"pushed Yasuo away from a wombo-combo-friendly mid laner towards a solo-splitting top"

Bultz·Jun 30, 2017·2 votes·861 views

I don't know where you get your information from, butttttttttt ughhhhhhhhhhhhh all of Yasuo's counters are basically top lane. Him getting ahead top lane means they are playing out of their skill range. Also that ADC top are still found in most matches, as I find Teemos, Quinns, Dravens, etc. hell even jhin top all the time..... Maybe You shouldn't be making up stuff and focus on the problem of long range adcs being able to lane anywhere, that includes jungle. Yeah? You Feel me? Stop lying about Yasuo and give straight facts. I have never once come across a super skill top who played darius, or rekenton, or poppy, nasus, etc. and been able to steam roll them. Try again with your excuses Riot.

76 Comments

Rins Thigh SocksJun 30, 20173 votes

Well let's see.

In Plat+ and Diamond+, Yasuo has a higher win% as well as pick% so yes, he is primarily a toplaner, regardless of whether he has his counters there.

ADCs viably don't go top outside of the occasional Teemo and (last patch) Lucian. These aren't lies, these are facts derived from DATA.

Also,

{quoted} I have never once come across a super skill top who played darius, or rekenton, or poppy, nasus, etc. and been able to steam roll them. Try again with your excuses Riot.

You're Silver. You won't see super skilled players and thus that anecdote is utterly irrelevant.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkvEE7l5,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-06-30T23:07:16.464+0000)

Well let's see.

In Plat+ and Diamond+, Yasuo has a higher win% as well as pick% so yes, he is primarily a toplaner, regardless of whether he has his counters there.

ADCs viably don't go top outside of the occasional Teemo and (last patch) Lucian. These aren't lies, these are facts derived from DATA.

Also,

You're Silver. You won't see super skilled players and thus that anecdote is utterly irrelevant.

How many times do you egotists need to post about ranked which idgaf about. I've played against plat+ yall aint shit either like tf. He has a like 1% higher win rate and you come here telling me he is a top laner. Let's see the data m8.

Rins Thigh SocksJun 30, 20173 votes

{quoted}

How many times do you egotists need to post about ranked which idgaf about. I've played against plat+ yall aint shit either like tf. He has a like 1% higher win rate and you come here telling me he is a top laner. Let's see the data m8.

"I don't need data, I don't need hard facts. Anyone who says otherwise is an egotist!!!!"

Nice.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/yasuo is the data for you. You'll notice that he's both played more and wins more. Even if it's a marginal difference it says so much about his ability to win from top, especially when in most matchups his W next to is useless.

Also, I have a Silver friend who is just as arrogant as you. Guess what happens any and every time someone better than him lanes against him.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkvEE7l5,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-06-30T23:15:49.615+0000)

"I don't need data, I don't need hard facts. Anyone who says otherwise is an egotist!!!!"

Nice.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/yasuo is the data for you. You'll notice that he's both played more and wins more. Even if it's a marginal difference it says so much about his ability to win from top, especially when in most matchups his W next to is useless.

Also, I have a Silver friend who is just as arrogant as you. Guess what happens any and every time someone better than him lanes against him.

All I see is a 50% or lower winrate indicating he is balanced. Your stats did nothing for you and you need to get off your ego. Come play against me if you are so sure like ffs.

RalanrJun 30, 20171 votes

Though he does have a higher winrate top, which if I understand correctly you're argument was that he wasn't good in top.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Though he does have a higher winrate top, which if I understand correctly you're argument was that he wasn't good in top.

I didn't say he wasn't good, I said he wasn't steam rolling anyone. Also if a 1% difference is what you are clutching onto then wow. Also 50% win rate isn't good. 56% is good. 50% is called perfect win rate in league terms.

