PSA: Master Yi is a better split pusher than Tryndamere right now

Critkeeper··11 votes·2,390 views

10 reasons:

  1. he obliterates tanks faster than anyone in the game, bar none. You can kill a full tank malphite (randuins, frozen heart, guardians, tabi, w/e else) in about 6 seconds. Tryndamere takes ages to kill something that tanky if he can do it at all (malphite and nasus give him issues).
  2. he takes turrets faster. you can't crit a tower, but you can double strike it.
  3. his early game is so underrated you can actually cheese people who don't expect wuju damage if you lane master yi
  4. master yi cannot be kited, but tryndamere can be
  5. it used to be that the reason Tryndamere was still king of the split push was because his ultimate has irreplaceable value, but by stacking tabi, phantom dancer and deaths dance, your durability vs most people in a 1v1 is high enough as master yi to displace the value of Tryndamre's ultimate, when you take into account master yi's other strengths.
  6. there is plainly no way to itemize against master yi. you cannot slow his attack speed, and you cannot reduce the on hit true damage (which can be upwards of 150 per hit at end game, with effectively 5 hits per second)
  7. he is a lot better in a team fight than tryndamere is because he's not as predictable, so if you do have to put the split on pause, master yi is much more of an asset than tryndamere is
  8. combining all of the above points, and typically master yi will kill more people on a suicide dive before he dies than tryndamere will-- it comes down the the damage reduction from his items, avoiding damage and cc with alpha strike, cancelling burst with meditate and just doing around two to four times more damage than tryndamere, depending on how tanky the target is-- all that combined with ability resets. In other words, 2v1 or 3v1 against Trynd is probably less scary than 2v1 or 3v1 against master yi, because master yi will almost certainly kill someone before dying but Tryndamere might not.
  9. if tryndamere wants to group fight he pretty much has to dive the back line because his kit doesn't give him the tools to do substantial damage to the front line, assuming they build the items they ought to build vs him. Master yi has better target selection because he can easily kill any front liner, even an ulted alistar.
  10. basically the item system is more usable to master yi than it is to tryndamere; he scales better and becomes scarier as a split pusher

40 Comments

archerno14 votes

Well if we compare champs like that Jax is better than both of them.

Critkeeper2 votes

{quoted}

Well if we compare champs like that Jax is better than both of them.

I would have thought so, but Jax's high durability + moderate sustained damage isn't as good as Master yi's moderate durability + absurdly high sustained damage. Master yi isn't supposed to have moderate durability, but thats what he gets with phantom dancer, ninja tabi and deaths dance.

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

I would have thought so, but Jax's high durability + moderate sustained damage isn't as good as Master yi's moderate durability + absurdly high sustained damage. Master yi isn't supposed to have moderate durability, but thats what he gets with phantom dancer, ninja tabi and deaths dance.

Ye but Jax only needs Triforce to be successful splitpusher. Jax is laner so he will have TP pressure while Yi is jungler. Yi is easy to shut down early.

Critkeeper2 votes

{quoted}

Ye but Jax only needs Triforce to be successful splitpusher. Jax is laner so he will have TP pressure while Yi is jungler. Yi is easy to shut down early.

people say that about nasus but he still becomes godlike late game

the thing with yi is even if you start smashing him in lane he can just max meditate and rush deaths dance. If you turret dive him he will kill you before you kill him, and if you turret dive him with an ally he will still kill one of you before you kill him. If you spend all your cc on him to make it so you can kill him under tower despite the extra few seconds he will get out of deaths dance, he will just meditate. There isn't any two champions who can kill yi with a max meditate that early in the game under tower without cc.

so basically he's deceptively safe

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

people say that about nasus but he still becomes godlike late game

the thing with yi is even if you start smashing him in lane he can just max meditate and rush deaths dance. If you turret dive him he will kill you before you kill him, and if you turret dive him with an ally he will still kill one of you before you kill him. If you spend all your cc on him to make it so you can kill him under tower despite the extra few seconds he will get out of deaths dance, he will just meditate. There isn't any two champions who can kill yi with a max meditate that early in the game under tower without cc.

so basically he's deceptively safe

Wait, we are talking about lane Yi here or jungle Yi?

LyingOnLine2 votes

lul W max Yi lul

Enjoy losing every trade while your heal is on a 30 second CD after the last trade you lost.

