Can we finally acknowledge that supports are underpowered?

Poske·Jun 13, 2016·7 votes·1,860 views

Yes they are all around 50% winrate but that is because each game has 2 supports on top of that there are few games where supports win by default because there are people which would rather go double mid then support

Now hear me out

If lets say you have 4 Plat player and 1 newbie who just hit level 30 whats the role he is going to hold back your team the least? Yeah its the support

If you give the new player Mid and he picks IDK Orianna or whatever even if your godamn support is madlife you ll have lower chance to win then to put the new player on support

Supports have the weakest influence on the game. Weakest gold gain and weakest exp gain

The chance for carrying the game as a support is the lowest

INB4 someone say But I hooked this guy .... adadhadasa YEAH great Guess what ADC/MIDLANER/JUNGLER/TOPLANER did 5 times more.. they had bigger influence

Basicly What I am trying to say is. Support role needs a buff globally

Maybe Deny minion every once in a while masterie Exp per level masterie (If you are around allies with higher level we used to ahve that)

Buff their gold inc items masteries buff them directly

Just godamn buff them.. Thats it

44 Comments

EedatJun 13, 20163 votes

Sorry, but by nature of the class it is always going to be the least impactful. Talking about averages of course, we've all seen supports who have carried games. The problem is is that there is absolutely no way to give them free gold or XP that won't be exploited by other lanes. Sorry, but a champ that gets no CS, has to share a lane of XP, and is required to sacrifice damage items for utility items just is going to be a 'carry"

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, but by nature of the class it is always going to be the least impactful. We can change that. Supports can have and deserve overpowerd masteries (You can just make those masteries be most influencal if you have least gold/exp on the team) I can give you 10 examples atleast

Talking about averages of course, we've all seen supports who have carried games.

Support can never carry alone. I have seen some great supports but they were supporting great players. Pretty sure no chall support main would play support as a smurf until plat atleast

The problem is is that there is absolutely no way to give them free gold or XP that won't be exploited by other lanes. Sorry, but a champ that gets no CS, has to share a lane of XP, and is required to sacrifice damage items for utility items just is going to be a 'carry"

Do you understand what carry means

Carry doesnt mean just doing damage for gods sake. I dont expect supports to do 80 k dmg per game I expect them to have influence in other way and I dont think that influence supports bring to the table is at good power level.. seems weak

EedatJun 14, 20161 votes

Carry doesnt mean just doing damage for gods sake.

You're right. Tanks and carry. CC bots can carry. You're the one who assumed I meant damage.

influence supports bring to the table is at good power level.. seems weak

Of course it's weak. Supports are always under leveled and have little gold. There is really no way around this. For example, a support Lulu isnt going to be as impactful as a mid Lulu. Thats why popular supports bring utility with their kits. You dont see any support Talons do you?

RevaliJun 14, 20161 votes

Support can never carry alone.

AP Bard Zyra Zilean Blitzcrank Velkoz

Would like to have a word with you

Dominick DestineJun 14, 20163 votes

Supports are the second strongest they've ever been.

There was a brief period where supports were so broken they could lane anywhere, I'm talking about top Taric Thresh mid Soraka Lulu ... that was unhealthy for the game.

But currently supports are working perfectly. No buffs needed , you just need to suck less.

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JPpOixRV,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-06-14T00:57:02.562+0000)

Supports are the second strongest they've ever been.

This is just flat out wrong. 80% of changes riot has done since season 1 has been nerfs no role got stronger in terms of power budget

There was a brief period where supports were so broken they could lane anywhere, I'm talking about top mid ... that was unhealthy for the game.

Yeah I remember crushing those tarics and threshes. They were specificly getting destroyed by junglers. I dont think they were ever more then tier2 picks.

Soraka mid had some good matchups but thats about it

Lulu mid was broken I admit that but whats the point here. What does that have to do with anything. Are you afraid if we buff utility on supports they ll become viable in other lanes? Its quite simple just nerf the ap ratios on their aoe damaging abilities so they cant become waveclear gods

But currently supports are working perfectly. No buffs needed , you just need to suck less.

I can easly carry people in any role except support. If i am the most skilled player on a team

Being the least popular role really says that supports are working perfectly. Supports are in need of changes / buffs ever since they became a role yes each season Riot tried to make supports more relevant but They are still not as relevant as how they should be compared to other roles

Dominick DestineJun 14, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JPpOixRV,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-06-14T01:49:22.686+0000)

This is just flat out wrong. 80% of changes riot has done since season 1 has been nerfs no role got stronger in terms of power budget

Is this a troll ? I am going to respond as if it's not but it looks as if it is.

