Just because you can't learn to deal with something, doesn't mean balance team is incompetent

Kuponya·Jul 19, 2019·2 votes·1,102 views

But when hotfixes are required, that's a different story.

8 Comments

KanzlerJul 19, 20192 votes

No, but actually. They are.

EybdoogJul 19, 20191 votes

Game is 100% broken. Not completely broken but it is 100% for sure not not broken

Tuition FeeJul 19, 20191 votes

I'll agree 50/50. It's not the balance team's fault that people are hardstuck; a competent player who deserves to climb will learn the meta and go with it. But when you look at champions like former Leblanc or Shaco , you see clear power discrepancies that should not be happening. Of course, the Riot balancing team is only human, and I don't think I have the right to criticize them much more than this, as I don't know the slightest thing about making a video game.

IllabetheJul 19, 20191 votes

The problem with this sentiment: A game takes FIVE PEOPLE "learning to deal with something." At best, any game only has 2 1/2 who know how to "deal with something." The other 2 1/2 feed so hard that "dealing with something" is no longer possible.

Zero ShingetsuJul 20, 20191 votes

Let me put it this way.

Let's say a sword is extremely tip-heavy. With enough practice, you can learn to compensate for that and can probably fight just as effectively as an opponent with a properly balanced sword. However, does that mean your sword is balanced? Does that mean your swordsmith is competent? No, it does not.

If Riot wants to make League a competitive sport, they have a responsibility to make a game that provides as even a playing field as humanly possible. Every competitive sport needs to provide an even playing field. It's a player's individual talent or skill that should carry him to victory, not his ability to exploit balance issues in the game.

Thus, I would argue in the reverse: Just because you can learn to deal with it doesn't mean it's balanced. And Riot's balance team is literally paid to create a balanced experience.

KuponyaJul 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JiARL2cE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-07-20T00:56:48.356+0000)

Let me put it this way.

Let's say a sword is extremely tip-heavy. With enough practice, you can learn to compensate for that and can probably fight just as effectively as an opponent with a properly balanced sword. However, does that mean your sword is balanced? Does that mean your swordsmith is competent? No, it does not.

If Riot wants to make League a competitive sport, they have a responsibility to make a game that provides as even a playing field as humanly possible. Every competitive sport needs to provide an even playing field. It's a player's individual talent or skill that should carry him to victory, not his ability to exploit balance issues in the game.

Thus, I would argue in the reverse: Just because you can learn to deal with it doesn't mean it's balanced. And Riot's balance team is literally paid to create a balanced experience.

Your argument assumes a bias in that the champion is something isn't balanced already.

A more fitting is that someone claims a sword is extremely tip-heavy. With enough practice, they "learn to compensate" for that and can probably fight just as effectively as an opponent with an equally balanced sword. They then go on claiming they "mastered" this flawed sword. Does that mean the sword was actually flawed? No, because feelings don't determine whether a sword is balanced or not.

Zero ShingetsuJul 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Your argument assumes a bias in that the champion is something isn't balanced already.

A more fitting is that someone claims a sword is extremely tip-heavy. With enough practice, they "learn to compensate" for that and can probably fight just as effectively as an opponent with an equally balanced sword. They then go on claiming they "mastered" this flawed sword. Does that mean the sword was actually flawed? No, because feelings don't determine whether a sword is balanced or not.

When hundreds of swordsmen swing the sword and claim it's tip-heavy, it's probably tip-heavy. The stronger ones may not feel it as much as the weaker ones, but if that many people are having trouble on the recovery, the swordsmith didn't do his job properly.

I used this analogy because your point in the title seemed to be "Quit saying things are unbalanced when you get just get good." I argue that this is true of mechanical things, but not numerical things. For someone to say that Yi being able to Alpha Strike out of trouble almost at will is unbalanced? That's an opinion. There are ways to prevent or play around that (for example, waiting to fire your CC until after he Alpha Strikes). But to say that Yi can consistently outheal four opponents' damage by himself in the late game? That's numerical, and no champion should be capable of doing this. At least not without tremendous effort on the player's part.

KuponyaJul 20, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JiARL2cE,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-07-20T07:30:21.911+0000)

When hundreds of swordsmen swing the sword and claim it's tip-heavy, it's probably tip-heavy. The stronger ones may not feel it as much as the weaker ones, but if that many people are having trouble on the recovery, the swordsmith didn't do his job properly.

I used this analogy because your point in the title seemed to be "Quit saying things are unbalanced when you get just get good." I argue that this is true of mechanical things, but not numerical things. For someone to say that Yi being able to Alpha Strike out of trouble almost at will is unbalanced? That's an opinion. There are ways to prevent or play around that (for example, waiting to fire your CC until after he Alpha Strikes). But to say that Yi can consistently outheal four opponents' damage by himself in the late game? That's numerical, and no champion should be capable of doing this. At least not without tremendous effort on the player's part.

Except in a counter analogy, if millions of swordsmen swing the sword and deny the claim, it's probably not tip-heavy.

If someone says that Yi can Alpha Strike out of trouble almost at will is unbalanced, then they are making a claim. To say that Yi can consistently outheal four opponents' damage by himself in the late game is also still a claim. Saying one is opinion and one is numerical is irrelevant when the basis of both of them is a claim that such scenarios are unfair.

Both scenarios can be played around, except in the "numerical" claim, the matter is entirely subjective to the situation and the refusal to match it.