Can't we just have secondary roles as optional?

SlaktarTasken·Apr 5, 2016·2 votes·404 views

I would rather not have to play anything aside from my main at all. I don't really care if that would double my Q times, it should be optional.

21 Comments

FaieApr 5, 20166 votes

If you choose to only have a primary role, it doesn't increase the queue time just for you, it increases it for Everyone. And you have to realize that everyone will only be selecting a primary only, so queue times would just shoot up.

trash sionApr 5, 20161 votes

But if everyone is selecting only a primary, doesn't that mean that everyone is willing to have longer queue times?

FaieApr 5, 20163 votes

Ok lets say half the people want to only choose a primary. Matchmaking is an incredibly difficult and complex system, it would have unforeseen effects on queue time.

Even if people know their queue time will be longer, people will still choose only a primary and still complain about how long it takes to find a game. Never give an online community the opportunity to be dumb, because they WILL be dumb.

trash sionApr 5, 20161 votes

Anyone who is competitive and cares about their rank would prefer that everyone on their team get the role they're most comfortable with. Keep ranked to just primaries, leave secondaries in norms.

SlaktarTaskenApr 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ok lets say half the people want to only choose a primary. Matchmaking is an incredibly difficult and complex system, it would have unforeseen effects on queue time.

Even if people know their queue time will be longer, people will still choose only a primary and still complain about how long it takes to find a game. Never give an online community the opportunity to be dumb, because they WILL be dumb.

No, I don't care about Q times, I would gladly double them if I could get my primary each time.

SlaktarTaskenApr 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you choose to only have a primary role, it doesn't increase the queue time just for you, it increases it for Everyone. And you have to realize that everyone will only be selecting a primary only, so queue times would just shoot up.

Fill would still be optional for those who prioratize Qtimes over role priority?

QuephaApr 5, 20162 votes

That doesn't just affect your queue times, other people want to play that role too. It isn't really fair for you to add that burden to every other player on the planet who wants to play that lane.

trash sionApr 5, 20162 votes

If everyone wants to play the lane, and secondary was optional, then they'd probably only choose a primary... which implies they're fine with longer queue times.

QuephaApr 5, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azuk the Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JUAc8EEd,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-04-05T15:08:13.697+0000)

If everyone wants to play the lane, and secondary was optional, then they'd probably only choose a primary... which implies they're fine with longer queue times.

That creates a patience arms race where only the people with the most time to kill and the least desire to actually play League of Legends will play the role (as they will probably engage in other activities during 25+ minute queue times). Also note that it's valuable for EVERY player to dabble in every role because it lets them understand how to play with their team when they're on their main role, and this arms race makes that virtually impossible.

It's much better to encourage all players to branch out a little and at least dabble in other roles, take turns and give other people a chance, and generally reduce queue times.

3TWarriorApr 5, 20161 votes

well, you have to figure that very few positions overlap with character compatibility as well...

say you want mid first and secondary support, by meta choices, there are currently: annie, brand, illaoi, lux and morgana (to name a few), all of which are actually enjoyable to play in either role

now, bear in mind that champion select times are much lower than what they were before and there is now the added pressure of banning

let's say you have mid and then jungle? it is much harder to make a viable decision among your playable champs because the needs for the two roles are different and although you expect your primary, you could then be placed into the secondary role and have little synergy with it

also, even with the additional role to filter, there are currently only about 1/10 players who actively look for support and even fewer in ranked. when you end up with someone who does not want to play a role specified outside of their control, it can not only bring about a negative or toxic experience, it is also vastly underwhelming compared to someone actively seeking out their intended role

we could argue that such cases do not happen in aram (which they do by means of a player not knowing how their champion plays or not wishing to have to wait an extreme time-table to be useful), but bear in mind that aram is currently the least competitive mode other than URF and formerly dominion, so players are expected to fail because it is a mode of fun and a test of random skill-sets

QuephaApr 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

well, you have to figure that very few positions overlap with character compatibility as well...

say you want mid first and secondary support, by meta choices, there are currently: annie, brand, illaoi, lux and morgana (to name a few), all of which are actually enjoyable to play in either role

now, bear in mind that champion select times are much lower than what they were before and there is now the added pressure of banning

let's say you have mid and then jungle? it is much harder to make a viable decision among your playable champs because the needs for the two roles are different and although you expect your primary, you could then be placed into the secondary role and have little synergy with it

also, even with the additional role to filter, there are currently only about 1/10 players who actively look for support and even fewer in ranked. when you end up with someone who does not want to play a role specified outside of their control, it can not only bring about a negative or toxic experience, but is vastly underwhelming compared to someone actively seeking out their intended role

Why are you picking your champion before pick/ban phase starts? I don't understand.