There is a concept called "Power creep" which functions in such a way that, as time goes by the game-world characters become stronger , necessitating updates and buffs for obsolete characters. 80% of changes have NOT been "nerfs" and in fact, most have been buffs.

The level of power we're operating with today is significantly greater than in season 1, barring broken as fuck champions like S1 Jax , release Xin Zhao, etc.

Yeah I remember crushing those tarics

When Taric top was viable, he was pretty much unbeatable, I'm talking about the brief period where he did damage on each auto-attack based on his mana, giving him the ability to go toe-to-toe with fighters while being tanky and having one of the strongest self-heals in the game. It was boring but very broken.

His downside was low damage scaling late game but it didn't matter given the strong utility and insane tankiness he could achieve.... this led to a nerf to his aura armor, his passive and his heal. He was too strong (Obviously).

Soraka mid had some good matchups but thats about it

I was talking about pre-rework Soraka with Starcall, there was a brief period where she could just outpush anyone and heal during the intermittent period, it was stupid and boring, but overly effective... and because she was a support, her AP ratios were way too good , so she got way more from gold than she should.... hence her base values and AP ratios were gutted.

Lulu mid was broken I admit that but whats the point here.

I was trying to demonstrate that supports have been brokenly overpowered before, right now they are neither weak nor strong, but perfectly balanced.... even Alistar , one of the most traditionally overpowered supports (Look at LCS) has been pretty well balanced lately.

I can easly carry people in any role except support. If i am the most skilled player on a team

That's true, support is most reliant on teammates.... what's your point?

That's what support is supposed to be. SUPPORT.

Being the least popular role really says that supports are working perfectly. Supports are in need of changes / buffs

No they don't.

Ironically, it FEELS as if people are way less appreciative of support now that the NEW CHAMP SELECT (Not related to Dynamic Queue) has been added. I remember back before NEW CHAMP SELECT, if I said "Fuck it , no one wants to so I will play support" and everyone was like "Yay, thanks".

Well, maybe a bit exaggerated but people were indeed a lot more grateful if you volunteered than now that it is automated. Support is not underpowered.

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JPpOixRV,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2016-06-14T02:35:13.701+0000)

Is this a troll ? I am going to respond as if it's not but it looks as if it is.

There is a concept called "Power creep" which functions in such a way that, as time goes by the game-world characters become stronger , necessitating updates and buffs for obsolete characters. 80% of changes have NOT been "nerfs" and in fact, most have been buffs.

Really infact? Look dude show me 1 patch where most of changes are buff. YOU CANT EVEN FKING SHOW ME 1 PATCH. Its a known thing that Riot prefers to nerf over buffing and from what I have seen and I saw every single patch note from Season1 80% OF changes ARE NERFS PERIOD GO READ SOME GODAMN PATCH NOTES... I Dare you show me even 1 fking patch where there are more buffs

The level of power we're operating with today is significantly greater than in season 1, barring broken as fuck champions like S1 Jax , release Xin Zhao, etc.

Just no. Jax could 1vs3 any day with broken leg. Been there done that. I remember playing malphite to counter all the op stuff (trynda jax xin) Do you have any idea how much stronger malphite used to be? He was so strong that you could even play HIM AD /AP/ TANK and it would work

When Taric top was viable, he was pretty much unbeatable, I'm talking about the brief period where he did damage on each auto-attack based on his mana, giving him the ability to go toe-to-toe with fighters while being tanky and having one of the strongest self-heals in the game. It was boring but very broken.

Idk I dont remember that ever being a problem

His downside was low damage scaling late game but it didn't matter given the strong utility and insane tankiness he could achieve.... this led to a nerf to his aura armor, his passive and his heal. He was too strong (Obviously).

I was talking about pre-rework Soraka with Starcall, there was a brief period where she could just outpush anyone and heal during the intermittent period, it was stupid and boring, but overly effective... and because she was a support, her AP ratios were way too good , so she got way more from gold than she should.... hence her base values and AP ratios were gutted.