RalanrJun 30, 20171 votes

50% isn't actually perfect. Some champions aren't meant to have that due to the nature of their kits and then you have to factor pickrate. If someone has 30% pickrate but a 50% winrate, then something is wrong.
Riot never said he steamrolled top either, just that he was being played more there as a solo split pusher instead of his intended teamfight powerhouse lane of mid.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

50% isn't actually perfect. Some champions aren't meant to have that due to the nature of their kits and then you have to factor pickrate. If someone has 30% pickrate but a 50% winrate, then something is wrong.

Riot never said he steamrolled top either, just that he was being played more there as a solo split pusher instead of his intended teamfight powerhouse lane of mid.

Lol 50% is perfect. How can you ask for better lol like dufuq? Ban rat indicates little when people just ban him out of hate not his gameplay.

If they didn't say he was steamrolling then they wouldn't be changing his kit. Simple as that.

RalanrJun 30, 20171 votes

Let's say someone had a 75% pick rate but a 50% winrate, and this was a high skillcap champion but these were also the first 10 games.

Still seem balanced?

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Let's say someone had a 75% pick rate but a 50% winrate, and this was a high skillcap champion but these were also the first 10 games.

Still seem balanced?

If you really need to make up numbers to that extreme you have your answer. As for this, 50% is 50%. that is balanced. There is nothing better than 50% unless you can name it.

RalanrJun 30, 20171 votes

...

You're either really stupid, trolling, or do not understand how this game works.

Rins Thigh SocksJun 30, 20173 votes

{quoted}

All I see is a 50% or lower winrate indicating he is balanced. Your stats did nothing for you and you need to get off your ego. Come play against me if you are so sure like ffs.

Did I say anything about balance? I said he was better suited for toplane.

If you read or focused on the topic rather than letting your temper write your argument you'd have figured that out after I linked you the data.

Also, would you like to make things interesting? You make an entire team of your friends you think are good. I'll get together my Diamond friends. We in-house.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkvEE7l5,comment-id=00040000000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-30T23:23:01.175+0000)

Did I say anything about balance? I said he was better suited for toplane.

And I am saying he is average at best in both. clinging to a 1% difference is poor.

If you read or focused on the topic rather than letting your temper write your argument you'd have figured that out after I linked you the data.

Also, would you like to make things interesting? You make an entire team of your friends you think are good. I'll get together my Diamond friends. We in-house.

Lol Can't 1v1 because you need help? I don't need to know how good your friends are, your the one insulting me.

Rins Thigh SocksJun 30, 20173 votes

{quoted}

And I am saying he is average at best in both. clinging to a 1% difference is poor.

Lol Can't 1v1 because you need help? I don't need to know how good your friends are, your the one insulting me.

Well see, League is a team game. There's a lot going on in lane including positioning, warding, and jungler ganks, and the full game itself is significantly deeper. And you did say, "yall plat+ ain't shit." Which I'd assume means the whole lot of us, not just me.

So I'm giving you an opportunity to put your money where your mouth is. I'm Diamond 3 and I have a bunch of friends who love to play inhouses who range from Plat V to another D3. If you're interested in playing us I'll get them together.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkvEE7l5,comment-id=0004000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-30T23:31:20.149+0000)

Well see, League is a team game. There's a lot going on in lane including positioning, warding, and jungler ganks, and the full game itself is significantly deeper. And you did say, "yall plat+ ain't shit." Which I'd assume means the whole lot of us, not just me.

So I'm giving you an opportunity to put your money where your mouth is. I'm Diamond 3 and I have a bunch of friends who love to play inhouses who range from Plat V to another D3. If you're interested in playing us I'll get them together.

Well you see You are saying I am an unskilled player. And league may be a team game, but you are talkign to me and tryign weseal out of a 1v1. Grow a pair or don't talk to me. K.

Rins Thigh SocksJun 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Well you see You are saying I am an unskilled player. And league may be a team game, but you are talkign to me and tryign weseal out of a 1v1. Grow a pair or don't talk to me. K.

Yes. Unskilled players can be good laners, but ultimately they need to know how play the game or they'll just keep winning by getting fed off worse players.

That's why you used to see a lot of Riven one tricks in D5. All they know how to do is aggress and so if they don't know how to do much besides that they won't go anywhere, however they'll beat anyone who doesn't know how to deal with their aggression.

