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With balance, Riot is SO REFRESHING compared to Blizzard

rtbf76109271··99 votes·9,249 views

Lots of people here give Riot a hard time for balance and design choices, and that's just to be expected since it's a video game and this is its forums. However coming from sc2 some months ago, I have to say... Riot kicks the shit out of the sc2 team.

Reading the 7.4 patch notes addressed everything I had been thinking myself about the game. Which is probably what most people thought in general as its what you usually read about here.

Too much damage = mastery changes Lethality/armor cleave hurts = nerf youmoos and rework cleaver I love teemo = scanners and wards dont make my ult useless Too much snowbally and gangbang bot = less first turret gold fuck maokai, ryze and corki = nerf them

Now back to sc2. There are still massive problems in the game which were there since day one of LOTV beta. Problems which blew my mind they made it into the released game. Problems which are simply ignored, then they rework some random unit and cause more problems. They have a totally different vision of what makes a "fun" map and put maps which everyone hates on ladder (which is evident by their average quality ratings people give them compared to the great maps). Plus it feels like they don't even playtest them, seeing as sometimes they will release a map where larger units cannot fit through certain choke points on the map and just glitch out.

Not only do they cause all these problems and seemingly fix none, they balance patch only 2 or 3 times per year PLUS they communicate about it poorly too. Where riot has explanations for all their changes, and riot employees post here about stuff... blizzard has ONE informal post per 2 or 3 weeks on their forums about balance. Which they do not discuss anything with anyone, they just post and never reply to any comments.

Even looking at hearthstone its not much better. Won't get into it too much, but who would have actually thought a 1 mana 3/2, summon a 1/1 with charge would be balanced?

So ya, just impressed so far and having a good time in league. Started playing in patch 6.10, not too too long ago. Thanks riot

153 Comments

WoonStruck28 votes

One patch and you say Riot's spot-on with their balance changes lol.

Blizzard has had patches like that too.

They both generally tweak the things that don't matter. Riot lets some things go just as long as Blizzard.

Best princess EU5 votes

^

Teridax683 votes

I caught your username on the Diablo 3 forums, I think. My condolences for the ongoing issues with the Roland set...

I also agree, it's easy to cherry-pick which issues get addressed and which ones don't, when the truth is that both Riot and Blizzard are in charge of balancing vastly complex games over a large span of time: often they'll be quick to properly address hot-button issues, and sometimes there'll be problems that won't get touched for months or even years, despite appearing glaringly obvious to many players. Riot's been on the ball with this patch, and Blizzard have implemented patches of their own that significantly improved their games (D3 is a prime example). Idolizing and demonizing game companies in rapid succession generates little more than an endless cycle of frustration, rejection and unrealistic expectations, when the better approach is usually to take each company's development choices with a grain of salt, and diversify across a broad range of games in case one of them goes too far off into the deep end for a time.

Nickssaa2 votes

ICEFROG IS WATCHING

WoonStruck2 votes

D3's pretty far off the deep end right now...lol

Several bugs and issues people talk about with Rolands, but nah. Let's just buff the set's damage % until people stop complaining. :^)

Blåbæret19 votes

Just because it's better than Blizzard doesn't mean it's good; in fact, Riot's balancing is pure trash as seen in the current situation.

Elikain7 votes

What does "pure trash" mean? The fact that you think some things shouldn't exist is not really an issue here. Let's not talk about opinions on the state of the game and how these opinions are bases for "trash balancing" arguments.

bbQsauçe16 votes

[deleted]

rtbf761092713 votes

I would have to assume they are ya. I haven't reinstalled so no idea though. It was obnoxious how long it took to do anything about adepts too.

Here is a video I made on an adept all in I made in beta, before they even changed chronoboost and the macro mechanics. I was high masters, never GM but like top 400 on NA. With this build I had a win rate in the 90's against terran in beta, against many of the best terrans on NA too. Like people I would never beat in HOTS like imeurotrash and avilo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chOz7FtBoak

Basically any decent player who wasn't actively lying to hide OP shit for their race talked about adepts all ins and drops being retarded. But ya lets just keep them as the main thing protoss does for like a full year. That would be great. PvP was 2 gate adepts. PvT was 4 gate adept drops or 7 gate adept. PvZ was 7 gate adept. Or 2 gate adept into stargate. Protoss was literally make adepts, I hated playing it and everyone hated playing against it so you got flamed for it too.

