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Complaints about how the team is playing, is not the same thing as flaming.

MrNuclearPumpkin·May 31, 2017·132 votes·3,634 views

There's a lot of crap going on with how players accept negative responses to their gameplay. And immediately accept anything other than GJ!!! as flaming.

If a player is making a reasonable complaint about how the team is playing, then it's reasonable. For instance. "You guys really need to focus a single target instead of splitting on too many champs." If there is to be any sort of communication, then you have to be willing to accept negative responses as well as the positive. As long as the negativity is said to try and make you play better instead of trying to tear you down aka tilt you.

If the support is saying, "You're playing too aggressive. You need to stop trying to 1v1 the 7/0 Vayne while you're at 3/6." They're not flaming you. They're telling you something you should already know, but apparently you're ether too arrogant to accept that you can't win a fight....or just dumb.

Same thing, if the ADC is telling the support that they're playing too passively and that they've missed a few kills that you could have gotten if you had played up a little harder, that's also not being a flamer. They're trying to win and they want you to play better in order to win.

If you guys are so sensitive that you're willing to throw the game because of one person telling you what you're doing wrong, you need to grow up and thicken up your fragile strawberry vanilla skin.

118 Comments

Asayake 5150glowMay 31, 201732 votes

Yeah, it sucks when you tell your Syndra mid who just died for the 6th time to play more defensive, maybe build a Banshees, and then they basically tell you to fuck off, stop being a dick. And then they build a banshees.

Mr NoggenfoggerMay 31, 20172 votes

Even worse if they don't build the banshee's isn't it?

Asayake 5150glowMay 31, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=XIron RevenantX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEEs3vt9,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-05-31T19:24:55.404+0000)

Even worse if they don't build the banshee's isn't it?

Yeah, at least the Syndra stopped dying.

But hypocrite much?

PoskeMay 31, 20171 votes

Thats like bulding Ga first item on yasuo so that you stop dying

If you are gonna give a tip atleast dont suggest something autistic

Building defense while behind is generaly a mistake

Glory ln DeathMay 31, 201718 votes

Except, you know, Banshee's is a hybrid offense/defense item that is really strong right now and ought to be a mage's 2nd or 3rd item, anyways, if they're up against an AP champ.

statelesskillerMay 31, 201717 votes

building defensive . . . while behind . . . is a mistake . . .

WHAT?

like unless your champion REQUIRES a item to function (gangplank and triforce for example) its ENTIRELY OKAY. and EXPECTED for you to build defensive if you are behind. you arent going to do anything if you keep dieing. so you might as well make it harder to die.

LimrickMay 31, 201711 votes

Bjergsen says to build damage if behind so you can at least contribute to the team. If a teamfight breaks out and you do no damage because you rushed defense, then you aren't helping at all. Unless you die like 3 times and there's still more laning phase to go through, you should just keep building normally so you aren't dead weight. Now, you should obviously play safer, but building defensive achieves nothing.

3TWarriorMay 31, 20172 votes

gold makes it a fairly balanced rank, but it would depend upon the player in question and their team. For such ranks, it would probably be better to play champions that can handle situations where it is not a 1 on 1 fight instead of trying to alter ingame behavior

statelesskillerMay 31, 201710 votes

i am entirely willing to say bjergersen is wrong this time. you are dead weight if you die instantly. you are infinitely more valuable alive then dead.

PoskeJun 1, 20173 votes

Thats 2 players who reached challenger telling you not to build defense when behind on a carry, what more do you want?

Bjergsen is 100% right

If you want some defense go double doran

You guys just have a wrong way of looking at it.

Last time I had my teammate suggesting something retarded was when They told me to get old abysall against annie/syndra while I was playing le bl

As one of the best le bl players consistently in the world. ABYSALL IS COMPLETE TRASH ITEM FOR LE BL

Had I went that I wouldnt be able to kill anyone and I would still die to annie/syndra

We lost that game anyway but I was impactful despite being behind. Didnt manage to dodge annie tibbers despite dashing around her and baiting it like a madman because player had reflexes of potato); He admited to me that he couldnt aim me I was dashing every 0,2 seconds

Annie killed me 3 times this way. My predictions on her tibbers cast werent off, she wasnt even patient... she just couldnt aim me so after I dashed 4 times around over her .. then she stunned me );

If I were up against better annie player I would ironicly juke her ultimate while deleting her

Other then losing 1vs1 to annie couple of times after not going abysall (Woudlnt do anything if she stuns i am dead,,, ) I was useful.

