Please learn how to play with a zoe on your team...?

AMADEUSdotEXE·May 11, 2018·2 votes·1,911 views

Stop stealing her passive minions, she can pick up a REDEMPTION/Heal which can HEAL YOU. Thats a good thing!! You know like maybe your about to die and luckily you didnt steal my minion so i saved your life?

And if you're getting collapsed on by superminions and you want to teamfight, clear the wave and then engage!! Don't engage on a team surrounded by mions and then get pissed when i literally can't do anything because I'm basically trying to stick a carrot in a key hole.

We aren't playing Xerath or Lux, Every ability we have can be body blocked by any unit. Which means you trying to teamfight on top of 50 minions is going to be you, yourself, and your mistake.

14 Comments

LuggMay 11, 20182 votes

I have to be honest, Zoe needs a complete, from the ground up rework. Her kit is the worst thing Riot has ever come up with and it's horrible for the game.

SlythionMay 11, 20182 votes

Please stop playing Zoe. She's the worst designed champion in the game, and CT should've never gotten the green-light from Riot to begin with.

So, for the sake of the majority of the serious league community, just stop playing that abomination :/

important note: I don't just mean she's a bad champion in terms of balance, but actual design. I'd be glad to explain further if you want, I'm just giving this note to inform people that my opinion is not purely "omg I hate Zoe trash champ garbo!!!" fueled from losing to her, but actually thought out.

nelogisMay 11, 20181 votes

That is pretty dumb.

It's like saying "concede all of your cs because I need silver serpents that could turn around a fight in our favor" Gangplank Or concede all cs because I need Hp or AP or Stacks Sion Veigar Nasus

It's your job to pick up spells, not your teams job as much as it's the job of above mentioned champions to gain their scalings.

And at the end of the day, her W and Passive needs to be reworked anyway.

Doge2020May 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Or concede all cs because I need Hp or AP or Stacks

Well it is kinda hard to get your stacks as nasus when everybody decides to take the minions of the lane that you were already at. I have had countless games where my team doesn’t understand that in order to do damage I need to stack minions, then when I tell them to repeatedly stop they complain in all chat that I want all of the minions to my self. As a nasus player I understand that my fed adc needs farm in order to stay ahead, I just ask them to leave me some minions so I can stack.

It is pretty hard to do your job when there are people fcking up your job after you told them to stop.

nelogisMay 11, 20181 votes

Yes I know, it's hard to stack as a Nasus when grouping 5 v 5. Thats why I listed him here, that some others champions have it harder to do their "job" (in regard of getting spells/scalings online) than Zoe. And it is stupid to ask their team to stop clearing minions, when grouping you want to siege stuff, you want to get objectives but you can't do that when clearing a wave takes 20 seconds because some guy needs a spell or needs to stack something.

Also you can't really expect that your team leaves a minion (or a specific one in Zoe's case) up for you to do your "job". Since wave clearing abilities do exactly that, clear the whole thing. You can't just cast a Viktor ray and leave up a minion at the end, it just clears the whole thing.

Having said that, as a Nasus you generally want to stick in side lanes until you have enough stacks to teamfight anyway (which is 500 if I remember correctly?)

Doge2020May 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes I know, it's hard to stack as a Nasus when grouping 5 v 5. Thats why I listed him here, that some others champions have it harder to do their "job" (in regard of getting spells/scalings online) than Zoe. And it is stupid to ask their team to stop clearing minions, when grouping you want to siege stuff, you want to get objectives but you can't do that when clearing a wave takes 20 seconds because some guy needs a spell or needs to stack something.

Also you can't really expect that your team leaves a minion (or a specific one in Zoe's case) up for you to do your "job". Since wave clearing abilities do exactly that, clear the whole thing. You can't just cast a Viktor ray and leave up a minion at the end, it just clears the whole thing.

Having said that, as a Nasus you generally want to stick in side lanes until you have enough stacks to teamfight anyway (which is 500 if I remember correctly?)

Yeah that is why I usually split push until I have at least 300 stacks before I start roaming (but I usually have 300-400 stacks at 20 min anyways). I was saying that when I am alone and a teammate comes into my lane they usually don’t understand that I am slow pushing it out so they try to instaclear the wave or next wave and deny me stacks.

