Late game instantly caught from a mile away with no counterplay to stop the sleep effect.
I'm not one to give certainly T a hard time, but honestly 
his champs are some of the most frustrating to play against.
Player experience against the champs has to count for something right??
ApexInTheCircle26 votes[deleted]
Pale Pirate3 votesI instead imagine Zoe as the ultimate middle finger champion. Now imagine that you are peacefully minding your own business, farming minions, when suddenly a Zoe appears out of thin air, with a big middle finger in her hand, only to disappear a second later, so you just stand there with disappointed apathy as expectedly a cannonball of arcane energy comes with lighting speed to rip your head off.
Velzard of Koz2 votesThere's a psycho hiding behind that giant unnatural mouth.
TBlackSwordsman5 votesWakey wakey eggs and rapey
rtbf7610927121 votesI fully agree her E just feels terrible to play against. It hits you through walls from way outside normal vision control could be expected to see and moves fast enough that it can hit you before you can react. I think it should decelerate more the further it moves through walls, so that shots from a screen away are much harder to hit when they exit the wall
however.. thresh is one of the very best designed champions in the game with expressions of skill and counterplay everywhere. If his hook just hit what it LOOKED like it should hit visually, he would be perfect. I would have to assume his designer had nothing to do with hitboxes and animations, which is the only frustrating thing about him
Shiznyte5 votesThresh was so well designed that the only way they could balance him is to nerf his Base stats into Oblivion and even then hes still a great pick haha
UpDownLeftRightAB4 votesCertainlyT makes champions where the player is the biggest weakness.
HR5OdeMImE12 votesDo you have any idea how many times thresh had to be nerfed to be balanced? It took him years to get out of the meta.
rtbf761092714 votesI would differentiate between design and raw numbers/OP/underpowered. The changes in the patch notes don't really reflect the DESIGN of the champion, so much as whether they are performing or not.
They are plenty of champions which I feel are terribly designed yet balanced, or both terribly designed and underpowered ect ect. The two things aren't necessarily effecting each other
Spank the Fox2 votesExcept most of his nerfs were very early into his release and only has had fine tuning since.
That's pretty much on par with most designed champions during that period of time and prior.
The0nlyLordREM4 votesI fully agree her E just feels terrible to play against. It hits you through walls from way outside normal vision control could be expected to see and moves fast enough that it can hit you before you can react. I think it should decelerate more the further it moves through walls, so that shots from a screen away are much harder to hit when they exit the wall
however.. thresh is one of the very best designed champions in the game with expressions of skill and counterplay everywhere. If his hook just hit what it LOOKED like it should hit visually, he would be perfect. I would have to assume his designer had nothing to do with hitboxes and animations, which is the only frustrating thing about him
God no, 10000 times no. Thresh W was the beginning of retarded designs by Riot. An ahri ult that allows anyone caught out of position to escape for 1000 range with ZERO counterplay, ZERO investment and low CD. Just mindblowingly bad design.
Penns18 votesPlayer experience against the champs has to count for something right??
only if its an assassin :)
T4underbolt7 votesand a tank
Ayame Isaki2 votesOr Janna.
Based Yager16 votesnah CT deserves all the hate he gets
Jbels11 votesCertainlyT is a 6 year old in the champ design floor who is basically told: "You can create whatever you want, just make sure the numbers are SOMEWHERE in the ball park of not being too overpowered". Then he ignores the second half of the sentence and gets to work.
Junkο7 votesYou do realize CertainlyT is not responsible for the numbers on a champion's kit right? That's the balance team's job.
Jbels8 votesYou do realize CertainlyT is not responsible for the numbers on a champion's kit right? That's the balance team's job.
The balance team didn't design her overloaded E. The more you defend him, the more he gets away with.
Handin Out Naps3 votesDid you even read what he said? What the actual fuck lol.
SEKAI11 votesDid you even read what he said? What the actual fuck lol.
Zoe's E, for a good example, is not overloaded because of borked numbers. E is overloaded due to a bunch of high level features all being tossed into it without any rhyme or reason, as in, the problem is fundamental and design-related, and not statistical; it is thus the designer's problem, and not the balance team's.
Also, a designer should still be responsible for an estimate or approximation of a spell's statistics, they're not entirely without responsibility in regards to all specific details and just sit there pushing out ideas in the most general and highest level like children in art class back in kindies.
