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A game of Math shows you the optimal path. Sorry about that.

Occams Raiser··3 votes·747 views

Seems like there would be an optimal build for every situation but mostly am I winning or am I losing. Which one of them is fed. So why is there always so much talk about experimentation? Are you like me, incapable of doing some of these equations without seeing one done first? Are someone who has to see what someone else has done first hand to make it real? I see a lot of people trying to reinvent the wheel when the options for a particular just aren't that many. If you slightly off build. they say you must be new. You go totally off build, they say you must be a troll. And you are. It all math. Look at your character, look at the items, now before you play look online cause someone else has already done what you are thinking of. Someone can already tell you the most optimal build.

I'm not telling you not to have fun. I just don't like people hiding behind "exploration" when really you are just seeing what this troll build will do. Hint: nothing but make you lose, TROLL. I kid, I kid. But seriously, you are doing the opposite of what's optimal did you think adding Wit's end to your adc was going to unlock the Ark of the Covenant?

14 Comments

redniwediS4 votes

Optimal describes a very large area. You can have two people of equal skill playing the same champion equally well with two slightly different builds. Optimal only works in an optimal situation, which is very rare, so there are additional variables you can work around.

The big thing is matching something that is optimal to your playstyle. Doing so will make your build slightly less than perfectly optimal, but may offer better results due to your own personal quirks.

Math is perfect, however humans are not. Humans and their flaws must be taken into account.

Occams Raiser2 votes

You are turning optimal in relative term. Relative to a given situation there is an optimal build to the scenario. There are builds where you are behind or ahead. It is a matter of the person ahead setting the pace. If he goes damage what will you do to match him.

redniwediS2 votes

Well for all practical reasons optimal is relative. There is, of course, one build to rule them all in most situations, however for regular players that build is best used as a guideline instead of a law.

I'm talking about small differences of course, like movement speed quints vs AD quints on a top laner. Good players will adjust their build to the situation at hand, however personal preference shouldn't be ignored for the sake of what is perfectly optimal.

Sona Ping1 votes

Okay, let's have some fun and make a formal discussion out of this.

"playstyle" - You are going to have to say what this is and why it is relevant. "You can have two people of equal skill playing the same champion equally well with two slightly different builds." Of course. But between the two builds one of those player's build is going to be better based upon the numbers of the items and said items are interacting with (e.g. armor) as the other variable (the player) is something that you set to be equal in your example.

"Optimal describes a very large area....Optimal only works in an optimal situation, which is very rare, so there are additional variables you can work around." That is, by definition, false. Optimal describes only one thing, that thing/scenario/build/what-have-you that is the best and "optimal" has no inherent relation or requirement to a second "optimal situation". If the situation is different, if the situation changes and has different variables then something will still be optimal, which may or may not be the same as the previous situation.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I suppose you could work your build to your play style, but there is a damage output that is superior. It would be best to work towards that output. If you go crit chance while someone else goes damage then crit you lose lane if they go speed you might be fine not going damage.

Z Statistic1 votes

There is A optimal build for any given situation because there are a finite number of builds and each one is unique. Thus, they can be ordered according to some arbitrary rule. And if they can be ordered, there is a "best".

The caveat is that the the ideal build for any given moment is not the same as the moment before; the entire game of itemizing your champion is to build something that is the optimal item for as many of the successive situations as possible.

redniwediS1 votes

Playstyle describes how a given player applies their champion's kit and build to the game. Are they going to split push, roam early and try to snowball others, search out people to duel to snowball themselves? Many champions are capable of fully supporting multiple playstyles, and deciding which one is more valuable in a given meta cannot always be decided without experimentation.

How you've defined optimal is what I view as being perfectly optimal. Optimal as it is most often used on the boards and in game is something else. There's a reason Mobafire is the target of so many jokes. Every little variable will change what is actually optimal for a given situation, and that is practically impossible to map out ahead of time. You could set up the most epic League spreadsheet of all time, showing what exactly should or should not be built in every given scenario, but it would be nearly impossible to memorize and would have to be updated every patch.

What is realistically possible is a much smaller list of variables with some ballpark ideas of what is optimal in those situations. Aiming for something that is close enough leaves a much longer list of what should and should not be built. Add in differences in playstyle and you have something that is not only usable for the average player, but something that has room for experimentation.

DrCyanide2 votes

What mage build will give you the most DPS or Burst? You can calculate it out, and can maximize that DPS with more AP and Magic Pen items.

But then you get to the execution, and you realize that you are bad at hitting your skill shots consistently. In order to increase your DPS, you actually need more CDR, even though the math says that will decrease your DPS.

In short, the way you play a champion changes which build is actually better suited to you. You either change the build to match what you naturally do, or you change the way you play to match a mathematical model.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I see your point

Sinister Snail1 votes

How do you think people find these "optimal builds?" Have to experiment some time. That's not to say, build Ohmwrecker on koggles, but somebody thought "huh, wonder how Luden's is on him."

Occams Raiser1 votes

So it is a matter of just not wanting to do the math.

Akeydel1 votes

With personal skill, you can make up for any losses from not following an 'optimal' build. In anything short of challenger, the game wont be determined by the extra ad, crit chance, lifesteal, ap, spell vamp, mr, armor, mana, health, ms, that you lose out on by not following the best build possible. That's not to say that counter-building and adapting per game isn't important, but it's unjustified calling someone a troll for building item 3065 (or even item 3512) instead of item 3102, even if you somehow know that the latter is "optimal".

Reikken1 votes

Well that's what I do. I do the math so I can better know which items are best for the playstyle I want, and what's best to counter the enemy team. Though a lot of the time it's pretty clear-cut, and no math is needed.

Dr Poro1 votes

It's not always that clear. A lot of things should work in theory, but don't work in practice and vice versa. This is because we don't have the world completely uncovered yet. Why do you think so much money goes to experiments to drugs, new technogoly, etc.? There are a lot of projects that should work but somehow don't. There is a missing link but we don't know what it is or even where, all we know is that theory and reality don't always collide.

While LoL is a game, made by humans and thus a lot less complex, I don't think there's a single person that knows EVERYTHING about it out of their head. "lol nub I play just 1 year I already know all stats of all items". But there's more. All the scalings on each ability of every champion. The hitbox of all champs, their base stats and stats per level, the ranges of all abilities, stats of all jungle creeps and minions, all those things have a larger or smaller impact.

On top of that, no one plays this game perfectly. There is no team that is unbeatable because they have the game figured out and never make mistakes. Everyone makes them. And making mistakes has an impact on what would have been better. In a perfect situation, with perfect reflexes item A would be better. But because you can't use the item quickly enough, it drags you down thanks to your limited skills.

Also, what works for one person doesn't work for another. We all play different and building differently can be beneficial for someone with an unusual gameplay. It will probably never be enough to get to challenger as it's inferior to other builds in the meta, but for a player that does poorly with other builds, he can climb higher this way. (difference between low gold and plat maybe)

I'm not saying this is the way it usually is, though. Just saying that it is possible. For a random player, it is indeed statistically better to just follow a build that someone else figured out instead of trying to make up your own strategies. But sometimes innovation gets you higher. Of course, you still need to theorize beforehand and you must have a reason to be going that way (just like you don't randomly experiment a new drug on humans without any clues that it could have an effect. You can do this in vitro though because you can cover a grand amount of drugs with relatively little effort and hope to find something new).

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