Can Eve PLEASE have some AD scaling?

DynamiteGazelle·Sep 26, 2017·137 votes·6,367 views

One of my favorite things about Eve has always been her build diversity. She can go AD/AP/Hybrid and be viable in different ways. I (and probably at least half the Eve fanbase) have been going AD for YEARS now, so why not try to please both crowds?

All you need is AD ratios on Q and Ult, then give E both AD and an attack speed steroid like old Eve. And it's fine to make Ad ratios a little weaker because it's made up for by auto attacks.

I can't imagine it would make her too much harder to balance, and Dog knows we need more hybrid champs besides <----this guy

123 Comments

DessemSep 26, 201735 votes

Draktharr Evelynn in her current state is incredibly good. At least, that's how she's felt to me; like a real assassin, even, with a proper AD build.

Since her E does magic damage now, I fear AD Evelynn won't be as good any longer. Sure, she'll apply on-hit effects, but with the loss of her attack speed steroid, and a new reality where she'll do only magic damage, armour pen won't be worthwhile on her and opponents can more easily itemise against her.

I feel that as it currently stands, Evelynn loses build flexibility. Previously we could build AD if we faced heavy Anti-AP opposition, or wanted to tap into the assassination line of items. Now, it looks like the build path is more "solved" in that we buy whatever AP items are good for AP assassins. Since her Passive lost Mana recovery, we might also be locked into Runic Echoes to solve any mana issues she might have, unless they've loosened up on that. Since I haven't seen scalings numbers yet, it's still possible we'll get to tap into AD Evelynn as before.

I just fear she won't be as valid a choice as she is now. Certainly easier to balance, and it won't temper my love for her, but I would've loved to see that option intact.

I suppose I'm also a bit disappointed Evelynn went from being a champion that required strategic insight and less on the direct mechanics to a champion reliant on skillshots, but that's my inner Bronze scrub talking. This ought to at least allow us to express mastery better, though it looks like we'll still need to be as skilled at utilising our stealth as before.

CorriandrSep 26, 201726 votes

I'll agree with this. Eve was one of the few champions that still had dual scalings. Let her keep it.

Weiss GuertenaSep 27, 201720 votes

Riot... keeping an alternate build alive in a champion rework?

HAHAHAHAHAHA Nice joke.

But seriously, they write paragraphs about how they are all for build variety and then methodically and deliberately remove those builds when the rework actually hits, without fail every time.

EDIT: It's official boys and girls, 0 AD scalings in her kit - not even on a spell which applies on-hit effects. Another build bites the dust. Yay for variety!

DynamiteGazelleSep 27, 20175 votes

Truth.

Shadow HazardSep 27, 20173 votes

they did it for WW.

Overlord MadgeSep 27, 20171 votes

[deleted]

ZarZufSep 27, 20173 votes

I agree :/ I was really hoping in a warwick style rework :/

Overlord MadgeSep 26, 201717 votes

We need an AD scaling ASAP! I've played her over 1,000 times over the past 2 seasons. I don't want to see her AD scalings go. Her old Q and E had them, just those would be enough. AD Evelynn players still make up a great amount of her playerbase. Even if AP is way more popular, as a long time Evelynn main, please fix this riot.

RebonackSep 26, 201714 votes

I always preferred AD over AP Eve. Having a Skirmisher or a Diver jump you from stealth is a lot less awful to deal with than having to put up with massive AP burst from stealth.

NineTailedMysticSep 26, 201711 votes

Implying AD Eve didn't burst

CowseedSep 26, 20176 votes

Not like AP though. You'd see you're health bar rapidly going black but never really bursting persay.

Sexy Jack RabbitSep 27, 20173 votes

It did, but it was more made up of consistent damage over bursty AD.

YumaS2AstralSep 27, 20173 votes

But at same time, AD Eve is also a lot tankier

SpecterVonBarenSep 27, 20172 votes

Twitch Rengar Talon Shaco

Really? You're going to tell me it feels any different when one of those guys kills you from stealth than Evelynn or Teemo ?

RebonackSep 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Really? You're going to tell me it feels any different when one of those guys kills you from stealth than or ?

Yeah, look at all those Divers!

Season 1 Eve had Ravage for burst damage. That was it. Everything else was sustained damage from her Ult and Q. She was a Diver/Skirmisher hybrid. The first Eve remake followed the same pattern with a little more burst and a little less sustained damage.

SpecterVonBarenSep 27, 20172 votes

I literally took every AD champion that can jump you from stealth except for Khazix who I forgot and is an assassin and MonkeyKing who I also forgot.

Literally the only champion that is AD, has a stealth and classifies as a diver is freaking Wukong! You don't know what the hell you're talking about! And neither Divers nor Skirmishers were a thing back then. Those are recent classifications.

RebonackSep 27, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I literally took every AD champion that can jump you from stealth except for who I forgot and is an assassin and who I also forgot.

Literally the only champion that is AD, has a stealth and classifies as a diver is freaking Wukong. You don't know what they hell you're talking about!

Allow me to rephrase, then.

I'm saying I think Eve plays best as a Diver. Divers typically have less damage (but more CC and durability) than Assassins. They also lack a focus-break to get them out of combat.