I am mid main ap soraka was over exagureatead. She was nerfed because she had no counterplay as ap

I was trying to demonstrate that supports have been brokenly overpowered before, right now they are neither weak nor strong, but perfectly balanced.... even Alistar , one of the most traditionally overpowered supports (Look at LCS) has been pretty well balanced lately.

Alistar is overpowered when you compare him to supports. But if you compare alistar with any other role champions he is weak

That's true, support is most reliant on teammates.... what's your point?

That's what support is supposed to be. SUPPORT.

No they don't.

Ironically, it FEELS as if people are way less appreciative of support now that the NEW CHAMP SELECT (Not related to Dynamic Queue) has been added. I remember back before NEW CHAMP SELECT, if I said "Fuck it , no one wants to so I will play support" and everyone was like "Yay, thanks".

Well, maybe a bit exaggerated but people were indeed a lot more grateful if you volunteered than now that it is automated. Support is not underpowered.

even Riot aknowledges they are underpowered hence why they are planning to buff them

TheEvilQueen135Jun 13, 20162 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/state-season-mid-season-followup under patch 6.13 " A focused patch on the support position, looking at things like support XP, tweaks to a few items that aren’t hitting the mark (e.g. Ruby Sightstone or Forbidden Idol), small buffs to some champs that often go support, etc. "

Riot is aware that supports are struggling and plan on making small adjustments.

PoskeJun 14, 20162 votes

{quoted}

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/state-season-mid-season-followup under patch 6.13 " A focused patch on the support position, looking at things like support XP, tweaks to a few items that aren’t hitting the mark (e.g. Ruby Sightstone or Forbidden Idol), small buffs to some champs that often go support, etc. "

Riot is aware that supports are struggling and plan on making small adjustments.

Thats good news thx for sharing didnt see that I just hope they ll give supports more utility

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 13, 20161 votes

If they are so weak then why do people keep picking them? And why do assassin metas arise whenever supports actually are weak? We aren't in one of those right now, now we are worried about tanks. The evidence doesn't seem to be in your favor

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If they are so weak then why do people keep picking them? Well I GUESS you can always go double top and troll o.o?

And why do assassin metas arise whenever supports actually are weak? We aren't in one of those right now, now we are worried about tanks. The evidence doesn't seem to be in your favor

Plz dont talk about meta you are way to elo to know anything about meta. Its not tank meta atm IDK whats going on in bronze silver games wherever you play but I am quite sure Katarina kha zix yasuo meta is there

Supports are the least played role because its a well known thing that carrying with it is the least likely since your influence on the game is lowest

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JPpOixRV,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-06-14T00:42:23.881+0000)

Well I GUESS you can always go double top and troll o.o?

Plz dont talk about meta you are way to elo to know anything about meta. Its not tank meta atm IDK whats going on in bronze silver games wherever you play but I am quite sure Katarina kha zix yasuo meta is there

Supports are the least played role because its a well known thing that carrying with it is the least likely since your influence on the game is lowest

you should unedit my post maybe?

also LCK says bullshit LCS says bullshit Lolking says bullshit

youre talking on too large a scale to hide behind whatever irrelevant rank you are. I don't care if youre challenger.

You act like its unavoidable one moment then say its the "least played" ??? what do you mean by this

Least liked? Your argument is that its weak not that it isn't liked

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

you should unedit my post maybe?

also LCK says bullshit LCS says bullshit Lolking says bullshit

So whats your point exactly? tthe fact that they are all around 50% winrate says nothing because each side has support Compared to other roles support is underpowerd if support is banned at LCK that is because he outclasses other supports. ANY OTHER ROLE OUTCLASSES SUPPORT...banning the strongest pick in pathetic role is still worth it depending on transperency

If this was your point it is just pointles

youre talking on too large a scale to hide behind whatever irrelevant rank you are. I don't care if youre challenger.

You act like its unavoidable one moment then say its the "least played" ??? what do you mean by this

Least liked? Your argument is that its weak not that it isn't liked

Go draft choose fill have fun supporting 10/10 games People dont support because they are least likely to carry with it since their influence on the game is the lowest

In case you wonder midlane is the most popular role and the support is the least popular AKA why you have to wait 5 minutes to enter a champ select unless you support

Yes supports are weak and thats why they are least liked IF WE make supports viable carying options (NOT TALKING ABOUT DMG OUTPUT THEY CARRY ON A DIFFRENT WAY JUST NOT HARD ENOUGH) there ll be more support mains

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JPpOixRV,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-14T01:24:48.031+0000)

So whats your point exactly? tthe fact that they are all around 50% winrate says nothing because each side has support Compared to other roles support is underpowerd if support is banned at LCK that is because he outclasses other supports. ANY OTHER ROLE OUTCLASSES SUPPORT...banning the strongest pick in pathetic role is still worth it depending on transperency

If this was your point it is just pointles

It wasn't, my point was that we are not in the middle of an assassin meta and the champs you mentioned aren't even that strong. If katarina is getting picked a lot for example, I imagine it has more to do with swains rise than anything else. She shits on swain.

