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You know when people say that AD outscale tanks late game...

taleofsonata··11 votes·1,554 views

Is it normal for AD to outscale Armor Tanks? There are 3 types of Tanks for me, Armor Tanks, Rammus Malphite Taric Magic Resist Tanks, Galio Maokai Then Hybrid Tanks, Braum Nautilus

Armor Tanks, are Tanks that hard counter AD champions and I don't think they should get outscaled by AD, they can still die to AD champion but I prefer the IDEA of a mage bursting them down. Magic resist tanks are champion that have MR steroids, Regen based on Spell cast by surrounding or % Damage reduction. Hybrid Tanks are tanks that provide utilities such as Shields to mitigate damages, with high base health aswell as having great scaling in both defense.

A Rammus that build Magic resist against a full AP team isn't gonna as effective than a Galio or Maokai. Armor Tanks don't have High Regen rate or anything that could regen their Hp compare to their counterparts the Magic resist tanks.

In other words, what I'm trying to say is that AD should not outscale Armor Tanks.

37 Comments

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

i grab one or two mr items on malphite. 4 armor items

guess who kills me faster? the mage that does. a whopping 800-1000 damage at most. with their entire cds. that makes them uselss for a solid. 4-5 seconds. and a long ass ult. which they probably should lose if they do because they can't kill our squishies anymore.

or an adc that autos me 2.5 times per second that does around 300-450 damage with autos.

quite an obvious question.

a late game adc auto. a single auto. does more damage. than a typical mage. 3 seconds cd ability. way more. however mages usually do more to squishies due to having mpen.

even though i was assassinated by a vayne yesterday. as a 2200 health gangplank. with 2 autos. each did 1100 damage. she didn't even proc silver bolts one time. i was full health.

annie has to use her entire kit to kill me that fast. and shes a mage. shes supposed to kill squishies

if you go back over the years. and not be a close minded douchbeag. you will see how riot has nerfed tank itemization mysteries etc. over time. I haven't played this game for long but i looked in the past and this game. used to have so much itemization choices for tanks. thornmail used to make adifferent. you bought it for a reason. passive increased %health regen for drain tanks existed through items. now it doesn't. crit items used to give less crit. now any adc gets 70%-100% crit. and lord dominks. that gives bonus damage amp just because u are a tank or a bruiser. lol.

hell more and more. i see tristanas kill fed zeds 1v1 late game. rengar dying to a sivir late game because if she flashed his Q she can 2 auto him and he dies.

i hope one day riot changes this mandatory class to be less oppressive mid and late game

or at least allow other classes to scale as well. but good luck with that since they have range

Earl Eulrich1 votes

yea, but riot keeps insisting that adcs don´t burst consistently as that would be a mage´s job... they must be bad at math and never play their own game i guess.

Jalkan1 votes

{quoted}

or an adc that autos me 2.5 times per second that does around 300-450 damage with autos.

dafuq? only kogmaw ever gets close to 2.5 AS in a regular game.

JustMyBassCannon3 votes

Yes, AD still outscales Armor Tanks, because if they didn't, this would be Season 1.

Ahristocats3 votes

Someone who played 5 ranked games in season 1 is trying to talk No https://youtu.be/KHUy68yZakI?t=364

season 1 was the most strategical thing i ever saw, like you could see focusing a tank would just make you lose the game if you let the assassin/adc killing your entire team. AD used indeed to outscale tanks, in late game tanks would still die from a focus but not in 2 seconds, was like 5 or 6 seconds, and guess what it's better than tanks being useless and only tanking 2 more AA than a squishy

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Are you just shit at tank in this season? Because I haven't seen a tank go down in 2 seconds, or "only tank 2 more AA than a squishy" unless they were fucking idiots.

My remark was more a joking knock against the League of Tanks, which was Season 1. A Tank surviving in a 5v1 under a turret for 10 seconds was a pretty consistent hallmark of the halcyon days of "can't kill tanks."

Rather obviously, it's a bit hyperbolic for the sake of the joke. That doesn't mean this shit never happened. Why do you think anyone else talking about Season 1 can only remember tanks never dying, supports being ludicrously OP because their AP ratios were really high, and "Ward wars"?

Mayboch3 votes

I've been thinking about this and here's what I think right now.

First off, this is under the assumption that everyone is relatively even in terms of gold/items.

-early game (laning stage) is pretty even. Tanks can bully carries, but carries should have all the tools to outplay tanks.

-mid game (after first item) tanks start to take a slight advantage. For a couple reasons

  1. Tanks should have higher base damages, but weaker scalings. So if a tank is doing similar damage as a carry after 1 item and the tank has higher damage resistance... You do the math. The tank will win.
  2. now the tanks advantage will continue to snowball (on the premise that similar damage output with higher resistance wins) unless the carries are able to slow down the tanks (through ganks or outplay) and allow the carries to gain a rolling gold advantage (through cs and/or kills).
  3. The reason why a gold advantage is needed for carries is mostly because damage items are more costly (at least in terms of value) than tank items. A full build tank costs less than a full build carry.

Late game (if everyone is full build) carries take back their advantage from mid game weakness. Because of the various buffs on the map combined with attack speed. And most importantly Lord Dominik's for AD carries and deathcap+void staff for AP carries.

To sum up, it's up to the carries to outplay the tanks in early/mid game or else the tanks will win (assuming completely even skill levels). UNLESS... The carries are able to drag it to late game where they gain the advantage again.