I Ban Freelo 1 votes

{quoted}

nasus

godlike late game

nope

Critkeeper1 votes

{quoted}

nope

yup

A Basic Island1 votes

jax can't really clear the waves that quickly unlike yi or tryn.

Penns4 votes

Mister yi doesnt have as good wave clear and no mobility tho unless you use his ult to run away I guess

Critkeeper3 votes

{quoted}

Mister yi doesnt have as good wave clear and no mobility tho unless you use his ult to run away I guess

he clears waves with one q and three autos

Yaśuo Main2 votes

more than 3 autos but less than 10

SexyBabyJesusZ3 votes

yi can be kited with any hard cc

whats exactly your point?

Critkeeper10 votes

Master yi can avoid cc with alpha.

In general ANY champion can be kited with hard cc.

In your own words:

{quoted}

whats exactly your point?

Ahristocats3 votes

most of master yi players will use it as a gap closer tho

it's rare to find a clever yi player sadly

Alex h87211 votes

yeah, sadly this is facts, his Q should definitely be saved for dodging hard CC since that is his biggest kryptonite.

DeathBurst4 votes

OP explains why Master Yi is not trash

"This champ is trash if it isn't played correctly."

Yeaaahh, I guess? That's kinda true of, hummm, let's see... every champ? Thanks for your very useful contribution.

Ahristocats3 votes

i guess you can't read what i said?

because i only said it's a shame that most yi players are dumb

your contribution is to not talk at all if you don't get this post

Joxcab4 votes

So you just hit him a second time the moment he comes out? And unlike most other champions, Yi dies pretty much instantly if he gets CC'd.

nice table3 votes

well then go ahead and play master yi top i really wanna see how that works out for you cause you will get absolutely destroyed by almost every top laner.

e46 Fanatic2 votes

I don't have any legit suggestions in mind, but I think they need to do something with Yi's Q. Maybe take the 1sec CD reduction to 0.5 sec per basic attack, his Q evades abilities too often, making it even harder to kite considering in a few basic attacks he's right up on you again with that Q. Just my basic opinion

Veltox2 votes

Don't compare Yi with a abomination in desperate need of a rework.

PePsiLemoNN2 votes

He is not :

  1. He is useless and can be killed if behind while you need 2 people to kill a behind trynd.
Sire Hippington2 votes

The main issue is that Tryn has a pretty strong lane, and even if he doesn't win it he atleast is rather save. He also has alot more escape if he gets colapsed on.

Yi may have cheese ways to kill early, but if your opponent calls the cheese, you will have a poor early, and if hard cc is invloved, your a much easier target fo ganks than tryn.

Critkeeper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JazYjM9u,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-05-17T17:29:15.728+0000)

The main issue is that Tryn has a pretty strong lane, and even if he doesn't win it he atleast is rather save. He also has alot more escape if he gets colapsed on.

Yi may have cheese ways to kill early, but if your opponent calls the cheese, you will have a poor early, and if hard cc is invloved, your a much easier target fo ganks than tryn.

this is pretty accurate

i'd say people underestimate yi in lane though, so he has that going for him

PeepingPeafowl2 votes

Tryndamere is way better at tower diving and escaping than Yi is and his level 1-2 is also way better if you get a crit. Being able to strip the enemy jungle while the wave is pushed out, and jump over walls to escape if they collapse on you is huge. Hes also manaless with a self heal so he can apply map pressure for longer without having to back.

Yi scales better and can kill tanks quick sure, but early game and safety means alot.

Scary Door2 votes

{quoted}

10 reasons:

  1. he obliterates tanks faster than anyone in the game, bar none. You can kill a full tank malphite (randuins, frozen heart, guardians, tabi, w/e else) in about 6 seconds. Tryndamere takes ages to kill something that tanky if he can do it at all (malphite and nasus give him issues).

That doesn't really have anything to do with being a good split pusher though. Master Yi's true damage makes him better suited for fighting champions, while Trynd makes him better suited for strictly pushing waves. So this almost directly counters your first reason for split pushing Yi.

  1. he takes turrets faster. you can't crit a tower, but you can double strike it.

True. Although Trynd can continue to hit a tower with no waves around and ult if he has to just to finish taking it down.

  1. his early game is so underrated you can actually cheese people who don't expect wuju damage if you lane master yi

Um. You can level 1 or 2 cheese with Trynd just as easily with free 35% crit chance. Again, this has NOTHING to do with split pushing.

