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Do I really have to play strictly Mordekaiser from now on because of one champion?

Raid Boss Morde··4 votes·1,821 views

Lately, the champion that everyone has been seeing, Zed, has become a problem. He's in almost every game now! I can't play a lot of my mages in mid because he counters them so hard. I've tried Azir against him, Zed goes through all of Azir's burst and completely negates his ult. I tried playing Xerath against him, and as soon as Zed would ult me, I would be dead (I don't use Xerath much, so this one could be my problem). I play Malzahar, the lane is just boring, and nothing really happens. My main, Mordekaiser, however, wrecks Zed completely. I love being able to go against Zed as Morde, and it's the only champion I've found that can easily beat Zed. The only problem is that I would rather not have to go Mordekiaser every game because of this ONE champion (Or two, because of Fizz; Morde wrecks fizz). I actually get a little scared when I play someone other than Morde when I go mid during champ select. The issue with going with Morde every game is that he's easily countered. Anything ranged is an easy win against him. From experience, I've always had trouble against Brand, Ziggs, Syndra, Ahri, and Ori as him). Zed, and a few other assassins, are limiting the amount of mid laners.

45 Comments

Raid Boss Morde2 votes

LOL going against Zed as Mordekaiser now... of course

Blade of Justic2 votes

I theorize that Lissandra is actually a good counter to Zed what with her built in CC and her ult that works like Zhonya's.

Ever tried playing her?

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

I actually have played her a few times... I've owned her for quite awhile, but whenever I play her, I feel like I'm not dealing much damage. I also have so many mana problems as her T-T

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Basic risk assessment and personal skill level dictates the answer to that question.

Do you feel like you can handle laning as anyone besides Mordekaiser, whether or not your opponent is Zed or Fizz? If yes, then the answer to your thread title is "no," and vice-versa.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

I do feel comfortable, especially with Azir and Malzahar, my two other most used mid laners. I just have a lot of difficulty when it comes to facing Zed as anyone but Mordekaiser.

Tin Tarantino1 votes

Why not play Malzahar vs zed? your ult makes his pretty useless, and you can push lanes pretty easily to keep him from roaming, and if he comes into last hit under turret just drop null zone under him, you could also take exhaust vs him, it hit's him harder than it does other champions due to how his ult works.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

I have had that match up before. It was really boring... one of the mid turrets didn't go down until 20 minutes or so. We could never hit each other because we would stay so far away from EACH OTHER. All we would do is farm, because we were both afraid of each other. I was mainly afraid because their jungler wouldn't leave my lane alone, so I would try to stay close to turret. Zed would stay close to turret because I could 100-0 pretty easily if he got close. So I just farmed with E, and he farmed with his Shurikens. I didn't have anyone to use my ult on until 26 minutes. Around there....

tl;dr: I find that lane really boring, and too slow.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

OR you can outplay by dodging skillshots and rape Zed as Sona or something...

Kowe The Ewok2 votes

If Zed can't hit his skillshots at point blanc range after ulting he must be god damn bad.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Meanwhile mobility creep means that more and more champion can just dash away as soon as Zed ults.

Be Kind Rewind5 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile mobility creep means that more and more champion can just dash away as soon as Zed ults.

Zed is one of the most mobile champions in the game. Are you seriously using 'mobility creep' as an argument in his favor?

Epilogue of Life1 votes

You do realize that Zed's basically a superminion without his ult, right? If you can avoid him for 3 seconds, then he is so royally fucked...his ult is most of his juking potential, at least a third of his damage, and a big portion of his engage. If Azir dashes out with his soldier and then knock Zed back, Zed's basically over. Also, mobility creep is most evident in ADCs, and they are the real target for assassins late game. Play Zed, try diving a Vayne/Ezreal/Lucian/Trist who's not two items behind, and you'll know what I mean.

Be Kind Rewind1 votes

{quoted}

You do realize that Zed's basically a superminion without his ult, right? If you can avoid him for 3 seconds, then he is so royally fucked...his ult is most of his juking potential, at least a third of his damage, and a big portion of his engage.

Yeah...exactly. It's an excellent engage, a random untargetability juke, a flawless & instantaneous escape, and it does enough to annihilate squishies. Once you finally afford Zhonya's, he uses it on your ADC.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Your ADC can build QSS, and your support can exhaust him, and then you can also CC him when he ults your ADC...since he's not a tanky champion, it takes like 1.5~2 seconds worth of CC&focus to ruin his day.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

{quoted}

If Azir dashes out with his soldier and then knock Zed back, Zed's basically over.

That doesn't work at all. Zed has much more burst than Azir, and he can completely negate Azir's burst. Azir knocks Zed up? Zed either ults right after and kills you, or he just uses his shadow to dash away. Zed has too much safety.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Azir dashes away, Zed ults to follow, and as soon as Zed emerges from ult, Azir pushes him back. The deny is over 9000. And, of course, without his ult, Zed has absolutely 0 chance of killing Azir unless the Azir is a retard who steps too close to Zed's shadow with less than 1/2 HP.

Raid Boss Morde3 votes

Ok, let's say I dodge two of his shurikens, one from him, and one from a shadow. In about 10 seconds, he can do the same thing, and not have to worry about missing these skillshots because of his Energy. He can spam away and not have to care... but then if you're playing someone with Mana, you have to actually aim your skillshots to make them worth the cost. Zed doesn't necessarily get punished for missing skillshots.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

He does get punished. If you engage on him as soon as he misses his WEQ combo, he has no way of retaliation.