Go draft choose fill have fun supporting 10/10 games People dont support because they are least likely to carry with it since their influence on the game is the lowest

I like playing support. I just refuse to support people I've not played with before when there's a low chance of getting someone who isn't a complete pussy, noob, or an asshole. THAT is why support is unpopular. In a game where teamwork is an actual thing supporting roles are a lot more fun to play.

In case you wonder midlane is the most popular role and the support is the least popular AKA why you have to wait 5 minutes to enter a champ select unless you support

Yes supports are weak and thats why they are least liked IF WE make supports viable carying options (NOT TALKING ABOUT DMG OUTPUT THEY CARRY ON A DIFFRENT WAY JUST NOT HARD ENOUGH) there ll be more support mains

We don't need carrying supports or support mains part of the support strategy is to not focus on carrying to change targeting priorities. Part of the support role is stopping the enemy carry from carrying if it is anyone who can be affected by support which it very often is.

When supports have been strong in the past all that meant is that adcs would seem weak and botlane would be less fun. In professional play the only time this has really ever been any different is not because supports were buffed but because they were allowed to level faster because the adc left to help kindred jungle acquire objectives. When supports get too strong they leave bot lane or dominate bot lane and start doing terrible things to this game. Support champs, if buffed to carry, are not and have never been healthy for this game.

Careful what you wish for.

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't, my point was that we are not in the middle of an assassin meta and the champs you mentioned aren't even that strong. If katarina is getting picked a lot for example, I imagine it has more to do with swains rise than anything else. She shits on swain.

Katarina is overpowerd until you reach diamond. What do you guys bann, same stuff as you see in lcs lol? She actually does really well against swain vlad which are quite popular as you mentioned

I like playing support. I just refuse to support people I've not played with before when there's a low chance of getting someone who isn't a complete pussy, noob, or an asshole. THAT is why support is unpopular. In a game where teamwork is an actual thing supporting roles are a lot more fun to play.

Dont you think you should be able to carry games by supporting noobs. Last time I supported noob I just started farming because I already know that utility wont help me win a game in a team who is uncapable of doing damage. I ended up carrying by having highest damage. I was supporting with syndra though so I could do that. I was just killing minions I though my carry wouldnt (with w) and he wasnt able to killl 70% of minions.** Basicly I wasnt supporting that game thats why we won ....**

We don't need carrying supports or support mains part of the support strategy is to not focus on carrying to change targeting priorities. Part of the support role is stopping the enemy carry from carrying if it is anyone who can be affected by support which it very often is.

I dont understand this part. What are you trying to say? preventing the enemy from carrying is included in carrying so I repeat supports cant carry / have low influence on the game

When supports have been strong in the past all that meant is that adcs would seem weak and botlane would be less fun. In professional play the only time this has really ever been any different is not because supports were buffed but because they were allowed to level faster because the adc left to help kindred jungle acquire objectives. When supports get too strong they leave bot lane or dominate bot lane and start doing terrible things to this game. Support champs, if buffed to carry, are not and have never been healthy for this game.

Careful what you wish for.

In the past 6 years of playing lol Not once I felt that supports were as relevant as MIDLANER/TOP/JUNGLER/ADC... its kinda sad

Yes if certain supports get insane utility buffs without some small ap ratio nerfs on their waveclear aoe abilities.. they could become opressive midlaners but as I said we can easly handle that with some ap ratio nerfs

Examples For example if we add new utilites trick to nami. if she ever becomes problem in mid / top nerf her Q ap ratio If we add new tricks utility to blitz we would reduce his damage by alot so that he cant become a toplaner (Eventhough he was not designed to be support in the first place but he became that)

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JPpOixRV,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-14T02:01:09.403+0000)

Katarina is overpowerd until you reach diamond. What do you guys bann, same stuff as you see in lcs lol? She actually does really well against swain vlad which are quite popular as you mentioned

I don't ban based off opness or LCS picks. I ban based off what is broken beyond excuse like lee sin kicking permanently off the map and I ban based off what is being banned out. If the other team is banning the pull mechanic I'm going to also target pullers and pick champs that might benefit from no pulls.

if kat isn't overpowered in diamond then she simply isn't overpowered, period.