There are items who are worth rushing for defense Hexdrinker... (This item singlehandledly is a reason why you ll never see double mage botlane) You can stack dorans Black cleaver if you are riven but this is her core ...

thats kinda it

Armguards are to underwelming

If you are playing a carry (AP,AD,MELEE) and if you are behind defense is bad

statelesskillerJun 1, 20173 votes

old abyssal? trash item on lb? i . . . again i think you are just being stupid

its a item that gave you cdr. defensive stats. DAMAGE. and a magic damage steroid. either it was the %incease or the flat MR shred. either way thats a great item for a assassin meant to deal tons of upfront damage and who needed to get close to do it. you know old leblanc that W qq you. sure the current one it wouldnt be good because its more about kiting with your chains and keeping your distance

i just cant fathom why anyone would want to build damage when they are getting dicked. its the worst thing you can do. its literally saying "i cant kill you but i will try anyways even when im behind and keep dieing"

"oh but you can play safe and wait" if your plan was to play safe you shouldn't have died to begin with. you typically avoid dieing at all, not dieing put behind AND THEN play safe

and before you say "but im consistently best LB NA i know my champion hurr durr. bjergersen is the best midlaner NA he knows better then you, he is challenger hurr durr" no. NO. i dont care who you are. no matter how experienced you are capable of being wrong. if you think being behind means you have to build glass cannon you are some kind of stupid

ChaoticPineconeJun 1, 20172 votes

Bjerg isnt wrong, but you have to remember that its Bjerg. He generally isnt behind in a 1v1, he plays high damage champions that carry, and he is good enough to fight his way back into the game if he gets camped. Meaning that if he plays a champion like Syndra, chances are he can be 3/7 but still have land enough damage to one-combo a squishy and carry a fight. If someone like Bjerg decided to build defensive, youre basically taking away his main contribution to the team - he wont die as fast, but he wont have the damage to delete a carry and win the fight.

QT says the same thing too - because its QT. If you build offensive, at least you can hope for a perfect fight or stalling the game out until you get the 3-4 items you need. If you immediately start building defensive, what will you do? Youre just stalling your damage on a champion that doesnt do anything but provide damage. It help you survive longer, but it doesnt really help you survive. You will eventually just get chased down because you dont do enough damage to kill the enemy team.

Its different if youre playing Shen or Galio, who like one offensive item but doesnt need it. Or even a champion who has multiple buildpaths like Jarvan, Vi, or Lee. But if youre playing a carry and all you can provide is damage, then build damage. Dont buy a Locket or something on Syndra just to help you survive.

Chembaron YamadaJun 1, 20172 votes

I get the feeling that you are misunderstanding "building defense" in this context. Of course no one expects Syndra to build a locket.

But all carry classes have some defensive items, which still provide damage. Locket is clearly not one of them, it just gives resistances and a shield on active.

For AP champs, defensive items would be stuff like these: item 3102 item 3157 These items still contribute to your damage, but at the same time give you some defensive mechanics so you won't die over and over again in lane.

For AD champs: item 3812 item 3139 item 3046 item 3072

If people tell you you should build defensively first, they aren't telling you to build tank items. They tell you that you should build some of the defensive items given to your carry role.

ChaoticPineconeJun 1, 20171 votes

Even if its with a Banshees, you have to ask yourself - why would you build a Banshees and not a Deathcap?

If the enemy is 6/0 and has more than enough damage to blow you up, 45 MR isnt going to cut it (and the long cooldown on the shield can be popped pretty easily by most champs). If the Banshees helps you mitigate enough damage to survive/turn a fight (like if youre 1/3), of course its the best option. But if youre going to get popped anyway cause youre 0/6, whats the point of getting Banshees? You might as well get more damage.

SauceyapplesJun 2, 20171 votes

If you have 2s to live, might as well do as much damage as you can in two seconds. If you get popped instantly though... You're probably not going to win the game anyways. At least with more damage you can poke more or possibly get a pick on one of the weaker champs in the match.

Fuh QueueMay 31, 201717 votes

There's just a very fine line when it comes to offering advice. The reason I say this is because everyone in my games is roughly the same skill level. So this will lead people to be hesitant when it comes to taking advice.

I usually try my best to keep people positive and offer anything I can. But as a jungler I always get the "I'VE BEEN GANKED 98764 TIMES FKING GANK MID"

And I'm here thinking "Perhaps you should stop auto shoving the lane so I can help?"

Whut Thuh May 31, 20173 votes

ay yes the classic, and then when you do gank they either go to deep or barely go at all and you're left alon vs their laner

3TWarriorMay 31, 20172 votes

had a top laner once that tried to duel Jax and I had to baby sit them the entire game (way back in season 5 and before when jax was a much more effective pick)

they would have died 4x by 5 minutes into the game, they insult me, I leave, and less than 30 seconds later, they die to Jax.

