Top 5 banned champions in 5.17

Dr Poro·Sep 4, 2015·2 votes·2,062 views

Are Skarner, Heudekaiser, Darius, Garen and Fiora. With winrates ranging from 53% to 64%.

I think the hotfixes were a success.

(⌐□_□)

14 Comments

OmManiPadmeHumSep 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KK63hBKz,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-04T16:09:23.222+0000)

Are Skarner, Heudekaiser, Darius, Garen and Fiora. With winrates ranging from 53% to 64%.

I think the hotfixes were a success.

(⌐□_□)

Try again.... http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=bans&range=daily&map=sr&queue=normal

Top five bans in RANKED are:

Skarner
Mordekaiser
Fiora
Elise
GP

Darius is #7 and Garen isn't even in top 10...

Dr PoroSep 4, 20152 votes

Try harder when correcting someone. I said in the 5.17 patch. Lolking is a database source that isn't used by statisticians for a long time as champion.gg outclasses it in functionality and reliability.

Champion.gg uses information of only the most recent patch. On top of that, it uses information of only plat+ games, which happens to be the brackets that Riot has officially stated they aim towards in terms of balance. Coincidence? (spoiler: no.) Third but not least, it actually has seperate statistics for champions depending which position they go. (Top, jungle, adc, etc.)

Lolking fails in all these 3 pointers:

Uses data from last 7 days which creates a mix of data from 2 patches
Uses all ranked games data which is based on bronze-gold where 80% of the players are
Fails to individualize champion positions for their statistics (which means they can't detect ADC morde's power as it is compensated by the low solo lane Morde winrate.)

The reason your argument is a fail, is because of the first 2 pointers: I said "in 5.17" and Riot doesn't give a jack damn about what silver players ban or their winrate (unless it's completely out of hand).

Critmaster GarenSep 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KK63hBKz,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-09-04T16:52:57.793+0000)

Try harder when correcting someone. I said in the 5.17 patch. Lolking is a database source that isn't used by statisticians for a long time as champion.gg outclasses it in functionality and reliability.

Champion.gg uses information of only the most recent patch. On top of that, it uses information of only plat+ games, which happens to be the brackets that Riot has officially stated they aim towards in terms of balance. Coincidence? (spoiler: no.) Third but not least, it actually has seperate statistics for champions depending which position they go. (Top, jungle, adc, etc.)

Lolking fails in all these 3 pointers:

Uses data from last 7 days which creates a mix of data from 2 patches

Uses all ranked games data which is based on bronze-gold where 80% of the players are

Fails to individualize champion positions for their statistics (which means they can't detect ADC morde's power as it is compensated by the low solo lane Morde winrate.)

The reason your argument is a fail, is because of the first 2 pointers: I said "in 5.17" and Riot doesn't give a jack damn about what silver players ban or their winrate (unless it's completely out of hand).

i pulled this data from championgg. you can see shyvana being the strongest jungler. and darius and garen sit at 54% and 53% winrate and 12% play rate.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.overallPosition&order=ascend

they could probably nerf these champs the next 3 patches and lower divisions would still ban them the next 3 month.

because everything below plat usually just bans the same set of champions that are generally considered op. a lot of people dont even read patch notes. and if a champion is banned a lot is more likely to get banned even more often, just because everyone bans them.

riven is sitting at the same stats garen and darius are while being banned a lot less often. heimer has had higher winrates than them the last couple of month, and no one gave a fuck.

most of the reason why theyre banned so much is because juggernauts are all the rage now. as soon as something new and shiny appears, that would probably change.

Dr PoroSep 5, 20151 votes

because everything below plat usually just bans the same set of champions that are generally considered op.

That's why this site only uses platinum+.

If you think 54% winrate at 12% playrate and 56% banrate (this means you actually have to double the play rate, since he's played in 25% of the games he's not banned) is fine, then I hope that you will never become part of the balance team, in any game.

Heimerdinger is never banned because he's rarely ever played. His winrate is so high because he's only played by heimer mains (he has the highest playerbase avg games in midlane and second highest in top). Bringing him up just makes you look desperate to defend your precious mains with flawed arguments.

OnegarionSep 5, 20151 votes

You need to watch out for even Champion.gg because its not without fault. Mordekaiser WR is still completely fluctuated and over the top because they are only registering about 60% of his games. They aren't listing 40% of the games he is played in and he is only listed in top or adc. Even after looking randomly I can only find the lowest was on Twitch 85% of games reported all under the ADC role. So i'm sorry, but I can't believe that 64% WR mark because of how the games aren't being reported for many morde games.

Critmaster GarenSep 4, 20152 votes

just because people are banning these champs doesnmt mean theyre op... barely anyone has even realized that skarner was hotfixed, and it will take a while for people to get off the hype train.

skarner, darius, and garens winrates are about 53%. the strongest jungler is shyvana right now. not skarner. and mordes winrates arent reliable, since hes not classified correctly in half the cases.

darius and garen both have about 12% playrate. which makes winrates around 53% perfectly acceptable. heimer has been stronger in top lane for month.

Dr PoroSep 5, 20151 votes

Having 12% playrate with 53% winrate is actually pretty damn strong. If you add 50+% banrate to that (meaning you go from 12 times out of 100 being picked to 12 times out of >50) you get a nice statistical recipe for what's called broken.

And yeah, I know that banrate is by no means a sign of who is OP (just who is most hated) that's why I added a line about their winrates to say it's not just bans.