I just get kinda angry when people clear the wave for no reason when there are no objectives in danger. I know how to fast push as nasus which is why I have a pretty good win rate as nasus.

VoraciousXMay 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That is pretty dumb.

It's like saying "concede all of your cs because I need silver serpents that could turn around a fight in our favor" Or concede all cs because I need Hp or AP or Stacks

It's your job to pick up spells, not your teams job as much as it's the job of above mentioned champions to gain their scalings.

And at the end of the day, her W and Passive needs to be reworked anyway.

Honestly with Zoe's waveclear now it seriously feels like you have to use E to even get that minion unless they're already almost dead and you get a max range Q.

nelogisMay 11, 20181 votes

Pretty sure any minion dies with a reasonably ranged Q plus auto. A ranged minion just dies by any ranged Q and an auto. You just need to kill that one minion that has the spell, you don't need to clear the whole wave.

A Swain is also responsible for his own passive stacks. It's not the job of his team to ensure he has passive stacks ready, It certainly helps if the team assists him but it's not a must. Same with Zoe, you have tools to ensure that you kill the minion, a Q with ult surely kills any minion. You might have to work more for it but it isn't like you can't do it.

VoraciousXMay 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure any minion dies with a reasonably ranged Q plus auto. A ranged minion just dies by any ranged Q and an auto. You just need to kill that one minion that has the spell, you don't need to clear the whole wave.

A Swain is also responsible for his own passive stacks. It's not the job of his team to ensure he has passive stacks ready, It certainly helps if the team assists him but it's not a must. Same with Zoe, you have tools to ensure that you kill the minion, a Q with ult surely kills any minion. You might have to work more for it but it isn't like you can't do it.

Nope, her wave clear sucks now. Maybe if you have two full items you can wave clear with Q the way you're talking about, but with just a doran's ring or one full item you're not gonna be clearing anything. Also if you took a minion that Zoe could have used to help your team out of greed, that's being a bad teammate. You're putting your team at a disadvantage because you're removing one of Zoe's abilities.

nelogisMay 11, 20181 votes

Nope, her wave clear sucks now

You need to kill that one minion, not the whole wave. Last time I checked her single target damage is pretty good.

Maybe if you have two full items you can wave clear with Q the way you're talking about, but with just a doran's ring or one full item you're not gonna be clearing anything

Then you are still in laning phase and don't have to deal with teammates stealing your spells, unless you have like 2cs/min then yeah.

Also if you took a minion that Zoe could have used to help your team out of greed, that's being a bad teammate. You're putting your team at a disadvantage because you're removing one of Zoe's abilities.

Again, this is a dumb argument. So the whole team should wait for you to get your spell? When grouping you want to siege stuff, you want to get objectives but you can't do that when clearing a wave takes 10 seconds because some guy needs a spell.

That is putting your team on a higher disadvantage than not giving you a spell would.

Edit:

because you're removing one of Zoe's abilities

Then this is trash design and needs to be reworked.

VoraciousXMay 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You need to kill that one minion, not the whole wave. Last time I checked her single target damage is pretty good.

That one minion is usually behind other minions, making it actually kind of difficult to kill in most situations without just flat out E>autoing it.

Again, this is a dumb argument. So the whole team should wait for you to get your spell? When grouping you want to siege stuff, you want to get objectives but you can't do that when clearing a wave takes 10 seconds because some guy needs a spell.

Or, your team could clear all the minions in the half a second it takes their ADC to take a whole wave, and leave the one minion that Zoe needs? Outside of Statikk Shiv proccing and accidentally killing it, I see NO reason for anyone else to INTENTIONALLY take that minion. Again, PURE GREED. There's no other excuse for that.

nelogisMay 11, 20181 votes

Or, your team could clear all the minions in the half a second it takes their ADC to take a whole wave, and leave the one minion that Zoe needs? Outside of Statikk Shiv proccing and accidentally killing it, I see NO reason for anyone else to INTENTIONALLY take that minion. Again, PURE GREED. There's no other excuse for that.