It's sad and disgusting what they did to sc2 and protoss especially

Knalxz8 votes

That's funny because the reason I stopped playing LoL is because Riot changes too much. The game I began to fall int love iwth doesn't exist anymore. Atleast Blizzard understands not to change too much with their updates. Riot seemingly does so for the sake.

Also the Overwatch team is pretty quick to make changes. They've gotten 3 reworks done in a year.

T45KM45T3R1 votes

then came 2.0 to prove you wrong lol.

AninLegions7777 votes

"Started playing in patch 6.10"

Wow. You have so much experience with Riot balance. Tell us, who have played 4+ years, more. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Skins Project2 votes

... I'v also played for 4+ years, and he has a good point. I get you have frustration but you have to understand riot is the lesser of to evils or qualities here. (well lack of) Riot can't cater to everything everyone wanted, if they did there wouldn't be any champions or anything at this point. I get that your irritated, but riot is doing more then most companies do.

Death by Glamour1 votes

So they are making a small step in the right direction after encouraging hard snowballing for 2 or 3 years.

Good for them...

Skins Project2 votes

So it isn't to your style of play. So now what? Just going to complain? If you really want to do something how about you get a job with riot and see how that goes. Balance isn't easy. Satisfy one group Irritate another Do not act as if you or boards is the majority. It is an outspoken minority.

Lord Desert2 votes

Well facts stay the same, even if the so called minority states them... They still are facts. And Riot has encourgaged snowballing, or better say dmg creep, over the years.

I know that 90% or even more of the statements/"facts" are faulty here on the boards, but this one isnt.

Skins Project2 votes

Alright, lets say riot has encouraged snowballing, or damage creep. So?

This is my point, I'm not saying riot isn't doing something I'm saying that just because you don't like it or you and your friends don't like it does not mean that it is wrong. It doesn't even necessarily mean that it's a bad direction or a good one. I'm saying just because you or a group you know does or doesn't like it DOES NOT determine whether it is good or bad.

AninLegions7771 votes

Do not compare yourselves to others. One basic rule in running a company. Comparing prices is different. But just because a company has a health rating of 1 and you have a health rating of 2, doesn't make you any better. I don't play blizzard games. So the comparison is irrelevant. Riot should focus on fixing their stuff.

Skins Project2 votes

Yes but do consider the second part of my statement. If riot were to cater to everyone, still no party would be pleased, and the game would be in a worse state. If every time someone yelled XXX is op needs nerfs, the entire champion pool would have 0 on all their stats.

Nameless Voice6 votes

Yes, it's a patch that goes in the right direction and fixes a lot of the current issues.

However, there are a few problems before you can say that Riot's patching is the best thing ever.

  1. Patches like this that actually fix community pain-points are rather rare.

  2. There are still a lot of outstanding problems that Riot refuse to fix (e.g. Lee Sin dominating the jungle for years because he looks flashy in pro play.)

  3. Rioters like to post about their design values and goals, but often the things that they release either completely ignore them, or outright contravene them.

  4. It often feels like the balance team don't learn from their previous mistakes. They will release a change that makes the game significantly worse / less fun for several patches (or longer), finally admit that it was a mistake and fix it... and then make a similar mistake a few months later.

Oh, and let's not forget, the game is in the state it is now. Yes, this patch may be fixing a lot of issues, but they needed a lot of poor patches that didn't address issues or made things worse before the game could even get into this state in the first place.

