Riot's balancing team: "We want more counterplay"

Astôlfo·Dec 28, 2016·86 votes·5,803 views

"Hi." presses W

165 Comments

PennsDec 28, 201668 votes

Im sure thatll get changed once he gets rew... wait Kappa

AstôlfoDec 28, 201656 votes

The 918247th time has to be the charm, right?

JbelsDec 28, 201642 votes

Yasuo "Hi"

Can pretty much do whatever the fuck he wants as soon as he gets to his two item 100% crit powerspike since Warlords lets him tank towers for 10 minutes

MarshbouyDec 28, 201617 votes

When you go so deep into the hyperbole zone that it's no longer funny and just makes you look like a salty idiot.

GULAG 4 UDec 28, 201630 votes

Eh I thought it was a known fact that crying bullshit about yasuo has a 90% chance to get you upvotes even if you're saying retarded shit

MarshbouyDec 28, 20168 votes

It is a known fact but that doesn't make it any more ridiculous.

GULAG 4 UDec 28, 201614 votes

These comments are considered logic by the board so there's nothing to do about it

And great Nelson mandela said it: it's hard to win an argument against smart people, but damn near impossible and against dumb people. Best thing to do is to ignore and move on.

LeetriDec 28, 20167 votes

Arguing with stupid people is pointless because they're too stupid to realize how stupid they are. Pretty sure that's paraphrased from John Cleese, but either way it's the Dunning-Kruger effect at work. Incompetent people tend to overestimate how smart they actually are.

TurquoiseYoshiDec 29, 201613 votes

I personally like the quote, "Arguing like a stupid person is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon will shit all over the board and strut around like it won anyway."

DunkinNoobsDec 28, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Koichi Pose,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Jg25npNP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-28T18:06:50.982+0000)

"Hi"

Can pretty much do whatever the fuck he wants as soon as he gets to his two item 100% crit powerspike since Warlords lets him tank towers for 10 minutes

I fucking wish man. That would be sweet.

Sraeg2013Dec 28, 20167 votes

You are right. He only needs half the full build and he can tank towers.

No, he can't tank towers.

Logan2605Dec 29, 20161 votes

Uh, he can ult without taking tower agro, his shield he gets for nothing more then moving is gonna block the one tower shot he might take, and if he takes two, well it doesn't matter because you're dead.

Sraeg2013Dec 29, 20163 votes

Uh, he can ult without taking tower agro

So if a champion can damage people outside their tower range in any way, shape or form, they "tank" towers.

What the fuck.

SerberDec 28, 201639 votes

[deleted]

A serial feederDec 29, 201610 votes

Range does, also tanks

Sexy Jack RabbitDec 29, 20166 votes

item 3102 item 3053 item 3814 item 3001 item 3140 item 3139 item 3156 ? Not too mention a giant billboard that says "STUN INCOMING!" And the fact you should be keeping track of her Flash CD.

Buttigieg 2020Dec 29, 201612 votes

No... That would be pedophelia

Sire HippingtonDec 28, 201624 votes

"We want more counterplay"

'Marksmen, succesfully right-clicking since 2009'

MelledoneusDec 29, 20162 votes

Do you remember when ADCs started right-clicking to win?

Pepperidge Farm does. Kinda. It started back in open beta...

AcidTheWarlockDec 28, 201615 votes

Varus Hi.

presses W

nothing happens

Varus Awwww

VerdadeDec 28, 20169 votes

Vayne Q_Q

5000000000000000Dec 28, 20166 votes

Teemo

Sraeg2013Dec 28, 20165 votes

TwistedFate Hi.

Presses E.

TwistedFate Aw, crap baskets.

MLDzXnRRRDec 28, 20169 votes

Vayne presses W. Oh, wait, she has a passive, not a real skill.

PureUtterCancerDec 28, 20163 votes

Vayne players in bronze:

Vayne Continue pressing w rapidly regardless.

BârdDec 28, 20168 votes

Reliable CC and damage is necessary.

Like it or not, things like Ryze W, Annie stun, Vi ult, and Naut ult ARE the counterplay to mobile carries.

PureUtterCancerDec 28, 201610 votes

The problem is not with ryze's w, but with his insane burst and dps, he should just have dps like a proper battle mage, not two shot most semi squishy champs. When ryze w is the counter to all champs healthbars and not just mobile adc's, that 's the problem.

PaladinNODec 28, 20168 votes

Riot's balancing team: "We want more counterplay"

Really? Then why is "Mark" still in ARAM? NOTHING can counter that. :| Long range dash, damage, untargetability, engage, escape, ignoring walls and shields...what a healthy ability.

I had 5000 ARAM matches played at the time of its release, and it was never something I had missed. Besides, we had the Guardian's Horn active (RIP). All the MS burst a melee bruiser needed to get close and get the job done. Melee fighters? They usually have a gapclosing ability.

Besides, it's called "ARAM" for a reason. Random. All I did was suck it up and play. Some matches were won, and some were lost. Just as it should be. Even won multiple games against pure-poke games. 12 minutes of harassment and biding our time and outscaling them before 8 minutes of domination and a truly heartwarming victory.

Mark should have stayed with the Poro King mode.

Good thing we all are allowed to have an opinion here without fear of "fuck you" downvotes...

LatetotheRaceDec 28, 20168 votes

Because it makes aram more eventful and fair for melee champions?

GayFluffyUnicornDec 28, 201611 votes

Because mark is the counterplay to ranged champs.

