It's cool you want a very diverse botlane - an exchange is needed

Elohaven··4 votes·1,340 views

Then I want more marksmen top, mid, and jungle.

Yet people weren't very welcome to the idea of Vayne top, Lucian mid, etc.

Marksmen don't have the survivability like other toplaners/midlaners but now that you want to introduce multiple classes into botlane, marksmen are getting a kick in the balls since over half the roster relies on crit and can't scale or do their job efficiently anymore due to game length and itemization.

I have no problem with a botlane introducing more carries but I do have a problem where some of my favorite champions aren't viable in other roles. People argue there are many champions in mid/jungle/top that with only about 2-4 ADCs have ever been able to be in and are hardly picked there. The same argument can be used with botlane and the scarcity of Ziggs, Cass, Ryze, Morde, Darius, etc.

Give marksmen the stats to survive in other lanes as well because now the game is shifting to a point where an entire class is almost irrelevant.

The notion marksmen are only going to be DECENT botlane isn't going to cut it. That's basically saying there will be non-marksmen meta picks. It's like saying you only want bruisers/tanks to be DECENT toplane and have other classes fill in but yet Riot was quick to come in and make toplane pretty much melee reliant due to their survivability and conqueror.

Marksmen don't even have the burst/damage to keep up with enemies late game anymore which was why they were a threat. Pre-8.11 they hit that power too soon, but now they hardly get close to a good DPS amount, get the items needed, or deal out the same damage.

Couldn't IE just have a change where a % based of your critical strike chance is changed to bonus critical damage? This makes the 2-item spike weaker but the 3-item spike just as strong to make ADCs relevant.

The game is all around bursting squishies, damage is nuts across the board, and marksmen have lost a lot of their value in the game.

17 Comments

D357R0Y3R7 votes

vayne top should not happen a hypercarry scaling champ should not be able to bully solo laners

they should allow cait ashe varus jhin to go in solo lane

the solution is to buff their base movement speed from 325 to 335 or 340 "they are ranged it can't happen"

vel'koz or any fucking 1000 range mage have 340 base ms, don't say it can't happen for those adcs

Ziggs, Cass, Ryze, Morde, Darius

? Everytime i check Imp Deft Ruler Bang Pray, or any korean adc they only play irelia yasuo and morde

ChaddyFantome1 votes

vel'koz or any fucking 1000 range mage have 340 base ms, don't say it can't happen for those adcs

To play devils advocate, Velkoz' main damage source isn't a resourceless undodgeable attack with no Cooldown.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

is azir's damage dodgeable? then why does he have 335 base ms? with 675 range on soldiers same thing with malzahar, why does he get to have a high movement speed when he has 1 skillshot and 700 range on ult

there is no reason for strong laning phase marksmen to have 325 base movement speed like ashe and caitlyn

especially when caitlyn has the lowest base AD among marksmen and lowest base HP to compensate her range

Aptest1 votes

a better question is, why can azir's dash outrange Zac's by 500 units ?

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

is azir's damage dodgeable?

Considering I can actually just move out of his Soldiers' range, yes.

ChaddyFantome4 votes

Then I want more marksmen top, mid, and jungle.

Yet people weren't very welcome to the idea of Vayne top, Lucian mid, etc.

Thing is, these champions already can go top because Range is OP in this game. The reason it is usually a bad idea is because it comes at the cost of having an actual frontline. If ADCs don't monopolise Bot, then having a ranged top wouldn't be so bad.

you know... assuming Riot actually makes more efforts to balance that shit.

Marksman like Quinn, Varus and Jhin already see play Mid.

As for the Jungle, we already have plenty of Marksman Junglers like Graves, Quinn, Twitch and TF. It's never been something people complained about.

Elohaven2 votes

They can't because it is too easy to camp them and set them behind. Their innate squishiness makes the cons completely outweigh the pros.

By marksmen, I specifically mean champs in botlane.

DunkedHerGood2 votes

“Then I want more marksmen top, mid, and jungle”

Kindred, Quinn, and Varus anyone?

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Kindred: garbage for almost an entire season, can’t go anywhere but jungle.

Quinn: isn’t played as a marksman.

Varus: his mid lane build was nerfed so that he can’t go there anymore.

Mordepool2 votes

Yet they are still played in those roles. As for Quinn not being played as a Marksman. News flash she still is a Marksmen

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

That isn’t what he’s asking for, and you know it.

If traditional bot lane ADCs are getting kicked out of bot lane, then they have nowhere to go.

This is something I said months ago.

I’m fine with other champs in bot lane, but opening the meta goes both ways.

You can’t iust kick an entire class out of their only playable lane and call that balance.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

this pisses me off even more

THE ENTIRE CLASS HAS NOT BEEN KICKED OUT OF BOT LANE

can we * stop this? just because 5 or 6 adcs aren't playable doesn't mean half of the adc class is not played bot right now

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Except only 7 of the total 17 bot lane ADCs have a win rate at or above 50%? The entire ADC champion pool is minuscule, and you’re telling me more than half of it losing their only viable lane is ok.

D357R0Y3R1 votes

win rate means jack shit varus has a low win rate but it never changed, because immobile adcs like varus/kog cannot be used by low elo players while are still insane in high elo especially since now challenger adcs are using lethal tempo

ashe has 49% win rate but always had 49% win rate, did not change and is still strong

50% win rate doesn't mean anything jesus

kalista has 50% win rate now, does it mean she's finally viable? sivir jinx have 49.5% win rate yikes

by the way, the bot lane was always decided by 4/5 marksmen the only thing is that now 4/5 marksmen are played WITH few other non marksman picks

Mordepool1 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JxWis1bP,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-10T19:31:18.492+0000)

If traditional bot lane ADCs are getting kicked out of bot lane, then they have nowhere to go.

Do you mean they have nowhere to go where they can be oppressive? They can go Toplane or Midlane and be successful UNLESS they deny thier team a necessary component such as a tank, Area control, or Lockdown. It's very Team Composition reliant

I’m fine with other champs in bot lane, but opening the meta goes both ways.

Well it was a one way street for a period of time with Marksmen invading every role in the game while still being competitive.

You can’t iust kick an entire class out of their only playable lane and call that balance.

That's not happening and frankly won't ever happen. Even if a part of me wants it too

Rexxiee1 votes

That will never happen, since they trashed their base stats.

Ratpie1 votes

I have no problem with this, but to make it work, high burst AD champs would have to take a hit or it adcs would just get curbstomped by AD junglers or lane bullies.

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