Ahristocats5 votes

{quoted}

Reading the 7.4 patch notes addressed

it would be nice if it fixed it completly so let's see if 7.4 will fixe: -lethality -edge of the kappa -damage creep -10 sec teamfight 10-20 min games

doodlebob6662 votes

its a positive step but i'm putting my eggs in the tank update basket in regards for damage creep

Karhtel2 votes

At least they are addressing it..just be happy that they are taking the steps necessary to fix things. Fixing damage creep isnt as simple as it may seem. Fixing lethality isnt as simple as just reverting the lethality buffs. Everyone cries and begs for nerfs and when they do everyone complains cuz it's not enough. They are trying give riot some slack. Balancing a game as big as lol isnt easy

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Fixing lethality isnt as simple as just reverting the lethality buffs

You sure are good in reading and quoting the patch notes but tell me: why? It worked before and now it doesn't work. Just revert the change and in the meantime think about an alternative buff to lethality. Typical riot just say no and leave it with that. Like parents talking to their kids-

Golden Tager X5 votes

Well, what if I told you that the guy that made one of the worst balance decisions ever cough releasedeathknights cough is the lead balancer of league?

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Ghost Crawler was not the lead balancer or designer in WoW. He takes a lot of blame because he is willing to, he is known for rolling with the punches and being humorous. He has made some mistakes, but even as somebody who hated frost mages, I know he is taking 10x more blame than he is responsible for.

Azuregore5 votes

This thread gave me a PTSD attack from remembering World of Priestcraft....shudders

Rozzeta5 votes

Except when you remember these changes occur due to problems with their prior changes.

Let's not pretend like it hasn't been Riot's main objective since season 2 to speed up the game.

Seekêr5 votes

you have to take into consideration that sc2 is not blizzards priority and there is not nearly as much pressure on them to keep up with the demand of the very small community

WoonStruck5 votes

This.

Competitive players started condemning the game after WoL and the follow-up patches proving that the game was not starcraft anymore. The way the game was created made it a deathball -> A-move race, and that's all it really ever is now.

After HotS released, the balance team hasn't handled the game the same way. They know the game isn't a forerunner of professional gaming anymore.

Sayonara Shabi4 votes

comparing a pile of garbage to a landfill

Numb3rs4 votes

i honestly can't tell if this is a troll post. blizzard and riot do not even compare. also why the fuck are you comparing mobas and rts games, thats like comparing bicycles and cars.

just look at overwatch. overwatch is one of the most well-rounded and balanced competitive games there is at the moment

GGLineaR1 votes

{quoted} just look at overwatch. overwatch is one of the most well-rounded and balanced competitive games there is at the moment

Sombra, Torbjorn and Symmettra (even post buff) disagree with you. Just because the game doesn't have s s ton of OP characters right now, doesn't mean it's balanced. These three are nearly unplayable unless you're some kind of god, because of how weak they are.

Not to mention how every other patch, they make 76 irrelevant. First Mcree was buffed, and now Bastion.

Solitair4 votes

Thank you. I come from a game where the total of balance changes I ever saw being made (discounting new classes/content addition) was literally 3 times.

Stacona3 votes

They want to do 2 week patch cycles because the game gets stale since players will just stagnate to a view champions, so they need to constantly do champion nerfs and buffs to create a proper rotation of champions, Riot could nerf Lee Sin, Jhin, Caitlyn, and the assassins a bit and brings up the under played champions up some more - also hate Lucian, Janna, Soraka, Draven.

sobi9993 votes

{quoted}

They want to do 2 week patch cycles because the game gets stale since players will just stagnate to a view champions, so they need to constantly do champion nerfs and buffs to create a proper rotation of champions, Riot could nerf Lee Sin, Jhin, Caitlyn, and the assassins a bit and brings up the under played champions up some more - also hate Lucian, Janna, Soraka, Draven.

I hate this aspect of the game. Yes the game gets stagnate if its left the same but changing it every 2 weeks is wayyy too much. Think about lethality for example; In just 1 patch it caused havoc. The more changes they will make,in a shorter time span, the more likely they will make mistakes some which can be game breaking and downright toxic. I simply think the changes should be like once every month+ or so.

Stacona1 votes

Often patches means they can also fix changes sooner as well.

Nickssaa2 votes

Yesss... But do they? IMO, patches most often feel meaningless and they don't address major issues. This is probably the worst time to write this considering 7.4 just came out and everyone seems happy, but more often than not, Riot doesn't fix the major issues a game has.