  1. master yi cannot be kited, but tryndamere can be

Debatable. Trynd has a dash, Master Yi has alpha strike and his ult. Once again though, this has NOTHING to do with split pushing. I'm starting to think that you don't know what those words mean.

  1. it used to be that the reason Tryndamere was still king of the split push was because his ultimate has irreplaceable value, but by stacking tabi, phantom dancer and deaths dance, your durability vs most people in a 1v1 is high enough as master yi to displace the value of Tryndamre's ultimate, when you take into account master yi's other strengths.

Trynd can just as easily take those items. A good Tryndamere doesn't even fight enemy champions, if someone decides to go after him while he is split pushing then he has the tools to delete them, in some cases, but normally he'll just dash away (over a wall) and be off to another lane to push relentlessly.

  1. there is plainly no way to itemize against master yi. you cannot slow his attack speed, and you cannot reduce the on hit true damage (which can be upwards of 150 per hit at end game, with effectively 5 hits per second)

When Yi's ult is down you can still mitigate his damage output, plus hard CC still takes him down pretty effectively.

  1. he is a lot better in a team fight than tryndamere is because he's not as predictable, so if you do have to put the split on pause, master yi is much more of an asset than tryndamere is

But this sort of goes against why he's a better split pusher. He's definitely capable of both, but I think Yi is still a good teamfighter with the right comp. I'm not here to say Yi is a bad split pusher, not at all, but Trynd is basically relegated to that spot and can do it more effectively.

  1. combining all of the above points, and typically master yi will kill more people on a suicide dive before he dies than tryndamere will-- it comes down the the damage reduction from his items, avoiding damage and cc with alpha strike, cancelling burst with meditate and just doing around two to four times more damage than tryndamere, depending on how tanky the target is-- all that combined with ability resets. In other words, 2v1 or 3v1 against Trynd is probably less scary than 2v1 or 3v1 against master yi, because master yi will almost certainly kill someone before dying but Tryndamere might not.

But that's the thing, Trynd doesn't need to do a suicide dive, he has an easy escape over the wall. Trynd is very difficult to catch if played properly and is almost impossible to kill in ordinary circumstances because of his ability to ult and get away. Trynd is far more slippery than Master Yi.

  1. if tryndamere wants to group fight he pretty much has to dive the back line because his kit doesn't give him the tools to do substantial damage to the front line, assuming they build the items they ought to build vs him. Master yi has better target selection because he can easily kill any front liner, even an ulted alistar.

You make it sound like Trynd is incapable of taking down tanks/fighters. He is capable, but once again a good Tryndamere isn't going to team fight very often in the late game. Which is exactly the reason that he's just a better split pusher.

  1. basically the item system is more usable to master yi than it is to tryndamere; he scales better and becomes scarier as a split pusher

This I would actually agree with. Master Yi benefits from so many more items than Tryndamere, but that's an overall game balance/health issue than it is a split push issue.

A Basic Island1 votes

this is something i can agree with.

1 tricked tryn for a little while and atm im trying to learn yi and yas in the jungle.

Played yi for the first time in awhile (since way before AP yi) and was very surprised how strong my early dueling was. Not saying it was strong by any means, but it's not like i was a butterknife.

The JigSAW1 votes

Just my opinion but they both need a nerf, only Tryn's would be limited entirely to being able to die instead of having 5 seconds to stomp people under their own turret.

For the people who say hard CC is the solution to Yi, I invite you to hard CC him when he has at least three full items charging at you, unable to be slowed, and can just hit W after a stun or knockup to maintain his ult time and proc his passive and then obliterate you and get seven more seconds of bull.

NO ASSASSIN needs true damage in their kit, period. Done.

Alex h87211 votes

yi is a skirmisher not an assassin, assassins have a way in and back out, yi only has a way in. Also he has more consistent damage rather than burst

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

Don't forget, even if you build thornmail he can just build lifesteal and ignore that too.

paisy1 votes

I wanna play Yi more in lane, do you have any tips?

Critkeeper1 votes

{quoted}

I wanna play Yi more in lane, do you have any tips?

let them push to your tower and farm there, you are incredibly safe at tower.

you can harass with q by bouncing it off minions, so remember to do that

don't be afraid to trade with the enemy, just make sure you active wuju style it basically turns you into irelia in the laning phase

and lastly, remember you scale better than your opponent, so just going even in lane is a win

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

{quoted}

10 reasons:

  1. he obliterates tanks faster than anyone in the game, bar none.