Dont you think you should be able to carry games by supporting noobs. Last time I supported noob I just started farming because I already know that utility wont help me win a game in a team who is uncapable of doing damage. I ended up carrying by having highest damage. I was supporting with syndra though so I could do that. I was just killing minions I though my carry wouldnt (with w) and he wasnt able to killl 70% of minions.** Basicly I wasnt supporting that game thats why we won ....**

I supported a team of noobs once I didn't steal any cs I didn't get many kills I dealt the lowest damage and got the least kills

https://t0.rbxcdn.com/56b2af6a751bc36ec696b8a8ecf4b78f

and I still fucking carried, as support tank sona. I got my zzrot and Banner and wards and just started supporting away.

I also helped direct my team somewhat, I had one person actually listening to me. One more than necessary but it made things easier. I gave vision and gave chances to grab towers. We had lost 2 inhibs at one point but our team was still getting towers and counterbaroning. They thought we couldn't see or weren't ready cuz they killed by farsight ward but I double warded that shit.

It was great and I was fucking fabulous without having to be a carry

I dont understand this part. What are you trying to say? preventing the enemy from carrying is included in carrying so I repeat supports cant carry / have low influence on the game

supports can prevent carrying that carries tend to not be able to. Without the support you probably wont carry in certain metas. According to the trends that is.

In the past 6 years of playing lol Not once I felt that supports were as relevant as MIDLANER/TOP/JUNGLER/ADC... its kinda sad

a lot of blind people have played since alpha.

Yes if certain supports get insane utility buffs without some small ap ratio nerfs on their waveclear aoe abilities.. they could become opressive midlaners but as I said we can easly handle that with some ap ratio nerfs

no, you can't. That just makes them oppressive midlaners who say no to fun.

Examples For example if we add new utilites trick to nami. if she ever becomes problem in mid / top nerf her Q ap ratio If we add new tricks utility to blitz we would reduce his damage by alot so that he cant become a toplaner (Eventhough he was not designed to be support in the first place but he became that)

then they do the same thing ekko does or soraka used to do. No real damage, they just find a way to skip the earlygame and stall a lane out then proceed to get silly lategame which will come because of the oppressive and absolutely suffocating playstyle.

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't ban based off opness or LCS picks. I ban based off what is broken beyond excuse like lee sin kicking permanently off the map and I ban based off what is being banned out. If the other team is banning the pull mechanic I'm going to also target pullers and pick champs that might benefit from no pulls.

If you are low elo start banning katarina..

if kat isn't overpowered in diamond then she simply isn't overpowered, period.

Well in my elo she is considered weak. I am just surprised she isnt permaban in low divisions though. I can understand you guys banning blitz though but not lee sin. Lee sin is pathetic atm specially in low elo where none has idea how to play the blind monk

I supported a team of noobs once I didn't steal any cs I didn't get many kills I dealt the lowest damage and got the least kills

https://t0.rbxcdn.com/56b2af6a751bc36ec696b8a8ecf4b78f

and I still fucking carried, as support tank sona. I got my zzrot and Banner and wards and just started supporting away.

Yeah link would be great..

So basicly 90% of you guys are afraid that if we directly buff supports they ll become opressive toplane/midlane

There are few things you should know if support cannot waveclear If support has bad ap ratios on damaging abilities

they wont function in those lanes

if we add more utility / tricks whatever to them they wont sudendly become midlaners.

AptestJun 14, 20161 votes

A support character is stronger than a damage dealer, given that both characters are poor and under-leveled.

if you reverse this situation, and both characters have gold, the damage dealer gains the ability to kill the support, whereas the support does not gain the ability to kill the damage dealer.

thus the power balance is reversed.

support characters are viable so long as gold for the pauper position (=support role) is limited. if gold for pauper position is not limited, other champion classes S.A. ranged damage mages, bruisers, true tanks etc become the "viable option" in the pauper position.