Nickssaa3 votes

BTW, 2 week patches isn't required to keep the game interesting. Dota 2 had patch 6.88 for 6 months straight, and yet the game didn't get boring in that period (probably because the game was so balanced that no one ever found out what worked and what didn't).

Euthenaasia3 votes

This isn't even a fair discussion. Riot has one game to govern and Blizzard has several. WoW and StarCraft are definitely being balanced terribly but Heroes of the Storm is one of the best balanced moba's I've ever played that definitely takes community suggestions and makes them reality. Not saying Riot doesn't do that but the blues on HotS are extremely active and engaging with more of a team fight aspect than a one person carried the team scenario.

Valor Bot2 votes

I think a lot of players tend to take Riot for granted. Not that I always agree with their decisions, but compared to other video game companies, they are just so much more open and communicative. Trying to get a Blue to respond to you on the Blizz forums on the other hand is like trying to get in contact with the president.

Nickssaa4 votes

TBF, I do see Jeff Kaplan responding a lot in the Overwatch forums.

Risen292 votes

The main reason I stopped playing Heroes of the Storm is because I lost faith in Blizzard's commitment to the game and the ability of their devs to have a coherent vision for how the game should be balanced. The original lead dev left and it seemed like they turned over balance to some interns who completely turned the game upside down for the worse. They had no sense of where they were going and didn't seem to understand why the game's classes were designed the way they were from the beginning.

They basically removed the strategic elements from the game that deal with wave management and siege, forcing the game to become even more focused on nothing but teamfight brawling over objectives.

They rendered an entire class (the specialist) obsolete in the process, and started releasing new specialists that had nothing to do with siege.

I like playing split pushers and siege mages in LoL, so when they basically removed the specialist from the game I left and didn't look back. It was no longer interesting.

Myrmiron2 votes

While I agree that Riot communicates changes better, Blizzard vastly outperforms Riot in every other way. I mean, Blizzard has a customer support you can CHAT with or even CALL!!!! At Riot you just get a copy pasted response from a bored person that didn't even read your ticket at all. Blizzard also doesn't ban you for using a bad word, and you don't get treated like a fcking child, but like a valued customer.

AureIion Sol2 votes

you are right about all this ...but their balance team is just so ******** sometimes i feel they balance/choose to nerf card or not just cuz they play it... i mean wtf does jade idol mean ...jade druid can delete any other low midrange control/reno deck wtf is this and its 3 monthes and no changes ...riot do changes every 2 monthes while they take to much time and have a bad balanicng team

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

{quoted}

While I agree that Riot communicates changes better, Blizzard vastly outperforms Riot in every other way. I mean, Blizzard has a customer support you can CHAT with or even CALL!!!! At Riot you just get a copy pasted response from a bored person that didn't even read your ticket at all. Blizzard also doesn't ban you for using a bad word, and you don't get treated like a fcking child, but like a valued customer.

Blizzard hasnt been great since Starcraft HoTS. The glory days of blizzard was when Wings of Liberty was released and Riot was nothing but a pissant. Those days are long gone, fuck blizzard. They ruined the best esports game the world has ever seen.

IcyPepper2 votes

I dunno, Blizzard has a Overwatch team imo.

To reduce the effects of the tank meta, they nerfed the main enablers decently and even Lucio, who is likely the most popular support ever because reasons.

And they experiment with their changes too, see how they work. Like Bastion in the PTR.

It really depends on the game, I'd say. Blizzard has multiple games and multiple balance teams, Riot only has the one.

sobi9991 votes

LOL is probably the world's most famous and most played game in the world. No other game comes close it. While i appreciate what riot does, the expectations from them are much higher compared to other games. We might just be fussy but there are too many people affected by mistakes of a single balance team. Patience is always good and there will always be problems with the game as perfect balance is impossible to achieve if they keep making patches every now and then. However i just hate that some decisions made by riot clearly lack logic and are full of favoritism and bias. It just makes you salty if you're one of those people who the favoritism is having a negative impact on.

Still you deserve an up vote for being optimistic.

rtbf761092719 votes

It's a grass is always greener sort of thing. Definitely not claiming they couldn't be better, they are human and make mistakes or sometimes have a bias. All I can say is riot is so much better than blizzard, specifically the sc2 team

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