Bar none? That's a bit of a stretch. Any well-stacked Nasus deletes far faster, taking between 2 and 6 Qs against anyone not itemized specifically against you. Even less if you build item 3036 like an asshole.

  1. he takes turrets faster. you can't crit a tower, but you can double strike it.

True, but crit items usually give more attack speed. This means Trynd will have more AS against it. He also clears faster than Yi.

  1. his early game is so underrated you can actually cheese people who don't expect wuju damage if you lane master yi

Debatable. You don't want to rely on a lack of knowledge to win.

  1. master yi cannot be kited, but tryndamere can be

Yi can only avoid being kited during his ult. Tryndamere has a slow and a dash.

  1. it used to be that the reason Tryndamere was still king of the split push was because his ultimate has irreplaceable value, but by stacking tabi, phantom dancer and deaths dance, your durability vs most people in a 1v1 is high enough as master yi to displace the value of Tryndamre's ultimate, when you take into account master yi's other strengths.

infinite sustain isn't immortality. 3 items is not better than an ult (and Trynd will likely buy two of those, anyways). Besides, sustain is useless against turrets, unless your name is Akali.

  1. there is plainly no way to itemize against master yi. you cannot slow his attack speed, and you cannot reduce the on hit true damage (which can be upwards of 150 per hit at end game, with effectively 5 hits per second)

You can slow his attack speed, and you can buy item 3075 and item 3047 to reduce most of his incoming damage.

  1. he is a lot better in a team fight than tryndamere is because he's not as predictable, so if you do have to put the split on pause, master yi is much more of an asset than tryndamere is

Tryndamere isn't insta-killed by a single bit of CC, Yi is. And Yi is one of the most predictable champions there are. His only options to do anything are Q or auto.

  1. combining all of the above points, and typically master yi will kill more people on a suicide dive before he dies than tryndamere will-- it comes down the the damage reduction from his items, avoiding damage and cc with alpha strike, cancelling burst with meditate and just doing around two to four times more damage than tryndamere, depending on how tanky the target is-- all that combined with ability resets. In other words, 2v1 or 3v1 against Trynd is probably less scary than 2v1 or 3v1 against master yi, because master yi will almost certainly kill someone before dying but Tryndamere might not.

Tryndamere may not kill as many, but he's certain to not die. 1 for 0 is better than 3 for 1.

  1. if tryndamere wants to group fight he pretty much has to dive the back line because his kit doesn't give him the tools to do substantial damage to the front line, assuming they build the items they ought to build vs him. Master yi has better target selection because he can easily kill any front liner, even an ulted alistar.

item 3036 is an item anyone can buy. It makes you do damage to tanks.

  1. basically the item system is more usable to master yi than it is to tryndamere; he scales better and becomes scarier as a split pusher

Except Tryndamere can just ignore you and destroy the turret anyways. Not as many kills, but you don't split-push for kills. You split-push for turrets.

Critkeeper2 votes

{quoted}

Bar none? That's a bit of a stretch. Any well-stacked Nasus deletes far faster, taking between 2 and 6 Qs against anyone not itemized specifically against you. Even less if you build item 3036 like an asshole.

stopped reading right here

if you think for a moment that nasus' damage is even remotely in the same ballpark as master yi, then you don't know what the hell you are talking about

"2 to 6 q's"

thats 3 to 11 seconds.

master yi can kill the tankiest champion in the game building the tankiest items in the game-- an ulting alistar with full tank build, in 6 seconds.

basically he just does on hits 5 times a second with rageblade and his wuju hits for ~120 per hit if he builds a decent amount of attack damage, so thats 600 true damage per second, which is 3600 true damage in 6 seconds, and a nutty amount of physical damage.

he can probably kill an entire team in the time it takes nasus to kill one tank.

chipndip11 votes

I mean...but Tryndamere's kit works better in a lane at least?

Also Master Yi needs a decent amount of gold before he starts getting real big boi status.

abca981 votes

So... Yi's R also makes impossible to reduce his attack speed?

Meep Man1 votes

Yes

Meep Man1 votes

Tryndamere is better at escaping and dueling champions while his R is up, so I disagree. Tryndamere can also be brought into Top Lane a lot better than Yi, allowing him to start pushing his lane from the beginning of the game.

Commando Yi1 votes

trynds strength in split pushing comes from his abilities to clear waves (shyv and spin) and his ability to spin away over walls to safety does it not?

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