Sightless66Jun 13, 20161 votes

Exp per level masterie (If you are around allies with higher level we used to ahve that)

Oh goody, another proposal to bring back the noob trap mastery. Yeah, that's certainly appealing.

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Oh goody, another proposal to bring back the noob trap mastery. Yeah, that's certainly appealing.

Buff it to the point where it is not a noob trap.. YAY its not like I suggested 1 exp every second while you are around allies with higher level

SeenanJun 13, 20161 votes

Braum pretty much solo carries games in LCS games, lol.

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Braum pretty much solo carries games in LCS games, lol.

Compared to other supports braum is overpowerd

Compared to other non supports braum is trashtier

Understood?

They can either buff supports globally through itemization masteries etc which is an easy thing to do

or buff them directly giving them new tricks and whatnot which is not an easy thing to do But I am sure majority would prefer it

DarfallerJun 14, 20161 votes

You ahve not seen attack speed braum support, i was playing zed and he oneshot me

xl Kirito lxJun 13, 20161 votes

You give the new player support, because every other role has a learning curve associated with it. Jungler has to know how to apply pressure, counter enemy movements, gank, ect. Mid lane is basically a secondary jungler that gets lane experience. Top's an island, but knowing how to trade. ADC requires the ability to stutterstep well.

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=xl Kirito lx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JPpOixRV,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-06-13T23:56:58.429+0000)

You give the new player support, because every other role has a learning curve associated with it. Jungler has to know how to apply pressure, counter enemy movements, gank, ect. Mid lane is basically a secondary jungler that gets lane experience. Top's an island, but knowing how to trade. ADC requires the ability to stutterstep well.

aka Supports have the lowest influence in GAMES so thats what we tell to new players to play

cant you see that what you wrote is that

AptestJun 14, 20161 votes

Supports do not have a power level issue.

they have a role designation issue.

when the role gets work done on it, people like this one start speaking,

and woilla we get a patch focused around healing and shielding and "protecting the ADC".

where in fact most support players think the role should be about

apply pressure, counter enemy movements, gank, ect

it's like all the un-fun stuff gets externalized into the support role by mid lane players and jungle role players who do not want to do them.

the problem is not power - it is agency. It is the capacity to move around and to make decision for the team.

The cause of this is the vulnerability of most ADCs and the prevalence of high mobility, high dueling power assassins in the game, and also the unwillingness of jungler players to pick defensive characters.

Knight SkyJun 14, 20161 votes

Well everyone else in the comments justified why supps are the way the are. So i would just like to add that if you think supps are weak your playin the wrong supps! Sure janna, soraka, etc dont do alot of damage. However i main lux support and my damage to champs after game is ALWAYS 2nd highest or 1st on my team. Even supporting and not KS'ing i deal plenty of damage. Lux isnt the only one either. Zyra deals a truck load of damage as support, so does morg and karma. So actually supports can do alot of damage while also applying alot off cc in teamfights

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well everyone else in the comments justified why supps are the way the are. So i would just like to add that if you think supps are weak your playin the wrong supps! Sure janna, soraka, etc dont do alot of damage. However i main lux support and my damage to champs after game is ALWAYS 2nd highest or 1st on my team. Even supporting and not KS'ing i deal plenty of damage. Lux isnt the only one either. Zyra deals a truck load of damage as support, so does morg and karma. So actually supports can do alot of damage while also applying alot off cc in teamfights

Its really unlikely I play anything wrong given that I am diamond2 and have wide champion pool and experience on everything I am not playing the wrong supports

My rant was never about supports not doing damage I am just 100% certain that their power budget is around 30% lower then for other champions

Lux is horrible support champ If you wuld pick that at my elo People would flame you... I would probably to There is no such thing as KS .. I am getting mad at you for just mentioning that

** Supports influence on the game remains minimal compared to other roles which is the main issue **

Knight SkyJun 14, 20161 votes

Clearly your arrogance is the problem, and also you level of competence is low considering you think lux is a bad support lol no wonder your post is down voted -4 , because no one agrees with you. Comment back and say im dumb all you want, the negative votes prove my statement lol

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Clearly your arrogance is the problem, and also you level of competence is low considering you think lux is a bad support lol no wonder your post is down voted -4 , because no one agrees with you. Comment back and say im dumb all you want, the negative votes prove my statement lol

New to forums xd?

