I really like those smaller pseudo-rework changes Riot is giving champions in a wonky spot.
It's certainly a way better approach to balance rather than just add or detract power.
Hats off to you Riot, this is exactly what I like to see.
Anxious to see who's next, this is way more interesting than the Assassin reworks in my opinion^^
A Superb Villain38 votesHonestly, I'm not thrilled about her passive. Passives that rely on a map, rather than the champion, are uninteresting.
Karn Bishop1 votesI have mixed feeling about this honestly, on one hand you are right on the other hand it is kinda shyvannas job to secure dragons as a jungler so it kind of is part of her kit in that way.
A Superb Villain4 votesBy that same argument, it could be said securing dragon is part of every jungler's kit. In addition, it means Shyvana has no passive until her, or her team, kill a dragon.
Narasimha7 votesTrue, but to be fair, her old passive is super ultra mega boring. It's literally "Here are free stats".
Masterkerfuffle11 votesWait, what happens to Shyvana on ARAM and Twisted Treeline? She just doesn't get a passive?
Karn Bishop1 votesI am betting on those maps she will just gain random dragons after every so often or at every tower kill/ major objective monster?
Kingnewgameplus3 votesI seriously doubt that. Ivern doesn't have a passive on ARAM, skarner doesn't have a passive on ARAM, so they probably won't give her one. Even though besides ivern she is probably the worst champ in ARAM.
MavenSong33 votesSkarner does have a passive on aram. 5 of em.
Trias0002 votesAlso, Azir has no passive on Dominion.
14 Werewolves14 votesNo one has a passive on Dominion.
Rest in peace.
A Superb Villain2 votesIf they decide to go through with this passive, Riot made a statement that they intend to compensate her somehow.
WolfBV2 votesIf they go through with the new passive idea, a separate passive will be made for different maps.
Velzard of Koz2 votesWhy so sure? Ivern doesn't have separate passive.
EDIT: Now I see Superb's post that Riot said they intend to. Well, that's a bummer there are champions who won't get such treatment, too, then.
Keti4 votesAs a Kindred/Shyvana player.. I agree.
With kindred I hate how my early game strategy often hangs on if RNG decides to send my first mark to enemy raptors at 2:30 or not.
RiotRiot Axes28 votesWe're feeling pretty good about them so far, too. We'll be communicating more about this approach in the near future.
Garen isn't going to ship in 6.23 - more work to be done before that changelist is ready, and not enough time to get it into the 6.23 patch. It'll be off the PBE soon, likely to come back in some form during the 6.24 cycle.
WoonStruck1 votesAnd Skarner?
Hunted90001 votesskarner is good
WoonStruck6 votesskarner is good
No he's not. His rework failed to make him unique and at anything past gold he's still just an ult bot.
Malicious Metal3 votesWell the Garen changes did look incomplete compared to Shyvana's anyways^^ Glad you're putting so much effort in giving champions that have fallen out of flavor some love.^^
Are there any more champions you've got your eye on or is that too early to say anyways. Because I really like this approach, it's not only interesting but the changes usually really help bring older kits up to date.
Hunted90004 votesMordekaiser needs so much love...
Malicious Metal3 votesHe could really use a smaller scope update like the others, yes.
RiotRiot Axes9 votesGaren's not likely to get a large set of changes - probably just one mechanic and maybe a little numbers tweaking. Shyvana's scope isn't going to be any kind of standard, she received more changes than will be typical.
As for who else - not sure. We chose Shyvana and Garen because they were champions we needed to work on for balance reasons anyway.
And, just so we're clear, sometimes a balance change will be just a balance change. This is something experimental we're trying; we think it's promising, but I don't want to hard commit to doing lots more before we've had a chance to assess our results.
