@Riot: Now that we're looking at the Vanguard rework, NOW can you talk about Thornmail?

darkdill·Feb 16, 2017·6 votes·777 views

I hate to be "that guy", but let's face it: Thornmail is crap, even in its edge cases of because of how easy it is to counter it now. and so forth can basically neuter the item, and then the person who bought the Thornmail will get flamed for not getting a Randuin or Frozen Heart instead.

But so far Riot has been zipper-lipped about Thornmail plans. Well, now you're talking about Vanguard updates, so now's the time to speak about the black sheep of the armor items.

7 Comments

catgrillFeb 16, 20172 votes

I 100% agree. I don't even touch Rammus anymore

QuephaFeb 16, 20172 votes

They probably will do a post about general tank stuff which would include items within the next few weeks.

I would be surprised if they don't end up sending thornmail to a farm upstate like heart of gold and mana potions, it's basically antithetical to everything Riot wants out of tanks.

darkdillFeb 16, 20171 votes

I wouldn't be surprised either. It'd actually let them modify Rammus to a healthier state if they removed Thornmail, much like how removing Will of the Ancients allowed them to properly modify Vladimir.

OrangesilkFeb 16, 20171 votes

It's the other way around man.

An ADC can outduel a tank by drain-taking with a lifesteal item. An ADC cannot outduel a tank who has thornmail, because the drain-tank cancels out with the lifesteal.

((This is only valid until a certain point in the game when ADCs become gods and you have to bow down to them as any other champion, but this is a problem with game design, not Thornmail)).

darkdillFeb 16, 20172 votes

No, out-lifestealing a Thornmail isn't that hard. Mercurial Scimitar neuters the item due to the MR it gives (tanks who get Thornmail tend to not have MPen). Phantom Dancer and Death's Dance also heavily mitigate the effects of Thornmail, allowing lifesteal to outpower the item.

I've had this happen to me countless times over the last year, even when playing Rammus or Malphite.

NGNL AsianFeb 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's the other way around man.

An ADC can outduel a tank by drain-taking with a lifesteal item. An ADC cannot outduel a tank who has thornmail, because the drain-tank cancels out with the lifesteal.

((This is only valid until a certain point in the game when ADCs become gods and you have to bow down to them as any other champion, but this is a problem with game design, not Thornmail)).

Has no one heard of lethality?

Big LincolnFeb 16, 20171 votes

i think item 3075 should be made closer to a Juggernaut's core armor item

they're the champs that want to jump on people, get in the middle of the fight, but don't want to eat a lot of damage because then they can't DPS; tanks on the other hand are perfectly fine with eating stuns and intercepting skillshots