Its just the way sheep work oh look its at -4 better downvote it and also I should use my smurfs to downvote it to

Specific suggestions tend to get downvoted and I did give some specific suggestions

League community has hard time accepting changes and they will say no to change even if its good in 90% cases

If you make a thread and say nerf zed you ll get 40 upvotes If you make a thread where you mention 3 good diffrent ways how to properly nerf zed without pissing of zed mains you ll get downvoted

GET it?

TheEvilQueen135Jun 14, 20161 votes

no problem :) i don't know how much they're gonna do but it's something at least

Yosuke ApperuJun 14, 20161 votes

My biggest problem with the support role is 1. not having that experience mastery in the utility tree anymore and 2. If your adc isn't the dominant one, it feels like you fall even further behind them. I feel like I have so little impact if bot loses lane, and maybe even a tad too much if my adc wins lane.

Athenes LuluJun 14, 20161 votes

The strongest solo laners are actually support champions.

Tell me more on how they are UP.

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JPpOixRV,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-06-14T01:26:55.808+0000)

The strongest solo laners are actually support champions.

Tell me more on how they are UP.

Thread is about botlane supports

Yes mid/top lulu is legit pick

I just want supports to have more utility/tricks then they curently have. If we grant this to a support who has insane ap ratios specially on waveclear abilities well... we would nerf that dmg ap ratios or whatever

BloodyTomponJun 14, 20161 votes

Least influential does not make them under powered. Least liked does not make them underpowered. Supports are not supposed to carry, that's the entire premise behind the class--to support the carry and team, not to carry themselves. If they were that shit there wouldn't be 2 supports in every game.

PoskeJun 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Least influential does not make them under powered. Least liked does not make them underpowered. Supports are not supposed to carry, that's the entire premise behind the class--to support the carry and team, not to carry themselves. If they were that shit there wouldn't be 2 supports in every game.

they are least liked because their influence on the game is pathetic which kinda means that they are underpowered K change summoner rift to 4vs4 you ll never see supports again. ITS LITERALY THAT.. we might see utility mage lulu but thats about it

They are trash tier role pick i fill pitty for support mains

AptestJun 14, 20161 votes

no.

some moron called the class "support" some long time ago and the name "stuck" because "tradition" and because people who play ADC / mid / jungle / top echoed the idea of a "helper class" a lot.

the premise behind the 5th class is** only t**hat it does not farm. there is no other true purpose to a "support" and everything else is open to the player's interpretation. everything else is a non-essential addition that can be revoked if the mechanics of the game allow.

BloodyTomponJun 15, 20161 votes

True that is the origin of supports. It will always be more efficient to channel gold into a single play or two.

However, lacking gold, they need to bring something other than damage to the team. i.e. they need to be able to support or contribute through non-damage; CC, shields, speedups and what have you. Lacking gold, they are not supposed to carry because they don't have the damage. They have evolved to support the carry's and team.

AptestJun 15, 20161 votes

Lacking gold, they are not supposed to carry because they don't have the damage. They have evolved to support the carry's and team.

carrying is done through mobility, cc and in-your-face pressure, carries having little of either.

I.E. the premise that "carries carry" and henceforth "supports help" is utter nonsense.

BloodyTomponJun 15, 20161 votes

No, it's mostly damage -- both given and received. Mobility allows for better target selection and safety, cc allows for damage to be given without reciprocation. They both help carry, but it is damage that kills the enemy and damage that takes down towers. That's why supports bring cc, shields or speedups. That enables the team to deal more damage or escape damage.

AtronthorJun 14, 20161 votes

Supporters are actually very strong.

BluePolarizerJun 14, 20161 votes

Orly?

You put a level 30 support in a plat level game?

Have you seen enemy Vayne pentakill? Or how do you like to see the enemy team get a 2nd mid when Brand/Annie/Morg get fed?

DrDiagaJun 15, 20161 votes

I'm sorry OP but you have no idea what you are talking about.

Supports are about their utility. I don't care if I'm a Leona or blitz or thresh and I'm two levels behind. I've got the kit to make the play that can swing every fight.

If you are looking for raw stats or damage output then you just don't play good supports. Sure a karma sup or some other poke sup can be fun and strong, but you are REQUIRED to get ahead via that advantage. If late comes and uou r lane didn't get ahead well that's risk vs reward.

If I'm you are talking about traditional supports well then you are just plain wrong.

Supports should have sightstone also which is a massive continuous playmaker.