When is Master yi going to become MASTER YI??

AMADEUSdotEXE··12 votes·6,010 views

His kit leans more towards an anime protagonist with a plot armored sword with big ass aoe swing attacks. He's basically kirito from SOA but hes scraping his head against his blades but it somehow works. His kit should relfect that he is a masterful swordsman, not ss4 gogeta with automated cannons on his elbows and katanas for legs.

Give him a proper rework! He has potential to be an interesting champion, not what he is now which just leads to people either being salty or insulting his lack of difficulty. Yasuo seems more like a sword master than Yi.

Example: Yi's q reowrk idea: Yi dashes to a target location dealing damage to all units he psses though, if it connects with a champion the cd resets/halved. Possible "i" frames. Passive should have something to deal with his crazy ass octopath lenses. His kit should reflect his character and theme.

33 Comments

OurLestrade7 votes

He needs a move where he does a drop kick and uses the swords on his boots.

Astorine3 votes

But attacking with a cactus that scrapes against his useless lenses is his true self. Ye a bit of a rework sounds fine.

SEKAI3 votes

Yasuo seems more like a sword master than Yi.

WTF.

Yasuo can literally be using a pistol, or a wand, and his kit would not change at all whatsoever. In fact, he has a skin that replaces his weapon with a pistol with a blade attached to it, and the only thing that actually reminds us of the fact he even uses the blade section is his AA animation.

Tell me how Yasuo who may as well be channeling magic with a wand is more of a sword master than Yi, who actually employs sword fighting rationales into his design (hence why his design is so incredibly opportunistic in terms of playstyle that is all about capitalising on the opponent's mistakes and outmaneuvering them via smart timing and rotating, his strike demands commitment due to 'no backing out', principally centered around high risk and reward where he either goes boom or bust, his fights often in a flash that also demand lightning fast decision making to make the most out of it, simple footwork/fundamentals yet diverse and complicated as you progress such as how Yi has so many viable builds and tricks despite the seemingly simplistic design, and Yi's kit doesn't hold both of your hands unlike Yasuo's MANY layers of safety and instead Yi's kit is full of tradeoffs that forces the players to gather the wits about them when in any environment that isn't the bottom of the skill barrel and doesn't just encourage the players to endlessly spam like the pretentious Yasuo, etc).

Hell, Yi is even that guy who first rekt all the noobies in LoL all the way back and still does like some sort of rites of passage, forcing the players to git gud. In a meta sense, he IS a master who looks after the players.

But then again in the end of the day, Yi actually uses his sword like a damn sword, so how do you think Yasuo is a truer swordsman?

........

Also, Yasuo has higher win rate than Yi even in Bronze; and let's forget high elo, because Yasuo is actually contested in pro scene unlike Yi. So stop saying Yasuo takes more skill or whatever nonsense stigma that people still hold against Yi.

........

Yasuo is a flashy and pretentious mage pretending to be a reserved swordsman, while Yi will always be far closer to the true spirit of a real swordsman and a real master.

AMADEUSdotEXE2 votes

Ok sorry but tl;dr (you probably did the same), Yasuo's theme is that he's a samurai so swift that he is one with the wind. It wouldn't make any damn sense if you gave him a coffee maker as a weapon or a machete. Samurai and the wind/water have a long history together. Do your homework before you come talking trash on my post that i wrote at 4 in the morning.

IDEMO NA MUDA2 votes

Also, Yasuo has higher win rate than Yi even in Bronze; and let's forget high elo, because Yasuo is actually contested in pro scene unlike Yi. So stop saying Yasuo takes more skill or whatever nonsense stigma that people still hold against Yi.