Junkο3 votesBut the balance team decided that her E should deal so much bonus true damage, decided on the size of the leftover on the ground (which granted shouldn't exist at all) and decided the CD numbers on it.
the weeaboo6 votesGet hit by E
I know this comment is gonna get downvoted out the ass by people who hate Zoe but she has pretty obvious-but-small windows to outplay her. Yeah it's annoying but i dont see why its any less annoying than a Lux Q or Ahri W which have equally short cooldowns on their oneshot combo and powerful CC.
DarthFantasia5 votesYasuo is annoying no matter how many times you play against him. One crit item sky rockets his damage. If he gets to the point where he has life steal and a tank item, it's gg. Also, his ult may as well not even have a cooldown.
For Zoe, it takes time for her to be relevant. Also, her E is completely useless if you are standing with the minions.
hsojbabe4 votesIn lane, if you happen to be drowsy, quickly move behind a group of minions and her Q probably wont hit you. Yes her Q can hit a couple targets at once (that are bunched up) but not if you are far enough. You can also take a Cleanse.. and if your allies are smart, they will move in front of you so they take the Q dmg and not you
kargish30 votesAnd here comes the problem, you are slowed while Drowsy and you got like 1 second to get behind your caster minions. If you were in a position to get hit by the E, you're not likely to be able to get behind your casters.
Automated Riven7 votesIf your that far out of position. Then you fucked up.
CHODES AND LOADS21 votes[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JtFeyG9M,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-12-03T21:50:31.087+0000)
If your that far out of position. Then you fucked up.
"that far out of positon"
aka not spending 100% of the game hiding behind stuff so you dont make the grave mistake of being hit a single time by the cross country stun that leads to an inevitable orbital nuke that ur not gonna survive lmao
Automated Riven7 voteswhats the difference between getting hit by zoe e and getting hit by lux snare and w or morg q-w all of them are gonna punish you super hard for being out of position. zoe e is pretty short range without a wall to increase it if your unable to apply pressure without getting hit by in then you shouldnt be doing it. and zoe is unable to oneshot in lane until she has a few items and levels. Ya it may hurt but you know this ahead of time. If you get hit by zoe e, or any ranged skillshot stun/snare in lane then you are making mistakes.
NorthernRedStar6 votes[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JtFeyG9M,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-04T04:07:17.246+0000)
whats the difference between getting hit by zoe e and getting hit by lux snare and w or morg q-w all of them are gonna punish you super hard for being out of position. zoe e is pretty short range without a wall to increase it if your unable to apply pressure without getting hit by in then you shouldnt be doing it. and zoe is unable to oneshot in lane until she has a few items and levels. Ya it may hurt but you know this ahead of time. If you get hit by zoe e, or any ranged skillshot stun/snare in lane then you are making mistakes.
Except both Zoe's E and Q (her nuke) are spammable spells with low cooldown and mana cost. Are Lux and Morgana's Q as spammable? Is Lux's nuke, aka her ult, spammable? No. Do they leave behind a medium-size zone of threat you can't walk over? No.
Zoe is overpowered and overbearing currently, as can be seen from her high rate in comparison to a ridiculous play rate.
Spank the Fox3 votesAre Lux and Morgana's Q as spammable?
Yes and aren't dependant on landing to reduce their CD.
Is Lux's nuke, aka her ult, spammable?
Pretty much, with a 13-15 second CD at level 16.
Do they leave behind a medium-size zone of threat you can't walk over? No.
Ignoring Lux's E potential to permazone an area.
Sleepy Bubble Trouble AoE is actually sad and it can be intercepted by anything.
As the guy you're replying to said - is it much different from getting hit by other champion's death sentences? No, it's not.
Automated Riven4 votesShe has a 44-47 percent Winrate depending on which site you look at. She isn't op.
BestPudgeNA4 votes[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JtFeyG9M,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-12-04T12:48:16.205+0000)
She has a 44-47 percent Winrate depending on which site you look at. She isn't op.
Winrate isn't the end all be all for if a champ is OP or not. This is especially true for a new Champ like Zoe that people don't know how to play correctly yet.
Better stat for you She has over a 90% Ban rate according to OP.GG
NorthernRedStar1 votes[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JtFeyG9M,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-12-04T12:48:16.205+0000)
She has a 44-47 percent Winrate depending on which site you look at. She isn't op.