Ulquiorra995Dec 28, 20167 votes

Mark IS a counterplay option by itself. Before it ARAM was decided solely by "who gets more broken poke/heal champions in their team" factor.

Oh, and it's also a thin skillshot with medium projectile speed a hefty cooldown if it misses. Gee, I wonder what could possibly be counterplay to that?

Mistress MadokaDec 29, 20168 votes

There's an Easy Counter to Mark/Dash

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/81/81e3d6dec977eb427f7e6783ef533593e2b9270c4004f4c03b135287e4c235fa.jpg

LichKing234Dec 29, 20162 votes

TF4star picillio would be proud XD

Sraeg2013Dec 29, 20163 votes

Too bad 99% of League players haven't trained under Piccolo.

Pale PirateDec 28, 20166 votes

I think they forgot that whole "counterplay" thing when they reworked Syndra and Veigar.

LA LostyDec 29, 20168 votes

Veigar had even less counterplay before id say, and way back before they changed his E it was instant, which was ridiculous.

TotalJerkDec 29, 201614 votes

Delaying Veigar's instant stun and making his Q a skillshot was forgetting about counterplay?

TheOvermindDec 29, 20166 votes

That's probably the best iteration of ryze we have ever gotten, but he is pick/ban in competitive once again .... for the third time....

across all the reworks he has gotten , one thing has stayed the same: insta point and click root

that has to be the common denominator riot.

Alex h8721Dec 28, 20165 votes

Only to make it 2s you have to be fluxed, that is short range and definitely avoidable, also any champ w/ range can still hit him while SNARED.

Seriously, play ryze a bit, he has counterplay.

But if youre against ryze and your whole team stands close together and all get fluxed don't ask why "ryze did so much damage waaaaaah" Lmao.

His Optimal CC (2s root), optimal burst, and aoe waveclear are ALL situational and have counterplay. If you learned the champ you would realize this, Yes he can be/is strong when the ryze player understands him, but there is counterplay if you learn how he works you will understand it better.

If you want to complain about a lack of counterplay, consider Camille ult, lee sin R>Q combo (which is on him to miss), or Annie's ult combo which the counterplay is "buy maw/stay out of her range"

Smh I find all these complaint threads about ryze laughable but also highly disappointing.

AstôlfoDec 28, 20164 votes

smh

I'm talking about his point and click instantaneous root.

Alex h8721Dec 28, 20165 votes

B/c ryze is the only champ w/ point and click CC? and B/c a root is clearly the "best" form of cc.

Also its relatively short range (counterplay), and as I said in my post, to make it optimal (2sec duration rather than 1s) you need the target to be fluxed which has counterplay.

But nah, lets downvote my post as though I had just said "git gud"

rtbf76109271Dec 28, 20168 votes

I believe his is in fact the only champion with an instant, ranged point and click root/stun on a basic ability, which goes over top of minions

Annie is the next closest but the q travel time is long enough for you to dash/run backwards and she has a billboard over her head saying "i can stun you now"

SqkergDec 29, 20162 votes

It does have like a 17 second cd or some shit, also his main damaging proc can't go through minions

MarshbouyDec 28, 20165 votes

I think that he would be easier to balance if they toned down his tank.

Teridax68Dec 28, 201637 votes

I kinda feel the opposite way: if Ryze kept his shield, but instead had a lot less burst, he'd be a proper battle mage, and his point-and-click root would also become more acceptable, since he wouldn't be able to kill his target within the second or two of crowd control it would provide. Ryze is meant to be a machine gun mage, and so mainly DPS-based, but 370 (+ 90% AP) damage in a single instance definitely qualifies as burst, even if it's the bulk of his damage.

MelledoneusDec 29, 20162 votes

Would you be fine with his Q firing in a three round burst like Riven's Q?

Teridax68Dec 29, 20162 votes

With changes elsewhere on his kit, maybe, but right now his Q is already more or less designed to have little to no cooldown. If nothing else, you can EQEQ your target and, because of the cooldown reset, your Q ends up firing around every 2.25 seconds, less with CDR. Ryze already has the tools in his kit lay down spammable damage, it's just that right now he's kind of pushed towards single-target burst, when he'd be much better off with easier DPS and perhaps more of an emphasis on hitting multiple enemies, as was the case with his old ult.

Personally, I think it might be worth actually removing his Q cooldown completely, and instead making recently hit enemies temporarily immune to its effects, with Rune Prison and Spell Flux "cleansing" the mark. Effectively, Ryze would have no pause to his Q uptime, and could switch targets more readily, but would deal the same single-target damage. With this, though, he should likely have his Q range reduced, as it currently works as poke and safe last-hitting in lane (and he doesn't really need either).

GorgiolioDec 29, 20164 votes

He used to have way shorter range, which kinda made his concept easier to deal with. And his only wave clear required him too use his ult. However, now that he has more utility, pressure, and damage. Along with extra survivability, he just becomes more of a problem.

God Went MIADec 29, 20162 votes

They say that and then make camille's ult which literally says it has no counterplay in the description

TrenditionDec 29, 20166 votes

That's not true. There are several ways to counter play Camille when in her out.

The only one bonded to the ult is you. The ult deactivates when you die, timer is up, or Camille leaves the ring. If you can hold your own(too Tammy) for the time being it'll end. If you kill her the ult is over. Finally if you knock her out of the ring the ult finishes early.

So of course there is counterplay. Does she do a lot of damage? Yes there are ways to counter her ult and even her abilities.