Yasuo does require more "skill" as you would say than Yi because of his mechanics and play style. Yi is a monotone sword master that does the same thing in every situation there is. Yasuo has variety of plays that he can provide if played properly. Also, Even tho Yi's kit is ( imo ) poorly designed and should be reworked, I don't find him quite interesting to play with or against. In lower elo, plat and below, he can be devastating due to a lack of communication and cooperation. In higher elo, at least in my games ( diamond 2/3 ), Yi if he even gets picked, often gets annihilated by a good early game jungler such as Kha Zix making his life difficult and putting him far behind making him useless while Kha Zix is snowballing hardly almost solo-carrying the game. Yasuo isn't broken. Is strong but ain't broken. I love playing against Yasuo with Zed or playing Yasuo against Zed because it really does require skill to outplay each other, but if you're not confident enough about picks against Yasuo, one simple Annie with Luden's Echo that gets a single gank can outdamage Yasuo. Also Vladimir. Yasuo stands no chance against a good Vladimir player if Vlad doesn't get hard bullied by early game ganks.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BløødHarbor Þyke,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JrRl79P2,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2018-05-28T19:12:50.049+0000)

Yasuo does require more "skill" as you would say than Yi because of his mechanics and play style. Yi is a monotone sword master that does the same thing in every situation there is. Yasuo has variety of plays that he can provide if played properly. Also, Even tho Yi's kit is ( imo ) poorly designed and should be reworked, I don't find him quite interesting to play with or against. In lower elo, plat and below, he can be devastating due to a lack of communication and cooperation. In higher elo, at least in my games ( diamond 2/3 ), Yi if he even gets picked, often gets annihilated by a good early game jungler such as Kha Zix making his life difficult and putting him far behind making him useless while Kha Zix is snowballing hardly almost solo-carrying the game. Yasuo isn't broken. Is strong but ain't broken. I love playing against Yasuo with Zed or playing Yasuo against Zed because it really does require skill to outplay each other, but if you're not confident enough about picks against Yasuo, one simple Annie with Luden's Echo that gets a single gank can outdamage Yasuo. Also Vladimir. Yasuo stands no chance against a good Vladimir player if Vlad doesn't get hard bullied by early game ganks.

If a champion has better win rate in the worst elo where the worst players gather, that means the champion is easier to play.

What you're referring to is merely flashiness, which is never a factor that remotely concerns real sword-masters. In fact, real sword fights or real martial art duels in general, are incredibly boring to watch; there is a reason why the highest caliber of kendo matches are boring as sin to amateurs because the match is an extended staring contests that ends the instant they finally moved.

The real stuff is in the shadows while amateurs and ""casuals"" (that is not a serious remark, note the double double-quote) cheers on the superficiality. Funny how that people equate Yasuo's spammy flashiness as skills despite his entire gameplay can be summarised with a flowchart with 2 branches outside of the niche uses of E, while completely ignoring the nuanced interactions in Yi's kit just because he 'looks' "monotone" to a spectator.

........

Yi really only needs something done about his E, and he's literally good to go. He is only "monotone" because people don't bother to learn about Yi at all: He can time his Q critically to dodge attacks and do niche escapes, he can use W to block attacks acting as a pseudo parry which can be a big game changer in close duels, and the best Yi can even count his Double Strike stacks (including those generated by the W channeling), and be good at map maneuvering to get the best out of refresh as well as to "steal" objects around the map unnoticed, etc. The only thing that's holding him back is his redundant E, so redundant it doesn't even really interact with Yi's own player; if they can do something to it and give it some meaningful presence, Yi is the ultimate swordsman in the game, not the other wind mage that thinks he's qualified to be called a swordsman just because he uses a sword as his wand and has a melee AA animation.

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

Yi really only needs something done about his E, and he's literally good to go. He is only "monotone" because people don't bother to learn about Yi at all: He can time his Q critically to dodge attacks
exactly. That's the only "benefit" he gets. He goes untargetable and he can dodge stuff. Aye. That's interractive. Yi's kit is monotone because there's not much you can do with it. Yeah, you can dodge stuff with Q, you can absorb damage with W and u can run real fast and hit real fast with ult. Great. Zed can dodge with ult, reposition on a totally different side of the fight, deal a lot of damage in a lot of sides, and be fun to people cause you actually need time to master his combos, his play style and his skillshots. Riven is a high risk high reward champion that has everything offensive ( even E if used correctly ) in her kit and she can be fun with proper mechanics. There is plenty of champions of the same role ( even tho i mentioned zed as one since you mentioned dodging ) that are far more interractive and fun to play with cause of the variety of what their kit can provide. Not Yi though.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