I'll 1v1 you if you insist but it's utterly meaningless for that reason.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkvEE7l5,comment-id=000400000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-30T23:41:17.078+0000)

Yes. Unskilled players can be good laners, but ultimately they need to know how play the game or they'll just keep winning by getting fed off worse players.

That's why you used to see a lot of Riven one tricks in D5. All they know how to do is aggress and so if they don't know how to do much besides that they won't go anywhere, however they'll beat anyone who doesn't know how to deal with their aggression.

I'll 1v1 you if you insist but it's utterly meaningless for that reason.

And rank is pointless that is why I don't play. It's purely calculated on wins and useless information, not in game skill. If I don't need to ward 50 bushes that game I wont, but they take things like that into account. Mostly thought t's if you win or not. I can't be told I suck when my team mate feeds 0/8 first 5 minutes. Like there is no counter for that snowball of a game. But I am still told I suck because someone screwed me. 1v1 is my skill vs yours plain and simple. Me playing with a moron jungler while the other team has a op jungler affect the game to much as well and so many factors that just lead to the ranked system as a system of if you got lucky that game or not. Nothing with who is actually good.

Rins Thigh SocksJun 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

And rank is pointless that is why I don't play. It's purely calculated on wins and useless information, not in game skill. If I don't need to ward 50 bushes that game I wont, but they take things like that into account. Mostly thought t's if you win or not. I can't be told I suck when my team mate feeds 0/8 first 5 minutes. Like there is no counter for that snowball of a game. But I am still told I suck because someone screwed me. 1v1 is my skill vs yours plain and simple. Me playing with a moron jungler while the other team has a op jungler affect the game to much as well and so many factors that just lead to the ranked system as a system of if you got lucky that game or not. Nothing with who is actually good.

ROFL

you're so wrong it hurts.

Oh well, I'm shooting you an invite right now.

RalanrJun 30, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkvEE7l5,comment-id=00040000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-30T23:51:24.982+0000)

ROFL

you're so wrong it hurts.

Oh well, I'm shooting you an invite right now.

Please record it.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Please record it.

Come play me, she doesn't need it recorded, I invited you as well.

RalanrJun 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Come play me, she doesn't need it recorded, I invited you as well.

I already expressed my opinion on fighting you. I just think watching it would be fun.

Rins Thigh SocksJun 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Come play me, she doesn't need it recorded, I invited you as well.

I'm not on that account it doesn't have all my champions. I invited you on my main account.

Rins Thigh SocksJul 1, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I already expressed my opinion on fighting you. I just think watching it would be fun.

He's a no show. I tried adding and inviting him to no response.

RalanrJul 1, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkvEE7l5,comment-id=00040000000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-07-01T00:06:24.159+0000)

He's a no show. I tried adding and inviting him to no response.

HAHAHAHA.

BultzJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I already expressed my opinion on fighting you. I just think watching it would be fun.

Your opinion is basically your shook

HalcyonDwellerJun 30, 20171 votes

Riot has stated that they like the diversity of marksmen being able to be played in other positions besides just bottom lane.

Marksmen do have some issues, but I think you've got the wrong idea about them. Riot actually wants them to be able to jungle.

If they are dominating lane matchups by way of ranged harass then either Riot needs to implement better itemization for melees or players need to learn to build correctly to play against lots of harass.

Some options exist for this already:

Catalyst of Aeons exists for battlemages or other heavy mana users.

Spectre's Cowl and Doran's Shield exist to provide massive health regen against opponents who harass often.

You can buy up to 5 health potions i believe. This is well worth it if the enemy can out-harass you, because having the extra health regen will allow you to stay in lane longer, farm more, and gather more XP to keep up with levels.

Building resistances already reduces the damage you take.

Building damage only works if you can outplay them and catch them.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Riot has stated that they like the diversity of marksmen being able to be played in other positions besides just bottom lane.

Marksmen do have some issues, but I think you've got the wrong idea about them. Riot actually wants them to be able to jungle.