3TWarriorApr 5, 20161 votes

because you have to be prepared and in cases like myself, it is very disorientating (even if skilled with a champ) to be forced to play a certain way instead of how you were intending or needing to play as

for instance, I like support...I do well with support...I queue in with support as primary and get mid or top or bottom lane and I am not prepared to make the flashy plays required of that role even if I possess skill with it by the virtue that even if I were to play ranked, I would still be wanting to test my skill as a support or support carry(lux, annie, brand, karma, (I don't play tahm), syndra, illaoi, etc) whereas I am more than likely against someone whose primary is in such role that I am forced to play against

if you want even the most extreme of cases, by nature of the game, you have to be able to play at least 7 champions with skill and then counting picks, up to 17

just picking a champ in a role which you only have minor skill or do not actively contribute lowers the chance of victory by a significant amount

Live2LetDieApr 5, 20161 votes

Would kill Qs especially in high elo

trash sionApr 5, 20162 votes

Does it matter? Any good player who cares about their rank would prefer everyone on their team get their main role if it meant a better chance at winning. The new draft pick encourages lower-level and less competitive play.

QuephaApr 5, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azuk the Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JUAc8EEd,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-05T15:09:36.570+0000)

Does it matter? Any good player who cares about their rank would prefer everyone on their team get their main role if it meant a better chance at winning. The new draft pick encourages lower-level and less competitive play.

Then why do high elo streamers like qtpie do things like select fill to speed up their queue times and just ask to trade for their main role when the game starts, and if they don't get the trade just accept the role they were given and play the game?

EndlessSorcererApr 5, 20161 votes

I'd assume part of that would be the fact that they are streamers and playing for their audience.

Even if they are interacting with your viewers, the stream could get pretty boring if you had to wait 30+ minutes between games.

trash sionApr 5, 20161 votes

Because they have to entertain, and 15-20 minute queues aren't entertaining. Because they're famous, they can often get their role just by asking.

Live2LetDieApr 5, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azuk the Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JUAc8EEd,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-05T15:09:36.570+0000)

Does it matter? Any good player who cares about their rank would prefer everyone on their team get their main role if it meant a better chance at winning. The new draft pick encourages lower-level and less competitive play.

Master and challenger had average 25-30 min Q times last season becuase the amount of people at that mmr is so small. Now you want to increase that even more by allowing people to wait effectively making it so one role, support, is holding everyone from playing.

I would rather play the game than wait in a Q for an hour

My Sea CowApr 5, 20161 votes

Ideally you should have good knowledge and the capability to play at least 2 roles and have the general knowledge of the rest just in case. You're not going to climb as fast as you could if you stick to just one role and that's it.

SlaktarTaskenApr 5, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Sea Cow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JUAc8EEd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-05T15:13:33.797+0000)

Ideally you should have good knowledge and the capability to play at least 2 roles and have the general knowledge of the rest just in case. You're not going to climb as fast as you could if you stick to just one role and that's it.

To me it's not a matter of what one is capable of, isn't league supposed to be fun? If I enjoy a particular role and don't find any other roles enjoyable at all, why should I be forced into any of those roles?

Please man, don't talk to me about climbing, I'm almost two full leagues above you with considerably better stats.

3TWarriorApr 5, 20161 votes

I do not want to bother searching for it, but one of the pros said the opposite, where a general knowledge of each role is encouraged and should be learned by playing, but, success is more easily obtained by first sticking to one role, then second one champion and finally third, an additional role to play as whereas players with the ability to play every role do not excel by virtue of a lack of commitment