Except sources as far and wide as Faker have openly told they believe her to be broken. Her playrate is ridiculous, even above Lee Sin in popularity, yet she had a super high win rate for a new champion.
This is why silvers don't balance the game; you take stuff out of context, without the context, and slap your argument on it in a way that suits you.
Researching stuff is recommended before you start spouting your 'facts' out.
Tails90168 votes...if your allies are smart, they will move in front of you so they take the Q dmg and not you
You clearly haven't seen bronze, have you?
Daedric Etwahl4 votesI try to tank the shots for my allies all I can if it's otherwise safe to.
Then I remember I'm just a Sona and I lose half my health
Still, better than losing my midlaner, so I guess it's alright.
MeBuffULongTime9 votesHe probably thinks people will take my lanterns too... http://img10.deviantart.net/d532/i/2013/105/0/7/wonka_thresh_blank_by_artsed-d61v5ys.jpg
Imperial Japan3 votesOr high gold/low plat
RavenMagus2 votesAllies are never helpful.
Tibbers can tank it, though. Good ol' Tibbers never lets me down.
Kitten of Evil3 votesif your allies are smart, they will move in front of you so they take the Q dmg and not you
Cool, let me eat a 700 damage Q so that my CCed teammate doesn't take 1000 damage.
Rozzeta3 votesShe was made by CertainlyT? No wonder, then.
Kloqdq2 votesHonestly if I have no problem with Zoe as a whole. Frankly, I don't consider her that amazing from my experience. However, when I see that E pick someone off for the 50th time and know that person is now dead 100% because they got hit by E, I know, that shit is the most cancer thing I've seen. Zoe's E is hands down the best pick spell in the whole fucking game. It puts someones out for about 3-4 seconds from the very beginning and allows for so much follow-up time it's stupid.
Audiomancy1 votesYou could say the exact same thing for a Lux/Morg/Anivia Q or Xerath/Syndra/Vel'Koz/Ahri/Veigar E though. Getting hit by a burst mage's CC is basically a death sentence on any champion, not just Zoe.
Kloqdq1 votesMy thing is all of those have some clear weakness to their abilities. Morg and Anivia are slow as balls. Syndra needs a bull. Vel'Koz has a clear tell. Ahri, Lux and Xerath are a little trickery but they are all fairly short overall. Veigar's E varies but it's probably the strongest one there. I think if we want to compare pick, I would compare it too Elise's cocoon. Those two are comparable due to their raw power (2 seconds of stuns), the following burst from the champions and what matters most, the speed and visibility.
Seriously, Zoe's E can be hard to see when you are close, can be hard to tell you even have been hit by it to be honest, and it moves REALLY fast. At a standard cast range, this sleep can be fairly difficult to react to and when it hits, it has a massive effect. For at least 1 second, a person is just out of a fight. Most people will look to find some cover because they know how deadly this effect is. That's before you even get into the CC part. Than you have 2 seconds of hard CC that massively debuffs you. So now you have a long CC effect that is fast and comes with a debuff.
That's before we even get into the range and the extra effect of it becoming a trap. Zoe can possibly effect a lane she is only somewhat close to making her has a lot more map pressure than you may think. Seriously, Zoe could be at dragon and throw a trap almost all the way to bot lane. This has some insane power someone can use and the effect is so powerful it hurts.
Zoe's E is to Zoe what Ardent was to Enchanters. It is the champion.
Iffy Jarl2 votesAny word on it being uncleansable being a bug or intentional?
RainbowIcee1 votesI personally haven't faced any problem fighting Zoe but i guess that doesn't mean others aren't. Maybe adjust her CC like other champions. Force it to be leveled up to be used at max CC potential. 
Fear has shit range and you have to level it up for it to get to longer CC time. It is point and click but the range makes up for that.
Lùmen1 votesno counterplay
ninjaroxas1 votesAh yes nothing like getting a qss on tailyah
Lùmen1 votes
Also just because QSS is a component for an AD item doesn't mean mages can't build it. lol
Morgana's Black Shield prevents the sleep if she puts it on you before you get hit
also works just fine
ninjaroxas2 votesYa but I can also buy an IE on her or a deathcap on draven. You give up a lot by building a qss on a mage