You responded by saying that being burst from stealth is awful whether it is from an AP or AD champ.

I agree.

Hence I feel Eve would be most healthy as a Diver rather than an Assassin. And why I commented, sarcastically, look at all those Divers! to your post. Because I felt you were missing the point, as you still are.

PopcornBunniSep 26, 20178 votes

My favorite playstyle for her has been applying on-hit effects from her E+AS steroid. item 1418 item 3091 item 3153 would feel so good combined with her new innate MR reduction and execute Ult, if only E applied several on-hit effects in a second-and-a-half duration.

Her E still hits once for effects, but it's going to be a lot different without the double hit and steroid following.

I'd also agree E should get AD scaling on-par with her AP scaling. Her Q would be fine with a lower AD scaling, so each build would have different focuses for damage. Not sure about giving it to Ult at all though. If she built AD/On-hit she'd have good consistent damage to get targets to execute range reliably, which could be a bit much if her ult had AD scaling on top of that.

Hello I am BirdSep 27, 20172 votes

It's been so long since I've jungled I've actually forgotten that Bloodrazor was a thing and I thought that you pulled devourer out of your ass

AhrisSep 27, 20178 votes

It is going to be hard to balance.

FluffiestEeveeNASep 27, 20177 votes

I have been playing AD Eve since season 2. I support this with all of my heart. Thank you. Note my name. eEVEe.

DynamiteGazelleSep 27, 20175 votes

Keep fighting the good fight compadre. We gotta get AD back!

KennysDreamGirlSep 27, 20172 votes

Have they even said that the ad ratios are gone? Not trying to flame the post, I'm honestly curios. I don't play eve much (but when this drops I'm gonna be all over her) and I never have tried an ad build the few times I have

DynamiteGazelleSep 27, 20173 votes

Everything we've seen seems to point to the conclusion that they are indeed gone. But hey, if it turns out I'm wrong I'll delete the post and bow down to the Riot overlords. I'm not hopeful though..

ThunderneedleSep 27, 20177 votes

The beauty of Eve is that you CAN build her full AP squish, AP bruise , hybrid squish, AD bruise or even full tank.

Your team messed up in champ select and picked 3 AP alongside your Eve? That's a nice warrior trinity.

They picked no tank or hard engage? Hello Iceborn abyssal!

Enemy team took 4 squishy's? Wonderful go AP assassin and oneshot all of them.

Their 4 squishy wisened up and got Magic Resist? Get a duskblade, and still oneshot them.

Enemy team has 4 tanks? A bit unorthodox but you could even opt in to bloodrazor blade of the ruined king + tank. Or you go liandry abyssal.

The best part about Eve is having options. The only trap here is half assing a build ( getting dps when building burst and not having sustain to use the dps)

I mainly build hybrid, AP squishy. But I've had great success with full armour eve against 4 enemy duskblade (ab)users. Part of the mastery in Eve is knowing and using her options. I will be very sad and maybe stop playing Eve if they take this from her.

She is one of the 6 remaining hybrids! Keep her uniqueness!

lolipopevelynnSep 26, 20176 votes

whats the point? even if they give it to her it will be the same situation as AP trist or AP ww or AP sion, still doable but not nearly as effective as it once was.

she lost her AS steroid, so even if they give her AD ratios it wouldnt really work like it once did.

DynamiteGazelleSep 26, 20176 votes

The point is a lot of people like the AD playstyle. She's been able to successfully build either way in the past so why not now?

DoozkuSep 27, 20176 votes

I don't see why people always freak out so much about having AD and AP ratios on every champion. The way I see it, what icon you click on doesn't really affect the playstyle. If Eve is building Duskblade or if she's buiding protobelt, she's still and assassin and the gameplay doesn't change. Of course if it were something like AP Kog or AP Trist I'd understand. But AD Eve is (supposed to be) a squishy assassin and AP Eve is (supposed to be) a squishy assassin.

RebonackSep 27, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I don't see why people always freak out so much about having AD and AP ratios on every champion. The way I see it, what icon you click on doesn't really affect the playstyle. If Eve is building Duskblade or if she's buiding protobelt, she's still and assassin and the gameplay doesn't change. Of course if it were something like AP Kog or AP Trist I'd understand. But AD Eve is (supposed to be) a squishy assassin and AP Eve is (supposed to be) a squishy assassin.

I suspect most people are complaining about Eve not being workable as an AD Diver anymore. That's what she's been over the majority of her lifetime as a champion.

Basically, Eve's playerbase is split between AP Assassin players and AD Diver players. And since Riot gets off on destroying alternative builds, one of them was going to go. No matter what Riot did with Eve, quite a few people were going to get upset.

DoozkuSep 27, 20175 votes

Yeah, I don't see how they could have worked AD Eve into this kit without sacrificing the cohesion of the kit as a whole. One of the big appeals of these old champions is often that they have multiple unique build options and playstyles that are completely distinct from each other. But these usually come at a cost of having an in-cohesive kit and often a poorly designed kit. (case in point, old Sion )

I don't see how they could have put old AD Eve on this kit. She needed that auto-reset and the tankier shield to function, where are parts of the kit that would just not function on an AP Assassin at all.