Ok sorry but tl;dr (ou probably did the same), Yasuo's theme is that he's a samurai so swift that he is one with the wind. It wouldn't make any damn sense if you gave him a coffee maker as a weapon or a machete. Samurai and the wind/water have a long history together. Do your homework before you come talking trash on my post that i wrote at 4 in the morning.

All of that about winrate is irrelevant when we're talking about a champion living up to the THEME of their design. Please read the post before you go on a rant about how yi slapping people with his curved erect penis sword like he's trying to cut down a tree is closer to a swordsman than Yasuo. Or actually, go play Skyward sword. Or even better, go get your self a sword, and try and have a swordfight with a skilled swordsman flailing like yi and tell me how it goes.

SEKAI1 votes

If by "long history" you meant mass media in the last couple decades only, then otherwise it's a questionable assertion at best. Wind and water are motifs that have been heavily used in MANY eastern martial art IN GENERAL, it is NOT exclusive to samurai (which is also NOT a kind of martial art discipline or some kinda job or title as you might've been implying, but a name of a name of social caste or class; you are not trained to become a samurai, you are born a samurai. The current use of the term "samurai" in media to describe a kind of warrior archetype while may be convenient, it is not correct), neither are wind and water the sole motifs applicable to or had been used by samurai as basically anything in nature have been used by samurai at some point (and as far as I know, they seemed to prefer plants related symbols, judging by their different faction flags in the warring periods).

Also, the impression that samurai were swift was because samurai's most historically known perk was their famous archery skills and polearm skill to some extent, while riding on a horse; and ofc, Yasuo uses neither of those things. The modern interpretation that samurai is equated with katana and such only came about 3-4 centuries ago on the arrival of Edo period in which Japan became a relatively peaceful land in comparison to its more old war-torn self (where conflicts had been vastly down scaled and more oriented to pen wars than sword wars), as such swords/katana became the preferred arm of choice, ascended from the polearms and bows that dominated the battlefields, as self defence scenarios would only happen in extreme close quarter and with no involvement of armour; but most importantly, it was also the time when sword smiths began signing their proud crafts with their initials, in which swords had acquired the additional meaning of status symbol (if the sword is named), and ofc, then associated to the upper class citizens of samurai, and here we are.

Point being, the impression of samurai you have, is in the end of the day, a very derivative interpretation of the subject matter as used in the modern mass media, as most tropes are, which is very inaccurate if you want to discuss the nature of samurai while using it as a reference. Before you accuse someone of being uninformed, at least make sure your understanding isn't limited to media tropes.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

So i get what you mean, but i'm calling your bs on either looking that up on wikipedia or REALLY paying attention in an eastern history focused lecture/course.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

So i get what you mean, but i'm calling your bs on either looking that up on wikipedia or REALLY paying attention in an eastern history focused lecture/course.

Well, I was born and half raised in the east after all, in Taiwan. That and, yes, wikipedia.

SEKAI1 votes

Now I will compare Yasuo with Yi.

#Gameplay

On the merits of Yasuo being a swordsman himself when it comes to gameplay, he flails his sword and his entire body far more than Yi anyway, so what are you even on about? Yasuo's kit is FAR MORE SPAMMY than Yi ever will be as an objective fact, so I don't get what you're trying to say there.

Yi at least is only "passively" spammy in which only the character model is spammy whereas the actual play style is actually really precision based much like the real sword techniques especially those in the bounds of Japan if we have to stick to the topic of samurai (I will get back to this later); you need to jump into fight in the right time or get absolutely wrecked, you need to time the Q dodge and W block at the right time or get wrecked, and you need to do pretty good estimates if you want to get the most out of your refresh mechanics, and in much higher level of play you even need to count the Double Strike stacks (both counting the normal AA, and the stacks from channeling W), supreme map maneuver skills are also highly advised for skirmish and evading counterpicks and objective stealing, etc.