"strongest jungler shyvana"? She has 50% winrate. Champion.gg takes stuff like damage dealt and CS into account, which shyvana obviously has way more by her design and playstyle. 5 out of top 7 "role position" junglers are devourer champs because they're good at farming and dealing dmg, which is rated high by this site. On top of that, devourer is actually broken and will be nerfed next patch.

It has no use defending your precious champs, they will get nerfed next patch. Probably not hard enough, though.

Critmaster GarenSep 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KK63hBKz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-09-05T21:30:47.241+0000) It has no use defending your precious champs, they will get nerfed next patch. Probably not hard enough, though.

12% playrate is nothing unusual. 53% winrate with 12% playrate is perfectly acceptable. the banrate doesnt matter. the amount of games played are still enough to pinpoint their winrate fairly accurately.

heimer isnt just picked by heimer mains. hes actually really freaking strong.

darius is getting slight nerfs. he doesnt need much and i dont expect more to come than the slight mana nerfs on his q and the heal change. a change like that alone can put a champ down by 2 or 3%

no idea about skarn. he might see a slight nerf in 5.19 if his winrate increases with devourer junglers tuned down. garen is absolutely fine. 53% winrate is stong but not op. he doesnt require further nerfs.

Dr PoroSep 4, 20151 votes

Jokes aside, can we have a second badge of hotfixes? Skarner and Garen need slightly more nerfs, Fiora and Darius were overbuffed. Mordekaiser is a disaster. Yes, I know there are changes to kaiser and fiora for 5.18 but I can't wait 2 weeks for balance to return and the kaiser changes are far from enough to tackle his 64.59% winrate dominance. I know the sample isn't that huge, but 64% winrate on 2689 games is signficant. If a player with plat V MMR gets this winrate over the course of 2689 games, he's number 1 challenger.

AbyssphereSep 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KK63hBKz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-04T16:13:40.221+0000)

Jokes aside, can we have a second badge of hotfixes? Skarner and Garen need slightly more nerfs, Fiora and Darius were overbuffed. Mordekaiser is a disaster. Yes, I know there are changes to kaiser and fiora for 5.18 but I can't wait 2 weeks for balance to return and the kaiser changes are far from enough to tackle his 64.59% winrate dominance. I know the sample isn't that huge, but 64% winrate on 2689 games is signficant. If a player with plat V MMR gets this winrate over the course of 2689 games, he's number 1 challenger.

Eh, I mean you say it yourself - the hotfixes were a complete mess. I'd rather they just stop hotfixing stuff quickly and use the general patch cycle.

Dr PoroSep 4, 20151 votes

Hotfixes are fine, but they have to be more careful. Skarner hotfix: THANK GOD THEY DID THIS, can you imagine 65% winrate for a whole patch??? He was still too strong after the hotfix, but leaving him like that for a whole patch would be way worse. It's also easier to see where to go from after the hotfix as going from 65% winrate to 47-53% winrate in one step is rather difficult. Garen hotfix: I think this was a very spot-on hotfix. Garen was too strong, instead of nerfing the damage, they nerfed his speed so he can't apply damage as often. Turns out he's still a little bit too strong. (Edit: seems like he wasn't included in the hotfixes, even though Meddler said he would.) Fiora hotfix: Disaster. They should've done half of those buffs, not all of them at once. Darius: Same as fiora.

Problem seems to be that they are way too enthousiastic with the hotfix buffs. They just need to tune that down.

Hotfixes are supposed to bring them closer to 50%, not swing them to the other side of the winrate list.

OmManiPadmeHumSep 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KK63hBKz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-04T16:13:40.221+0000)

Jokes aside, can we have a second badge of hotfixes? Skarner and Garen need slightly more nerfs, Fiora and Darius were overbuffed. Mordekaiser is a disaster. Yes, I know there are changes to kaiser and fiora for 5.18 but I can't wait 2 weeks for balance to return and the kaiser changes are far from enough to tackle his 64.59% winrate dominance. I know the sample isn't that huge, but 64% winrate on 2689 games is signficant. If a player with plat V MMR gets this winrate over the course of 2689 games, he's number 1 challenger.

And you can't go by bans to assume the champ is overpowered. On Bard release he was perma banned simply because the majority of people that play this game (Bronze-Gold), didn't understand him and just banned. And he was AWFUL on release.

Garen, has always been tanky...nothing new there...but they cap to his MR and armor is a joke. The villian thing is too gimmicky. why on earth give a top solo laner extra damage for a champ most likely not even near him?? (i.e. typically first bloods come from mid or bot)

Darius. The Q delay is annoying and the removal of the slow hurts. The bloodrage thing is cool...when you are vs bots...there is never a time they are all grouped up enough to get 5 attacks in on one person before you die. lol

Skarner. Yep, His new E is pretty boss and he can stick to you...but I still think the Crystals are a waste.

Mord. Dragon thing too gimmicky. cool when you have it...but there are MANY games you just get zoned out of getting drag...and when there is a mord...the other team tries REALLY hard to get all drags. the Q buff was nice and the E buff incoming is nice.

Honestly, in my last games, I have had more issues with Yasuo's, Vayne's, and Fiora's than ANY of the juggernauts.

Dr PoroSep 4, 20151 votes

Did you miss my second sentence? I'll repeat it for you.

With winrates ranging from 53% to 64%.

BTW: I completely agree with Yasuo and Vayne, they were my perma bans before 5.16.