If they are dominating lane matchups by way of ranged harass then either Riot needs to implement better itemization for melees or players need to learn to build correctly to play against lots of harass.

Some options exist for this already:

Catalyst of Aeons exists for battlemages or other heavy mana users.

Spectre's Cowl and Doran's Shield exist to provide massive health regen against opponents who harass often.

Building resistances already reduces the damage you take.

Building damage only works if you can outplay them and catch them.

Riot needs to stop favoring champions types. Yasuo is supposed to only mid lane, while adcs run around everywhere. Stupid Riot. Like You don't want someone who counters adc to be a top laner, but let the people he counters go top. amazing logic. I hate how Riot feels they have the riot to force people into playing how they want them to play and need to realize Champions won't be segmented into lanes. That kind of mentality is what has crushed games before.

HalcyonDwellerJun 30, 20171 votes

Am I missing context somewhere? I do not recall Riot ever saying that Yasuo had to play mid-lane and not top...

They usually just recommend champions for particular roles, then the champion hits live and the players find their best or favorite roles for the character and Riot only rebalances them if they turn out to be unfairly dominant in that role or position.

I'm pretty sure that they only pidgeon-hole champions out of certain things when they turn out to be broken and unhealthy for the game in that position or role.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Am I missing context somewhere? I do not recall Riot ever saying that Yasuo had to play mid-lane and not top...

They usually just recommend champions for particular roles, then the champion hits live and the players find their best or favorite roles for the character and Riot only rebalances them if they turn out to be unfairly dominant in that role or position.

I'm pretty sure that they only pidgeon-hole champions out of certain things when they turn out to be broken and unhealthy for the game in that position or role.

They just said so in their latest origins story about Yasuo. This just comes in with all of the other list of excuses they are giving over why they are changing yasuo when everyone knows it's from low elo players complaining.

RalanrJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They just said so in their latest origins story about Yasuo. This just comes in with all of the other list of excuses they are giving over why they are changing yasuo when everyone knows it's from low elo players complaining.

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Bultz

And as we see here, nothing much has changed.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Bultz

And as we see here, nothing much has changed.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/212142416 oh look I can do that too? what your point? Your history is red af.

RalanrJun 30, 20172 votes

Actually looks pretty green but that wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that you're a low elo player complaining about Yasuo, complaining about how low Elo players complain about Yasuo.

It's funny.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Actually looks pretty green but that wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that you're a low elo player complaining about Yasuo.

It's funny.

Low Elo? i played 10 ranked games one season, 3 seasons back, and haven't played ranked on this account in near at all. Like wtf are you even arguing? Stick to the topic, of which your clueless about.

RalanrJun 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Low Elo?** i played 10 ranked games** one season, 3 seasons back, and haven't played ranked on this account in near at all. Like wtf are you even arguing? Stick to the topic, of which your clueless about.

Ten ranked games gets you like...silver at best. Which is low elo.

You're honestly trolling right now aren't you?

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ten ranked games gets you like...silver at best. Which is low elo.

You're honestly trolling right now aren't you?

I played 10 games and had like 3 s ranks and 2 a's and a b in there, while the others I had a team who fed super hard and lost in the first 5 minutes. Ranked is based on winning, not individual performance so it doesn't place you by your skill and thats why I don't play it.

RalanrJun 30, 20172 votes

But it still means you're stuck in low elo.

So you are indeed a low elo yasuo main complaining about low elo Yasuo and how low elo players complain about Yasuo.

Yo Dawg I heard you like low elo Yasuo.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But it still means you're stuck in low elo.

So you are indeed a low elo yasuo main complaining about low elo Yasuo and how low elo players complain about Yasuo.

Yo Dawg I heard you like low elo Yasuo.

I don't play ranked, why would I bother playing ranked if it's not of my own merit. As for stuck, I can easily climb, not really that hard. Like your logic is that of a toddler.

RalanrJun 30, 20172 votes

[deleted]

RalanrJun 30, 20173 votes

You seem to have some inclination to think I care about your opinion. I do not, I am just (well in the past anyway, I've given up because you're too dense) telling you that your arguments frankly suck and only fuel the flames of actually hating Yasuo.