On the other hand, Yasuo is only about stacking raw stats to be able to spam Q and E as much as possible, and actively encouraged to do so because there is 0 downside for spamming his attacks like a mad man given there is neither a resource management system nor do the vast majority of his features have almost any forms of cooldown, making him an "active" spammer because both the character model and the player themselves are spamming. There is barely any emphasis on precision in this regard, the sole aspects seems to be using E to cross terrains sometimes which can indeed be quite tricky especially if you have like 3 people going up your ass at the time, but otherwise his kit is as mindless and forgiving as it can get (landing 3rd Q does not count as precision because there is no downside to simply spamming it and landing it because of inevitability; W would've been actually about precision if it doesn't last like a million years, wide as all hell, and have completely broken both hitboxing and its queuing that collectively makes it almost impossible to fail as long as it is cast; and R well, it's basically automatic).

As far as the emphasis on precision is concerned, I utterly fail to see how Yi even managed to lose in your comparison exercise.

.......

#Thematic

Yasuo

Yasuo doesn't use his own sword properly, because his fighting style is counterproductive. He fights with Iaido and other similar sword-drawing styles, that is why his fighting style involves incrementally closing the game with his opponent and end the fight once the opponent is within his 'death zone' (his ulti allows him to teleport on condition and ignore the process of trying to get close to the opponent the hard way). So far so good, but here's the kicker:

  • Contradiction #1 - ranged attacks has no place in this combat form and neither does Yasuo's primary gameplay revolving around ranged poking/harass/thrusting and anti-poking make any sense to his own combat form because it's about close range area denial. Windwall kind of has the right idea, but it has other various problems I mentioned in the gameplay section.
  • Contradiction #2 - He spams way too much and never sheath his sword in between his attacks and neither does he swing the arcs with his draws outside of 1 single interaction in his entire kit, so that means he's not only betraying the "kill on draw" rationale of his own combat form, neither is he utilising the core and essential mechanism of sword-draws via exploiting the body rotational momentum when drawing the sword. This begs the question why he is even using sword drawing combat form; it's like he's consciously choosing to use a sniper rifle even when he's a close quarter combatant in a close quarter combat. And it leads to...
  • Contradiction #3 - While he is completely failing in his sword-draw style by straight up not using it, he also doesn't wield his sword in the conventional manner of TWO HANDING it. Katana are made and taught to be used as TWO HANDED SWORDS for a reason, because it provides better control, more degrees of motion, less opening and weak points at the front, and ofc, more raw strength from 2 arms and your entire body than simply 1 arm and maybe the hip.

So to rephrase #2 and #3 by putting them together, Yasuo is neither taking the advantage of his drawing motion despite his combat stance as well as refusing to 2 hand the sword which further cripples his own strength for no reasons; now to combine with #1, that he also completely misses the point of his combat form by attacking mostly with thrusting motion even though he's using a combat style that is to swing arcs (Japanese blades do use thrusting motions, but it has no place in Yasuo's declared style that should be mostly if not entirely about slashing).

The apologetic response is that: This is all intentional, that Yasuo is intentionally handicapping himself by pretending to be a complete amateur in his arts. But then again, his extremely serious demeanor and his lacking sense of humour doesn't point to the notion that he's the playful type at all. Outside of his Project skin, which does 2-hand the sword upon his typically extended blade exposure after drawing, which singlehandedly makes it have far more sense than all of the rest of Yasuo's skins including his Classic; but as far as Classic Yasuo is concerned, due to the various fatal contradictions in his combat style at the extreme cost of his practical effectiveness begging his understand of sword fights, it can only be concluded that Yasuo is rather amateur in his craft; or to be more specific, his designer had no idea how to design a swordsman with eastern ideas.

Master Yi

Yi, on the other hand, gets the art of swords, or again, their designer did, and that establishes his mastery in the field at the very least, far better than Yasuo's does.