Yes if the ADC clears it, what if Viktor comes along and casts a ray? Xerath, Ziggs, Anivia, literally any wave clearing mage?

They can't control what they clear, they just clear the whole thing.

Nasus Sion have it way harder than Zoe to kill minions when grouping as 5.

PURE GREED. There's no other excuse for that.

Because it still takes longer than to just clearing the wave? Believe me, if it actually would be worth giving you the spell in return of slowing the team down for 3 seconds or so then they would do it. Like they help Cho to get his stacks when doing drag or something like that. Because they know that giving Cho the stack is worth the 5 second wait.

Giving you the spell is not worth the 3 second wait when you are trying to do stuff as 5. Keep in mind, you are 20% of the team. That ability is 20% of you. That ability can be activated through other means too (your own summoners and picking up used spells) so in the end that is like 2% of your teams power-budget that is being left behind.

VoraciousXMay 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes if the ADC clears it, what if Viktor comes along and casts a ray? Xerath, Ziggs, Anivia, literally any wave clearing mage?

They can't control what they clear, they just clear the whole thing.

have it way harder than Zoe to kill minions when grouping as 5.

Because it still takes longer than to just clearing the wave? Believe me, if it actually would be worth giving you the spell in return of slowing the team down for 3 seconds or so then they would do it. Like they help Cho to get his stacks when doing drag or something like that. Because they know that giving Cho the stack is worth the 5 second wait.

Giving you the spell is not worth the 3 second wait when you are trying to do stuff as 5. Keep in mind, you are 20% of the team. That ability is 20% of you. That ability can be activated through other means too (your own summoners and picking up used spells) so in the end that is like 2% of your teams power-budget that is being left behind.

People don't help Chogath get his stacks, he deals enough true damage to get them on his own. Outside of a jungler actually smiting it to steal it from him, that's the only way Chogath WOULDN'T get his stacks(and even then early on Chogath likely has more true damage than the jungler's smite). Also he can only infinitely stack off champions, and epic monsters. Only a possible of 6 stacks in the BEST CASE scenario of a long game would come from epic monsters.

Minions do not form in a straight line when they are stopped. They spread out, Viktor CAN miss one minion if he chooses to. Same for Ziggs, and Xerath. Anivia is a little different but I find it odd you're actually comparing mid mid laners wave clearing TO A MID LANER(Also this proves Zoe's wave clear is trash). You're not gonna have both unless it's a support Anivia or Zoe, which is probably going to happen in 1 of 300 games. As for Zoe's W, it consists of a BUNCH OF THINGS ON A 120+ SECOND COOLDOWN. These are all things that are considered to be high impact in League. If a Zoe sees an ignite, and picks it up, and HAS ignite, she could deal up to 1010 true damage in a team fight just from that, and that's without counting the sparkles and move speed and passive proc she gains after using these things.

LunnaliaMay 12, 20181 votes

When your mates are "stealing" the minions with little stars, you can just GENTLY ask in the tchat to let them for you, and eventually explain why you need them! (: (rather than crying here, it won't change anything...)

And yeah, minions are best zoe counter since she depends on her skillshots, but you can still r + sleep over minions if you are behind them, that can help your teamate a lot.

And stop saying Zoe needs a rework please... She is fine right now, really. She isn't as overcheat as before but is still viable and pretty strong (but still doesn't need a nerf). I personally love her kit and enjoy playing her a lot, especially because of the W.

Her waveclear is okay (q + passive + q + passive do perfectly the work if you aren't to close) even if it's clear that this isn't her main strenght (i recently got against an azir with zoe and he was pushing me under my tower hard :/ ) and you can easily counter her: take cleanse, an assassin (fizz, yasuo and zed are my worst nightmares when i play zoe!) or just build magical resistance... Or the best counter: ban her during champ select and you are all good...

So yeah maybe there are a few mistakes in what i am saying since i'm new to the game but seriously if they rework her i would be very disapointed.

Oh and I know it's an unpopular advice, but I really like her design (she is one of my favorites in the game) I don't think that all the characters have to be super serious and I really like the idea of a joyful and playful spirit.