Meanwhile, the opposing jungler got to free-stomp bottom lane and assist mid and the soon fed Jax only helped the game end faster XD

TwinkieProMay 31, 201717 votes

Its a team effort of a game. Your choice of words deeply impacts how your team perceives what you say. Try including yourself when ever speaking about a team issue, even if you aren't necessarily causing issues.

"we need to focus on a target together." "We should team fight more, we have a good combo." "the enemy flanks a lot, let's ward up the entrances of the jungle."

Try your best to not make your teammates feel singled out or bashed for their playstyles, but try to suggest ways of strengthening your teams cohesion.

Whut Thuh May 31, 20178 votes

this i found works emmensly well, as well as before you type anything, anything at all, think to yourself 'will this impact my teammates gameplay in a positive way' and if the answere is no. you dont say it. ive pulled people out of fits of tilt to win games and its made league alot more enjoyable for me as a whole, since i dont get flamed often

Titanium70May 31, 20176 votes

This one gets it! +1

MarshbouyMay 31, 201714 votes

"Please build some armor items" "fuck off asshole"

aight guys

philosiferJun 2, 20171 votes

especially when the enemy have no AP and they insist on rushing that MR item cause some guide suggested it

Acheron16May 31, 201712 votes

"Stop being so greedy! No matter how much you ping, I wont dive with you in a 2v5"

"GG, report X for flaming."

korg023May 31, 20173 votes

or "omg why you went there,you are so greedy man" "stfu noob and follow me next time"

Jo0oMay 31, 201711 votes

But the opposite is true, too: most criticism tends to be aggressive and inflammatory, and very few people that actually "give advice" to their teammates are doing so for the right reasons.

Shit, if I lose a narrow 1v1 with my opponent limping away at 10 hp, you aren't helping me by telling me to "stop feeding" or something. It's pointless and condescending.

I had a somewhat recent game as a Naut support where my ADC blamed me for missing kills due to playing too passive, and he was honestly clueless and full of shit. Kept pinging me when my moves were on CD and stuff, like my hook is always going to be up. Literally telling me when to auto, as if I'm not autoing. And if I animation-cancelled with my W, he'd honestly not believe me when I said I auto'd and blame me for not applying my passive, even when I did. It was ridiculous, especially since I played really well and had a huge part in us winning.

My point is, "complaints" and criticism are often just pointless in this game. You are personally welcome to be better than that, of course, but that's my view on it.

3TWarriorMay 31, 20173 votes

I've played Nunu support and chogath support in normal games. Had one teammate like it so much they gifted me a skin XD

Chogath was really good at aggressive plays for a support back then and nunu can annoy anyone with free movespeed and attack speed stats along with surviving, healing with item 3302 items, poke damage and etc

this is an opposite of your situation thing, but i've had people just freak out before too, "you're the one that told me to play thresh, a champion I have never played before and you are also the one to fail every engage, push the lane too far ahead when the enemy jungler is nearby and play aggressively at low health, complaining when I can't heal you because "heal" is still on cooldown"

it's one of the worst lanes

ModFrom The CosmosMay 31, 20175 votes

It's all about how you approach your comments. People who are already on tilt are not exactly receptive to feedback, especially if you don't have the KDA yourself to back it up. They wouldn't necessarily listen to a 1/9/3 Vayne telling the team to do baron vs a 13/2/7 Kled who is carrying the game asking people to group.

One of the biggest issues I see here is that people will often times borderline flame someone after a mistake, and then play the innocent card.

"Let's group as 5 and see if we can get mid inhib."

"Vayne, stick with the team, stop making us 4v5."

It's not hard to see what response looks more accusatory vs team oriented. Especially in solo queue, try not to refer to people directly in an accusatory manner, but instead use words like "Let's," "Us," "We," Team" and "together."

You're more likely to get muted and ignored, or have someone go off the deep end and int if you call them out directly for a mistake, when chances are, they already realize they have made a mistake.

FreeVolibearMay 31, 20174 votes

Any complaint often receives a quick "stfu"

Mistress MadokaMay 31, 20174 votes

I wish people would voice their complaints so nicely in my games. 99% of the time for me it's

"Wtf stop feeding"

"smh trash x lane"

"/all report x lane for feeding"

GGLineaRMay 31, 20174 votes

I hardly see comments posts like that though. Normally if someone's complaining about someone is playing, they write it closer to this "this yi" or "you guys are retarded" or "STOP RUNNING IN ALONE YOU FUCKING F G T"

And while there's no problem with nudging people in the right direction, it's pretty rare that people do that without flaming. At least from what I've seen.