First of all, unlike Yasuo, Yi is not even modeled after the sword arts from Japan, but instead from China. The core differences include:

  1. China differentiates between a sword and a blade whereas Japan does not. A sword is mostly a thrust weapon but can occasionally be used for slashing if you have to, while a Chinese blade or otherwise called “dao” is always a slashing weapon by default. Dao may resemble katana, but they differ in that katana are also designed and used with thrusting, and that dao is also used against heavier objects and therefore are principally designed with much more mass than the typical katana. Yi's "sword" is a dao, therefore Yi’s combat form only involves only slashing and chopping and makes perfect sense that way. Dao is also typically seen in China as more “brutish” weapon compared to sword, and so things like sheaths is typically an after-thought for dao; and this is also why Yi’s weapon does not have a sheath.
  2. Weapon training in China are often not about the weapon but the person. This is the primly the reason why many a great deal of the martial arts were developed with both the usage of weapon and unarmed at the same time, such as Tai Chi where often it’s both applicable to be trained with both weapons or without. Yi's sword style may more "free form" simply because of this., as instead of using the blade according to a set of principals that guides his actions, he instead uses it as an extension of himself. It’s worth noting that Yi has trained himself to be ambidextrous to be proficient in the blade with both of his hands, and can be seen via the fact Yi swaps the sword between his hands every now and then, especially during the Double Strike animation in which you can observe the blade is exchanged between the hands mid-swing to achieve a fast double strike; this strongly but also subtly hints at a the prospect that Yi is a swordmaster.

Also, unlike Yasuo who primarily attacks by flying around and poking at the opponent until he is confident enough to jump in and finish the fight (as far as his gameplay goes), Yi fights strictly in a straight line. It invokes other dueling sports such as fencing and kendo and even things like boxing to some extent in which the opponents are forced to beat their opponent in a straight line, ie a fair fight, in order to prove their supremacy. And this contrast is also very telling of the difference between the 2 character’s mindsets. Needless to say, Yi proves superior in this regard, not only as a swordsman, but also as a better sport.

Yi is also a far more humourous person than Yasuo. He actually dances, his quotes are far calmer and collectedly reflective to the point of constantly reminding himself of the possible mental weakness he may have, he jokes with the enemy when he uses his spells such as asking if the opponent has missed their attack when he uses Alpha Strike, he would tell the enemy to defend themselves as he attacks them (though this quote can not be heard by the enemy player), and 1 of his 3 taunts is actually a joke (in which Yasuo is the opposite, only 1 of his 3 jokes are actually somewhat funny). All of this points to a far more experienced outlook in Yi, and obviously makes him a far more collected person than Yasuo.

…….

Final thoughts

It’s not that Yi is a perfect champion. If anything, his E is one of the worst spells in the game atm because of how redundant and how shockingly non-interactive it is that it isn’t even interactive for Yi’s own player; and if Yi were to receive any change, they should always start with E.

But to say that Yasuo somehow constitutes a better swordsman in terms of the high level design and the gameplay pattern, I can only disagree.

Kadexe1 votes

Yasuo can literally be using a pistol, or a wand, and his kit would not change at all whatsoever. In fact, he has a skin that replaces his weapon with a pistol with a blade attached to it, and the only thing that actually reminds us of the fact he even uses the blade section is his AA animation.

His basic attacks and Q are sword attacks... and they comprise about 95% of his damage.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

His basic attacks and Q are sword attacks... and they comprise about 95% of his damage.

His Q are not sword attacks, he only thrust his sword at the direction of the opponent but it's the wind that damages the opponent. Sure, people could be standing right in front of him and get stabbed, but then again, so would if Yasuo is using a wand, and so it's really not something exclusive of swords and stuff.

That's why they replaced High Noon Yasuo's Q with gunshots, as well as how I said Yasuo may as well be a mage with a wand, because his AA animation is the only thing that reminds us that he is even using a blade; because there is nothing in his kit that emphasises the fact Yasuo is actually using a sword out of his AA, as outside of that he could be literally using any other weapon and it wouldn't make any difference, be it a gun, a spear, or a frying pan.