You're not actively helping your champion, you're just another main making it worse by bashing everyone else because "they are too bad so they complain."

Well buddy, you're complaining. That's frankly all you do in gameplay (I prefer talking with you on Story, but even there you're very overhyped on things) and it makes you look more shallow than the rest of us.

So no, I will not engage in a dick size competition in game because I know I'm not great and have nothing to gain from beating you. You won't stop being a jackass.

Sahn UzalJun 30, 20173 votes

You know, I have a lot of respect for Low ELO players who activly try to improve. I don't have an issue with low ELO players who play the game casually. I have no respect for low ELO players who make up some dumb excuse to claim that they belong higher than they are.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkvEE7l5,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-30T22:56:40.837+0000)

You know, I have a lot of respect for Low ELO players who activly try to improve. I don't have an issue with low ELO players who play the game casually. I have no respect for low ELO players who make up some dumb excuse to claim that they belong higher than they are.

I don't know why your addressing this to me since i don't play ranked on this account? As for low elo, come play against me and then call me bad m8.

Sahn UzalJun 30, 20174 votes

Don't worry, your posts are all the evidence I need.

Are you challenging me to a 1v1?

Any remotely competent player knows that being able to win a 1v1 does not make you a better player. But if you'd like to try, get an EUW account and add me here :)

Sahn UzalJun 30, 20173 votes

Are we talking about League of Legends or are we talking about Mortal Kombat?

AhristocatsJun 30, 20175 votes

league has macro involved

macro is being able to take decisions into a teamgame

and you cannot evaluate macro in an 1v1 jfc

HalcyonDwellerJun 30, 20172 votes

Found the article. I think that if it is unhealthy for the game then it is a fair concern of Riot's, and it's fair for them to want to rework it.

Maybe they should do the same for marksmen, but marksmen having those problems is not an excuse to leave Yasuo with those problems as well.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Found the article. I think that if it is unhealthy for the game then it is a fair concern of Riot's, and it's fair for them to want to rework it.

Maybe they should do the same for marksmen, but marksmen having those problems is not an excuse to leave Yasuo with those problems as well.

What probelms? He is at a 50% winrate. Has a ton of counters. Has no huge win rate spike and is only good with those who are invested in him. basically the ideal for Riot. They are changing him for low elo complainers.

HalcyonDwellerJun 30, 20173 votes

He places a high burden of skill on the opponent. They have to know a lot, and think/work harder mechanically in order to play well against him.

That is why he stomps lower elo players, because they do not have the foundations and mechanical habits of higher level players. For a game that Riot has tried to make accessible to casual and competitive players alike, that sort of burden is terrible for the game's health.

BultzJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

He places a high burden of skill on the opponent. They have to know a lot, and think/work harder mechanically in order to play well against him.

That is why he stomps lower elo players, because they do not have the foundations and mechanical habits of higher level players. For a game that Riot has tried to make accessible to casual and competitive players alike, that sort of burden is terrible for the game's health.

And? You think I'm not working harder then they are when all they have to do is range poke me, cc me into the ground? Playing down to sedated players is a sick mentality. Yes he is good in low elo, many champions are, but that is all. He still remains at a 50% win rate. Riot has stated they won't balance around low elo, but they clearly are because I don't see anyone skilled crying how they got stomped.

HalcyonDwellerJun 30, 20172 votes

I think that it is harder to play against a champion that you don't understand fully than it is to play as that champion when you've practiced them multiple times.

Yasuo is harder to learn how to play against than most champions.

Additionally, maybe Riot still doesn't balance around low elo for the most part. Maybe this is a special case because of how unplayable Yasuo is (due to being permabanned). Maybe the fact that he is perma-banned is just a problem they want to fix so that people who like the champion can enjoy him again.

Honestly, no matter what their reason, I think it will be better for Yasuo overall because at least he won't be permabanned after the rework. One can hope anyway.