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

The fuck is maokai Magic resist tank?

morris12 votes

Best guess would be his passive.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Shit is sustain and scaling on health,not MR

morris12 votes

It counter acts spells, just saying.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

And every champion got 4 or more abilities,just saiyan

elon wątroba2 votes

Because HP counters burst, most of mages are burst based.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

Every champion got burst

elon wątroba2 votes

Not every champion can burst you in 1 rotation.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

You don't say.

Spoofghoul6 votes

Passive & ult

Passive is a softcounter to spellcasting

ult is a hardcounter with aoe damage reduction it really fucks over mages in particular especillay in the early & midgame where they rely so heavily on base damage still

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

This fucks up against everything,mages aren't the only ones that rely on base damage. This ult is % reduction overall,and the champion is scaling with health,which means it's a health tank. The only MR tank is Galio.

Ackelope3 votes

I wouldn't count his passive as a counter to mages specifically, there are many AD champions that rely on spells very much, and I'd say there are more AD champions that rely on spamming spells than there are AP ones. Playing Maokai vs Yasuo is quite nice since he E's and Q's all day through the minions and you get so much sustain. I do get the idea though, since while AD champs have the option of using just autoattacks in some situations, AP champions rely more or less solely on their abilities.

thacrazytaco1 votes

man i think this horse is dead guys

Aptest2 votes

hopefully so. triforce into tank hecarim ulting you from 100 to 20 is just cancer.

adidas1 votes

Depends on the build imo.

The darius i just fought had item 3047 item 3143 item 3075 item 3512 item 3071 item 3065

My crits were doing 300 late game. I have no fuckin idea how. I had a lord dom

GULAG 4 U1 votes

he did have randiun's, tabi and the spikyarmor thing so...

adidas1 votes

{quoted}

he did have randiun's, tabi and the spikyarmor thing so...

same

GULAG 4 U2 votes

Supposing the only arpen was LDR, darius has like... 90 base armor?

So approx 100 with runes, 200 with the thornmail, 290 with tabi and boots, 345 with with zz'rot which is like 260 bonus armor with a the +5% stat thing so he loses about 130 armor, so ~260 armor, with tabi and randiun not too surprised to see he doesn't take a lot of damage

Kokiri Star1 votes

With poppy its a gamble. will i melt to an adc or will i be a raid boss, usually its the latter but being mowed down in 3 seconds to a tristana or kog'maw(kog maw is expected) is kind of annoying and defeats the purpose of being a tank

Dengeden1 votes

Yes they should. Firstly, because tanks already shrug off AP damage with HP stacking and a Locket on the support/jungle. If they countered ADs the whole game, they'd be able to go for late game damage items or bruisers could stack armor against literally any comp and win late.

Secondly because Riot doesn't want 100% counters in the game and if the tanks can't abuse the ridiculous teamfight they will have during the midgame (and their ability to facecheck and not get caught out as easily), the ADs deserve their late game advantage.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

Is it normal for AD to outscale Armor Tanks?

yes

In other words, what I'm trying to say is that AD should not outscale Armor Tanks.

And how should one end the game?

Earl Eulrich1 votes

And how should one end the game?

maaybe by playing as a team and having a source of macigal dmg that can help taking down such a tank? or by getting slaughtered by the same tank and then losing. If the tank doesn´t die the game will end aswell, it´s a really stupid assumption that you need that crazy lategame dmg for games to end.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

Its not a stupid assumption, history has shown that when champs are hard to kill the game lasts much longer. In Tankier metas the games last longer and people sometimes will just farm all day because that's the only way to get an advantage. The game becomes boring and the crowds cheer everytime a ward is killed because nothing else will happen.

There's nothing stupid about the assumption, been there done that.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

wouldn´t remember a season where that would be true...in general games get more passive if the slightest mistake can end the game, not if someone has actual chances surviving a facecheck.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

one does not prevent the other

characters being able to survive a face check does not stop a single mistake from causing the end of the game. It does however make it far more difficult to determine when a mistake was made if nobody can die though.

Perhaps why nobody wanted to do anything ever back when this was the case

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Force_of_Nature

Earl Eulrich1 votes

on the contrary, S2 still is the season with the most action and strategy i have ever experienced in lol. because it actually took some proactive moves throughout to close out games (ofc you could just turtle like clg.eu did back then, but M5 made it pretty clear that playing to actually win from the get go had been the superior playstyle).

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

turtling was winning 90% of games until new champs and balance changes were released. It was proven that playing to win from the get go was the superior playstyle after Riot had already been trying to make this so. One of the first steps taken was making champions easier to kill.

Pika Fox1 votes

ADCs are champions with enough damage multiplication and safety in their kit that they can build full damage.

Youre being hit by someone designed to take down the beefiest objectives in the game, baron, dragon, elder, towers etc, in seconds.

It doesnt matter who you are, if an ADC late game is smacking you, you will die. Your objective is to keep your ADC alive while making sure you keep their damage at bay or CCd so they arent a threat and can be picked off.

xToxicOsirisx1 votes

AD outscales armor tanks because if they didn't, games would take significantly longer purely because nobody can kill the tanks. Mages don't tend to be at a disadvantage because their damage isn't sustained, it's burst. If tanks outscaled ad, season 2 would happen. Unkillable tanks and 40 minute games everywhere.

CaptnJakSparrow1 votes

Making tanks outscale adcs will just create the boring ass meta where the only two adcs played are Vayne and Varus because no other adc will be useful. Every champ will be a tank bruiser, and nobody will bother doing anything because fights are basically just league of health regen.

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