Tin Tarantino3 votes

like every other champ in the game, which is why it's a good idea to keep some of your cooldowns up and not just throw all of your spells up at once, he can just harass and farm with Q and keep W E up for escapes.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

If he only poke with Q, and you dodge the majority of it, he's not gonna be able to do anything but kill the minions, and CS alone is usually not enough for an assassin to snowball the game.

Tin Tarantino2 votes

that's a lot of Q dodging to do, it deals decent damage and has a pretty short cool down, the point is saying wait for x champion to blow all their cool downs and punish them is pretty eassily countered by them not doing that.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Then why is Syndra not considered OP? You have to constantly dodge her balls, and she has a stun+knockback if she gets ganked, and her ult is also tons of damage. She can poke you, CS to regen mana, and go back to poking you.

Tin Tarantino2 votes

She was for a while, people complain about Karthus all the time for similar reasons, the fact remains, if you throw all of your abilities out in lane without hitting anything and you stay in range for counter harass you messed up, and waiting for the enemy to mess up every harass combo like that is on par with waiting for the enemy in FPS games to miss every shot and then just stand there waiting for you to shoot back. If it was no issue to just dodge every single skill shot AP Nidalee would never have been reworked, and if you had the mechanics to do this yourself you would be higher than silver 4.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Then if they back off, its your chance to CS....meanwhile, AP nidalee's spear range, dmg, and width were ridiculous compared to Zed's Q, to the point where she can literally do nothing but Q and still deal a very significant amount of damage. Even so, I wasn't one of the millions who cried about something that had counterplay. If there is counterplay, but I'm not skilled enough to pull it off, it's MY FAULT. Nobody seems to really get it for some reason...

Yulen Xoshxius2 votes

If it helps: You can hide behind creeps to avoid Nidalee's spears. It won't work against Zed's shurikens though.

Tin Tarantino4 votes

Don't play mid Sona vs Zed, She is far too squishy.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

It doesn't matter if you juke all of his pokes and refrain from overextending.

Be Kind Rewind2 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't matter if you juke all of his pokes and refrain from overextending.

That's silly. You could say that about 99% of midlaners. "Just juke their poke." Nevermind that Zed's comes from, you know, two places at once when he's poking. And then when he's all-in'ing you, it comes from melee range. And nevermind that he can do the same poke. Over. And over. And over. Forever. While you quickly go OoM and get shoved under tower, where he's perfectly happy & safe diving you, and where he still doesn't have to fear jungler ganks because of his shadow.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

If he has the shadow, he can't hit you with pokes that come from two places at once. If he dodges your spells and hits you with his, OF COURSE you'll run oom and he'll be able to dive you...Zed has potentials, but no guarantee that the potentials will help him. You can mess up on Zed in so many ways.

Tin Tarantino1 votes

It does actually, you start the game with less health than a melee minion, if you mess up once you are in range or being killed by his combo, you have 330 base move speed on Sona, which is being nerfed so zeds shurikens will not be easily dodged, you don't have the mana pool to just spam heal the entire laning phase. Sona is not a counter to assassins.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

I named Sona as someone who can't beat assassins, to emphasize the fact that if you juke Zed's pokes he is nothing. If you can't get that, you'll prolly fail your SAT critical reading.

Tin Tarantino6 votes

Obviously if you dodge all of someones skills they will deal no damage, the point is that dodge skill shots is not counter information, the insults are unnecessary, I've managed to show civility to someone who's suggesting taking the squishiest champion in the game vs the top picked assassin, I would think you could return the courtesy.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

I honestly have no courtesy for someone who thinks that a champion who needs to land skillshots is OP. If it can be outplayed, then its not broken. If i took one too many shuriken to the face and then stayed at low health for him to dive, it's my fault and nobody else's.

Tin Tarantino3 votes

If you check the previous comments you might notice that I didn't say he was OP, I said taking a champion with low health and resistances vs the current top assassin is stupid. You should also work on developing some courtesy, since the lack of forethought that seems to be going into your comments does not put you in a position to be talking down to anyone. Also a need to land skill shots does not mean that a champion can never be OP, you lack understanding, I'm done with this.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Try Lissandra and enjoy Zed's delicious tears.

Main Was Nerfed1 votes

Vladimir.

You're welcome.

jv21blU7oD1 votes

I think Diana should be an overall solid pick vs Zed. If it's ranked just ban him and don't bother with him.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

Don't own Diana :( I will get her soon though! Also, people never listen to me when I ask them to ban champs..

Tin Tarantino1 votes

Galio should do pretty well, your ult counters his ult and despite the popular belief Galio can get quite tanky Vs AD champions as well. You could also play Ryze, he can built frozen heart for tank and damage. I usually just play Ahri vs him though.

I'm also surprised people don't try Riven or Irelia vs him.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

I actually don't own Galio, and I own almost all of the mid laners right now. Also, whenever he's free, I do pretty badly as him. I might try again later against a Zed if he becomes free though. Thanks :D

Vesarixx1 votes

I've heard Riven mid does pretty well vs Zed

Pryotra1 votes

  1. Play long range champs with good wave clear OR large meaty mids

  2. ????????????

  3. Profit

Per Favore

Play draft or ranked and get him banned out. He is invalidating a lot (but not all) mid picks, and if you don't want to have a specific pick just to beat a zed I would suggest the ban method.

Stars Shaper

Since now I've had no huge problems using Xerath, Morde, Vel'Koz... anything but Yasuo (which is now the weakest version of any assassin) worked fine against him. Don't let him farm/poke at his will. Be you the one that decides the flow of the fight and you'll have him force to play defensively.

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