Tribbles FoxfolkMay 31, 20173 votes

There is a point where complaining about the team turns into negativity. No matter how justified, if you're just spending your time complaining and criticizing, even if it IS good criticism, then you are still contributing to a negative environment.

I'm not saying you can't offer advice or criticism, but you need to see the point where it stops being worth the effort. If your criticism falls on deaf ears or only sparks anger in response, it is time to stop. You will be wasting your breath and only make things worse for everyone involved.

Biting your tongue is a valuable skill that's important to learn. Sometimes, the best thing to say is to say nothing at all. Ever heard the expression "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it"? Well, clarify that a bit and it's "If you don't have anything constructive to say or it would be harmful to do so, don't say anything."

Acheron16May 31, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee Girl Alex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEEs3vt9,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-05-31T19:28:56.389+0000)

There is a point where complaining about the team turns into negativity. No matter how justified, if you're just spending your time complaining and criticizing, even if it IS good criticism, then you are still contributing to a negative environment.

I'm not saying you can't offer advice or criticism, but you need to see the point where it stops being worth the effort. If your criticism falls on deaf ears or only sparks anger in response, it is time to stop. You will be wasting your breath and only make things worse for everyone involved.

Biting your tongue is a valuable skill that's important to learn. Sometimes, the best thing to say is to say nothing at all. Ever heard the expression "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it"? Well, clarify that a bit and it's "If you don't have anything constructive to say or it would be harmful to do so, don't say anything."

Saying "Doing X is bad, stop that and change your strategy/play-style" is not being negative.

Being negative is the guy telling you to stfu or asking people to report you. But if the first guy keeps spamming about how poorly you are playing, then it is negativity.

And no, biting your tongue only works if it's ranked. Everyone has room to improve, just letting them keep on playing badly is making sure that they will always be bad.

Tribbles FoxfolkMay 31, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Saying "Doing X is bad, stop that and change your strategy/play-style" is not being negative.

Being negative is the guy telling you to stfu or asking people to report you. But if the first guy keeps spamming about how poorly you are playing, then it is negativity.

And no, biting your tongue only works if it's ranked. Everyone has room to improve, just letting them keep on playing badly is making sure that they will always be bad.

"Doing X is bad, stop that and change your strategy/play-style" The way that is worded is more of a command/demand than a suggestion. A globally non-negative way to say that is "Doing X is bad, you should adjust your strategy to the situation." The key difference is that saying "you should" is a suggestion, "stop that" is not. The latter of the two can be perceived as negative, even if it is not intended that way.

Being negative is a lot more than just harassing, saying "stfu", or "9x report X". Being negative can manifest in a lot of different ways. Examples would include: passive-aggression (i.e.: snarking, back-handed statements, etc), non-constructive criticism, arguing in general (it's inherently negative and not really needed in the heat of battle. Arguing is for private conversations, not All Chat.), unnecessary remarks, political statements (A lot of people play LoL to escape the stress of politics. Most don't want a reminder in their source of escape), and the list goes on for eons.

Biting your tongue works in any mode. Everyone has room to improve, yes. However, the ones you have to "let keep on playing badly" tend to be unable to accept constructive criticism and refuse advice. "They will always be bad" no matter if you try to force criticism upon them or not. Absolutely make an effort and be constructive, but sometimes there comes a point where you just have to cut your losses. You will likely spend more time trying to get acceptance out of them than it's worth. It sucks, but that's just life in general, not just League of Legends.

DokkaebiMay 31, 20173 votes

I've noticed that even build suggestions are replied with the response: 'stfu'.

BakedLotionJun 1, 20173 votes

Ashe "Why did u tower dive at level 3?"

Nautilus "I thought you did damage"

Ashe "I was exhausted"

Nautilus "Muted"

haha i love playing adc

DarkstarAzaleaJun 1, 20173 votes

{quoted}

"Why did u tower dive at level 3?"

"I thought you did damage"

"I was exhausted"

"Muted"

haha i love playing adc

On the other hand support abuse is real.

AlsoJinxBotJun 1, 20173 votes

It tends to matter how you say it rather than the complaint itself. If you say something along the lines of "DUDE! stop feeding zed (insert insult) then it's bound to turn into an argument or even worse. Simply saying "Try and play passive against Zed, I'll try and gank/roam soon" Will get the point across and make you come off heaps better.

