashe CANNOT BE a stepping stone or a test to remove crit, because her rework is actually completely dependent on a state of the game that includes items with critical strike chance on them.

Sightless663 votes

This system would not only require complete reworks for champions like Yasuo and Tryndamere

The nice thing is that it actually wouldn't. Well, maybe small changes for Trynd, but Yasuo actually wouldn't need any changes. Yasuo builds crit not because he benefits in any significant way from RNG, but because it is an extremely effective steroid for him. In fact, given that his Q crits, he gets high crit values, and he gets high attack speed, he actually has very low potential variance. He also doesn't do crit-fishing in lane because the shield is so much more important in determining if you can or can't fight. Derandomizing crit wouldn't change his playstyle because it wouldn't change his damage.

That's what CatSith has been saying in every post. Ashe CANNOT BE a stepping stone or a test to remove crit, because her rework is actually completely dependent on a state of the game that includes items with critical strike chance on them.

And if a crit rework came around, then she would lose that part of her passive, still have the permaslow, and maybe get something else. Just because her design exists that way right now doesn't mean it isn't open for change in the future. This doesn't mean she can't be part of a test to remove crit. It may make it less likely, but how much less likely is something you and I are not going to agree on.

LeeDark1 votes

No, what you are basically saying is that maybe, just to test an idea out on live servers, they engineered a new passive for Ashe that would become USELESS if the change to crit you want went live. You want crit to not be dependent on RNG, and doing so would ruin this new Ashe passive completely, making her require another rework after this one.

Riot is perfectly capable of testing ideas without the live servers.

Sightless662 votes

You want crit to not be dependent on RNG,

It's not just that I want it, it is that there were recent discussions with Riot responses about the viability of removing RNG from crit, In which Rioters acknowledged that they aren't fond of it and that the systems team has considered reworks to it in the past. Then, Ashe shows up using the most common idea for such a system would work. That inspires a little hope that they might be looking at a better system.

Riot is perfectly capable of testing ideas without the live servers.

They are capable. Doesn't mean they wouldn't choose to. That's why we asked. We actually got an answer too. The systems team is not actively looking to rework crit, and they did not have an imput on this passive being added to Ashe, but they are observing her and taking data to see if some of their theoretical negatives to non-RNG crit are actually valid concerns.

Abyssphere8 votes

{quoted}

her passive isn't derandomizing her critical chance, its replacing it. Having crit increases her bonus damage towards slowed targets X% crit chance = X% bonus damage. Are you reading the passive?

You are being kind of dense. The language used in this thread to date might not be overly clear but that's because the Ashe passive is a common concept for a crit rework. It removes the RNG of crit chance by removing it and replacing it with a consistent direct substitute. The concept is exactly as with Ashe's passive - a certain amount of crit chance would instead become a certain percentage of AA damage amp. Infinity Edge would replace its crit strike chance with a % AA amp, for example.

It's called a "crit chance rework" because while it removes crit chance, it serves as the direct replacement.

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