RebonackSep 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I don't see how they could have put old AD Eve on this kit. She needed that auto-reset and the tankier shield to function, where are parts of the kit that would just not function on an AP Assassin at all.

I was specifically begging Riot not to make her an Assassin. We already have a couple 'burst-from-stealth' champions and they're all notoriously awful to play against. And I'm not really a fan of them since I've always felt that they lack nuance, I guess?

I would have been really happy with Diver Eve or Skirmisher Eve if we want to keep her squishy. Like, if I could get Season 1 Eve with the rework Eve's passive and W? I would absolutely take that in a heartbeat.

MalrothDragoniaSep 27, 20171 votes

Riot has stated that she's supposed to be a diver, not an assassin in this rework.

RebonackSep 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Riot has stated that she's supposed to be a diver, not an assassin in this rework.

Which is a weird thing to say since she has a focus-break (Ult) and no durability tools, which are the main points of difference between Divers and Assassins.

Teridax68Sep 27, 20175 votes

I agree, giving Evelynn AD ratios to her damage, with emphasis on her Q bonus damage rather than any other sort of burst, and perhaps even an AD ratio to her health regen, could allow AD DPS Eve to survive, without necessarily affecting her main build. I mostly like her new kit, but I feel it could easily accommodate hybrid scalings, and I'd be interested in seeing those happen still.

NielarkenSep 27, 20174 votes

For all the people saying its because of balance issues why are akali, ez, and Jax still in the game?

AnonagonSep 27, 20178 votes

Because they haven't had major reworks yet

Chaos Milk TeaSep 27, 20177 votes

lol Akali is FUCKED up. She's an unbalanceable classless mess that teeters between garbage and toxic beast. She'll become balanced for a few patches only to tip back over once something slightly changes around her.

Hybrid damage tends to be fine on DPS champions. Kayle, Jax, etc are built to spit out high, difficult to mitigate damage over time.

Burst damage shouldn't have the same "can't build against it" kind of effect. Tanks should have clear options for building against assassins, where as they should have trouble reducing the damage of DPS champions. In a way, making an assassin hybrid goes against the class' purposeful weaknesses and lets Evelyn have more upfront burst against squishies.

RStalinSep 26, 20173 votes

Her E still applies on hit effects. You'll have to just actually build AS now.

DynamiteGazelleSep 26, 20177 votes

Yeah but the point is AD build isn't viable because her abilities as they are currently have no AD scaling. We just want it back, that's all. No reason she can't go AD as well as AP

YumaS2AstralSep 27, 20172 votes

We aren't really sure. Fizz never had AD scalings and there have been times he has been viable AD.

Pre-rework Tristana also didn't had AD ratios at all and her most powerful and popular build by far was AD.

Chromatic EagleSep 27, 20172 votes

I'm not saying don't ask for this, but have we been given a reason why they haven't added a ad build?

AbyssphereSep 28, 20172 votes

Yes. They didn't want her kit having sustained damage, basically.

GaliöSep 27, 20171 votes

Im down if they give Galio back his healing and +90 armor

RebonackSep 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Im down if they give Galio back his healing and +90 armor

I feel you.

Before all this nonsense started, Eve, Malz, and Kog were my most played champions. Eve is gone, Malz has been ruined, and it's probably only a matter of time before Riot 'fixes' Kog, too.

Honestly at this point, I kinda wish Riot had never set out on this 'updated/rework' crusade. All it has managed to do is remove champions from the game and reduce the number of meaningful choices players can make once in the game.

Sraeg2013Sep 27, 20171 votes

You've been going AD Eve for years, because Riot changed her E to deal physical damage (and something about on-hits on it, iirc).

RebonackSep 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You've been going AD Eve for years, because Riot changed her E to deal physical damage (and something about on-hits on it, iirc).

I built her Trinity/Tanky back in Season 1 before she had any AD ratios at all.

Swear to God rampant AD ratios are one of the worst things that happened to this game. It was called Ability Power for a reason.

Bears Dont CareSep 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I built her Trinity/Tanky back in Season 1 before she had any AD ratios at all.

Swear to God rampant AD ratios are one of the worst things that happened to this game. It was called Ability Power for a reason.

Yeah...because the programming of the game didn't allow AD to apply to abilities.

RebonackSep 27, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEIsGYEq,comment-id=002700000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T16:25:48.712+0000)

Yeah...because the programming of the game didn't allow AD to apply to abilities.

Yes it did. Kat's old Bloodthrister build wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

The problem was that percentile armor pen only worked with stuff that applied OnHit effects. Once Riot ironed that out around New Years of Season 1, they started throwing AD ratios on everything.

The old split between AP and AD basically gave you two champs for one on every single champion. You could focus on auto-attacks or abilities, depending on what the game called for (or what was more fun). But Riot has since decided that allowing champs to build more than one way is wrongbadfun and have been systematically removing such options every time they do a full VGU.

Sraeg2013Sep 27, 20172 votes

http://st.elohell.net/public/chill/8916c8a7b33e8a3f8e6d76f5e9d7cfa3.jpg