SorryForYourLossJun 1, 20173 votes

The thing is, negativity is not productive. If we are down, Odds are I don't you reminding me of that fact, as I am well aware of it. Telling your teammate who is already 2 deaths in at 6 minutes they are doing bad and need to play more passive is likely only going to tilt them more.

I've done a good bit of competitive gaming across all platforms, though I am relatively new to league. One thing I noticed, if one of you is doing bad, it is the entire teams problem. Taking time to type out something negative is not going to positively impact the performance of your team. As a general rule of thumb, If I cant say it in 3 words or less, I don't say it.

I saw a post on here a while back about a guy who was two kills down in top lane. Instead of his mid or jungle flaming saying, "stop feeding play passive" his mid laner roamed, helped him secure a kill, and then simply said. "breath, you got this." The guy came back, won lane, and the team won the game. A simple message of positivity and a little teamwork goes so much farther than empty criticism. Instead of pointing out the negatives, just try to be encouraging.

You cannot force your team to do better, but you can damn sure make them do worse. When people start flaming, the enemy team knows. If you already know a good 80% of the league community insta-tilts when criticized, it becomes clear what you should do haha. The small things matter in league. And your team is your family for 15-45 minutes. Just keep a cool head, and do YOUR best to not become the problem.

korg023May 31, 20172 votes

"hey lux why are you always roaming bot and letting ryze get our tier 2 tower on mid??" "report Yi toxic ,flaming me whole game"

Sleepy SonaMay 31, 20172 votes

[deleted]

ItsbeghdevJun 1, 20172 votes

if their advice is not worth heeding be nice about it and respect that they tried to help you

Tobias BracknerJun 1, 20172 votes

Nah, if you wanna give advice then be prepared for people who don't want it and don't bitch about it.

MrNuclearPumpkinJun 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleepy Sona,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEEs3vt9,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-05-31T21:38:45.246+0000)

It's still annoying as fuck i don't want your trash advice if i didn't ask for it

If you stopped playing like a dumbass with your trash gameplay, you wouldn't get people giving you 'trash' advice.

ChroudMay 31, 20172 votes

You are right but in the erra of everyone gets a trophy sadly this wont ever change.

3TWarriorMay 31, 20173 votes

some people just seem genuinely messed up in the head from it as well or behave as though they are still ten years old(grammar nazi's for instance)

General Esdeath Jun 1, 20172 votes

"Hey Morg, can you get an upgrade sweeper so we can see Twitch and Kha?"

Morgana "omg stfu flamer top lane" Morgana "9x our top, fed Kha and Twitch because he's toxic"

every time man...

LeonerdoJun 1, 20172 votes

You have a good point. But with one major exception: In general, people don't need advice on how to play their champion (as opposed to advice about team-play).

To prove my point, let's start with three assumptions for a typical game. First, I assume I am playing a champion I know well (i.e. one of my mains). Second, I assume that other people probably do no main that same champion. It's certainly possible, but it's more likely that we main different champions. Third, we are probably have the same general skill level (i.e. MMR).

Now, in order for you to give me useful advice about how to play my champion, you have to know my champion better than I do. And for you to know my champion better, TWO of those three assumptions I made have to be wrong. I'd guess this only happens around 10-20% of the time.

On top of that, if you are telling me how to play my champion in the middle of the game, there is no way for me to verify that you know what you're talking about (without afking to check op.gg or something). Oh and one more thing, if I happen to be on a champion I don't know well, I can always ASK for advice if I want it.

So yeah, in general, advice/comments/complaints about how I play my champion are unhelpful and distracting at best, and if I'm already in "strawberry vanilla skin" mode, then it could potentially tilt me more.

Bringing it back down now, remember I started by saying that this was just an exception. I'm fine with complaints about team-play, or discussing strategy/team-goals/objectives, etc (aka strategizing). And I'm fine with pretty much anything posed as a legit question, even if it relates to my champion. For example, IMO, "Can you play more aggressive?" is better than "Please play more aggressive," because (assuming I have good reasons for playing passive) "no" is an acceptable response to the former but a stubborn refusal to the second. It's the difference between an inquiry and an order. In other words, asking what I'm capable of/want to do is fine and dandy. That's just a good first step to strategizing, which I already said is a good thing.

But telling me what to do or how to play my champion is just pretentious and condescending.

My HeartshakerJun 1, 20172 votes

While I do agree, they aren't the same thing and there are people who are overly sensitive,

sometimes it can be seen as passive-aggressiveness, particularly if they say something along the lines of "stop feeding"

or even if they mention something that you're already doing like "playing under tower", telling people that really does not help at all.

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