Can we please rework Black Cleaver?

Melledoneus·Nov 28, 2016·3 votes·717 views

It's not fun to get 30% of my armor shredded in less than a second by some dumb attack speed carry who also happens to have some %HP mechanic that is physical damage per auto, on top of having Bloodrazor and Blade of the Ruined King. That's right, a rare sight nowadays, Kindred.

Holy shit armor stacking is useless, health stacking is suicide, and she was almost impossible to take down. And she was BEHIND. I couldn't tank her for more than 7 seconds even with my dodge zone as Shen, and her ult negated efforts to kill her.

Not saying to nerf Kindred. I just hate how 30% armor pen for bruisers to stack over time is allowed to be abused by ADCs.

20 Comments

420 gramsNov 28, 20163 votes

It's an ads job to kill tanks. It's an assassins job to kill adcs. It's a tanks job to beat the assassins. It's a balance. That's what make the game a team game and why team comps are important

RalanrNov 28, 20163 votes

Still annoying when ADCs use Cleaver better than intended users.

PennsNov 28, 20162 votes

Adcs dont even use Cleaver tho :o

RalanrNov 28, 20162 votes

When I say ADC, I mean marksmen. And Kindred is a marksman.

PennsNov 28, 20161 votes

Didnt know she actually builds it, but other than that, no marksman really builds it now that crit > armor pen builds other than MF because she abuses it with ult... And Urgot I guess... if that guy counts lol.

RalanrNov 28, 20162 votes

It was just for the OP. I'm still kinda bitter about Lucian/MF BC honestly.

MelledoneusNov 28, 20161 votes

Lucian and MF do.

Critmaster GarenNov 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Adcs dont even use Cleaver tho :o

MissFortune Lucian Graves bought it regularly though and are still often picking it up.

its a core item for spell based fighters. the least they could do is adjust the stats to their advantage. they should just revert it to the old recipe

item 3044 + item 3067

and make it 40 ad and 400 health again.

tbh. i never understood why that was ever changed in the first place. would at least reduce the stat efficiency for adc.

PennsNov 28, 20162 votes

They did but they dont anymore because crit is just better, except for like I said MF, because her ult abuses it hard.

Critmaster GarenNov 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

They did but they dont anymore because crit is just better, except for like I said MF, because her ult abuses it hard.

they could still throw bruisers a bone and change the stats and recipe back to what they preferred on their item.

IceemberNov 28, 20161 votes

Where does soraka fit into that hierarchy?

420 gramsNov 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Where does soraka fit into that hierarchy?

Utility for the team. She's not meant to win fights. She's meant to help your team win them.

MelledoneusNov 28, 20162 votes

So many downvotes, but no meaningful discussion as to why. Guys, come on.

Critmaster GarenNov 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

So many downvotes, but no meaningful discussion as to why. Guys, come on.

a shitton of people are just reading the title, or the first 2 or 3 sentences and then downvote and leave without really reading every argument you made.

its just these boards.

Big LincolnNov 28, 20161 votes

500 HP 30 AD Armor Shred changed to Armor Ignore

problem solved

EndlessSorcererNov 28, 20161 votes

I know that Kindred's autoattacks (with at least one passive stack) would apply two stacks of Black Cleaver's armor reduction each. Her passive's damage would count as a separate instance of physical damage.

As such, she could easily shred through the armor of the enemy front-line (especially with Runaan's Hurricane).

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20161 votes

i suggested both half value for ranged (5 hits for 15%), or needing to double stack for ranged (10 hits for 30%). neither went over well. I've also suggested cleaver stacks only function with the person applying the debuff instead of a team wide effect to capitalize on.

the main offense with cleaver is the 20% cdr, its been gross ever since.

adcs have just been exacerbating the problems with cleaver.

AkeneroNov 28, 20161 votes

My issue is with champions who synergize stupidly hard with it, such as... Darius Garen Gangplank Kayle Talon Renekton Shyvana Trundle I'd love it if Black Cleaver shredded armor at different rates, like For autos: the same For DOT: 1/4 of the rate. Also, talon with cleaver is borderline broken with how fast his bleed works XD

Critmaster GarenNov 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

My issue is with champions who synergize stupidly hard with it, such as... I'd love it if Black Cleaver shredded armor at different rates, like For autos: the same For DOT: 1/4 of the rate. Also, talon with cleaver is borderline broken with how fast his bleed works XD

lol.

first off all, ive never seen kayle, gp, and shyvana go for cleaver. trundle goes for triforce instead of cleaver aswell.

second, you DO realize that the item was literally designed to synergize with the rest of the champions on that list? like that is its only purpose. garen, pantheon and talon were the poster boys when the item was made into an armor shred item in pre season 3.

the increased number of damage ticks on garens spin has mainly been added with the thought of increased cleaver synergy in mind.

darius passive has been changed to physical damage from magic damage, so it synergizes with cleaver.

youre complaining about the item being good on champions its supposed to be good on.