You can also refer to my longer post just above that details why Yasuo's combat style as shown in the gameplay is completely counter-productive to the cause, too.

BLIGHTBRINGER2 votes

Why not just give him a complete VGU? I mean some parts of his lore, kit, visuals don't work together why not start from scratch? But still keep some parts of him relatively familiar.

https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzNYvpek.png

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

How the hell did you do that

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

Do what?

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

You put your name n the picture i didnt know we could make custom emotes

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

Oh, that.. Yeah I had a user by the name of (@A Nunu) who made one for me. All credits go to him. One more thing it's not really an emote, it's a signature that some people like to include :)

A Nunu1 votes

{quoted}

You put your name n the picture i didnt know we could make custom emotes

my name jeff https://i.imgur.com/b7Hjwht.png/img

Kadexe1 votes

The parts of his visuals that don't work (like the goggles, which never served any purpose) are so iconic to his character that they can't really be removed at this point. He wouldn't really benefit from a visual update IMO.

KZ Engel2 votes

please dont change yi thanks riot

and please dont give him an untargeted dash thanks again

part of yi's skill expression is timing his q to follow jumps, dashes, and blinks

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

Oh let me correct your typo... you meant to say part of yi's summoners falling into a coma due to excessive slamming of their heads against cheap keyboards is timing his q to follow jumps, dashes, and blinks when they let thier little 8 year old sister take over

KZ Engel1 votes

you'd rather yi is allowed to follow you over walls without any kind of effort or timing whatsoever? sounds cancerous

Gabresol1 votes

It would help if we would get a lore that explaines the wuju style precisely. Because the similarities between Wukong and Yi stop at the "Wu" of Wuju.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

xD true

Onandaga1 votes

If Master Yi ever gets reworked, all that I ask is that he doesn't lose his position as the Penta Overlord. I already lost Katarina in that regard, whom statistically used to always have the highest amount of pentas per game but now is beaten by miles in that regard by Yi and even by some ADCs after her rework.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

Whattyu mean I've got like 1k games on kat in the last 2 seasons and I've gotten more quadra kills then i can remember.

Onandaga1 votes

{quoted}

Whattyu mean I've got like 1k games on kat in the last 2 seasons and I've gotten more quadra kills then i can remember.

The statistics on Lolaltyics speak for themselves. Pre-rework she consistently at first place for pentas per game at around 0.0115. Post-rework to present she is at around 0.0085 pentas per match, which around 30% less pentas. This is at Gold+, in diamond+ post-rework Kat's penta ratio drops to 0.0046, with old Kat's being at 0.0118 at diamond + as of June 2016. That's over double the amount of pentas.

Kadexe1 votes

I don't think he's that far off from the fantasy of a hyper-agile one-man-army swordsman. Timing Alpha Strike and Meditate cancels requires a deceptive amount of skill and reading your opponents. The only spell that really needs to be changed is Wuju Style. The true damage is important for balancing him, but it's such an uninteresting spell that requires no skill to use.

AMADEUSdotEXE1 votes

Honestly... I agree i feel like what they should do is rework his passive (maybe), his e, and his ultimate (his ult is just a clusterfuck of buffs but if it didn't change it would make sense because its like hes ACTUALLY using his crazy goggles, to make him less **Alpha Strike(Q) ** centric. If you take away his q in his current state he becomes unplayable. That doesn't sound very good to me from a design perspective...

Nasus is another old and simple champion, but people have proven that if you take away his Q or one of his other spells, he still functions. Not sure what to say about nunu. If you take out annies passive she ust becomes awkward to use but she still works. VIktor can lose one of his abilities and still work. Teemo would have a tough time without w, but flash still makes up for that. And with akali if you take out her passive/ult she doesn't work very well unless your fighting a team of melee champions but still would likely suffer.

DreamConsumerist1 votes

Master YEET, you mean

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