Predatorator2 votesWhat about Skarner? not trying to be a dick, repertoir wrote that he wanted to make him less dependant on his crystals some months ago, but since then...nothing. Should i expect those changes to be scrapped till the vgu? thanks for your time =)
Devtavius2 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JKJwZZax,comment-id=001600030003,timestamp=2016-11-11T17:08:26.941+0000)
Garen's not likely to get a large set of changes - probably just one mechanic and maybe a little numbers tweaking. Shyvana's scope isn't going to be any kind of standard, she received more changes than will be typical.
As for who else - not sure. We chose Shyvana and Garen because they were champions we needed to work on for balance reasons anyway.
And, just so we're clear, sometimes a balance change will be just a balance change. This is something experimental we're trying; we think it's promising, but I don't want to hard commit to doing lots more before we've had a chance to assess our results.
Would you consider reverting his move speed nerfs (the base movespeed nerf and the % movespeed bonus on his q).
When I think of Garen I think of a guy who can charge his way through a battlefield and cut through his foes as he does it. Right now it doesn't feel that way seeing as how he gets stopped in his tracks at the slightest cc.
Would you also consider giving him back his tenacity reduction? I feel like it was a big part of his kit/playstyle. He literally yells: "Break their ranks!" when he activates e, but right now he isn't doing much breaching. More like scratching at the surface of a beefy frontline while getting destroyed by the backline.
Even if you don't decided to do anything else, I am very thankful for the current changes that you have set in stone. Much appreciated!
Dominick Destine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JKJwZZax,comment-id=001600030003,timestamp=2016-11-11T17:08:26.941+0000)
Garen's not likely to get a large set of changes - probably just one mechanic and maybe a little numbers tweaking. Shyvana's scope isn't going to be any kind of standard, she received more changes than will be typical. As for who else - not sure. We chose Shyvana and Garen because they were champions we needed to work on for balance reasons anyway. And, just so we're clear, sometimes a balance change will be just a balance change. This is something experimental we're trying; we think it's promising, but I don't want to hard commit to doing lots more before we've had a chance to assess our results.
When is Shyvana going to ship?
Also who the DRAVEN are you ? I have never seen "Riot Axes" before and I have been browsing the Riot forums since S1.
RiotRiot Axes3 votesBarring something going horribly wrong, Shyvana will be in 6.23.
Also, I've been around on the boards for a few years? I spent most of my time at Riot as a Gameplay Systems designer - lots of item work plus some larger features like Elemental Dragons. I'm on Live Gameplay now, hence the discussions about champ balance and mini-updates.
Shíny3 votesAre the rek'sai changes looking like they might come in 6.24-7.1?
RiotRiot Axes14 votesAre the rek'sai changes looking like they might come in 6.24-7.1?
We're still working on her actively, but it'll be longer than that. The problems we want to solve have more to do with identity and balanceability, which takes quite a bit longer to do well. More Alistar scope than Nasus or even Shyvana scope.
Cygone2 votes
no armor pen no %healt damage, R rexcluding opponent lane vs 
or
receives garen damage seriously reduced is happening My advice %healt damage or villian damage %1.5 or %2 buff Garen vs All tank garen 0 damage... including garen low damage, damage buff must 1v1 fiora true damage darius armor pen bonus ad damage,renekton anger bonus damage armor pen damage,voli ad ap damage,jax ap ad damage,olaf true damage,ırelia true damage,ekko,fizz %healt damage garen Only physical damage this item garen damage is 0 garen lane 1 v 1 villian true bot lane Lucian marked opponent target ourselves If you could choose 1 v 1 he balanced could Garen Other top lane champions compared It remains seriously weak Garen buff please... 
vs Garen lose because %healt damage have moreover much more movement speed have Garen cumbersome
Garen Arm pen buff very sensible TY RİOT
Joseraph7 votesEnglish motherfucker, do you speak it?
Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votesDon't forget Aatrox
RiotRiot Axes12 votes[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JKJwZZax,comment-id=00160009,timestamp=2016-11-11T09:17:48.746+0000)
Don't forget Aatrox
We're not going to forget Aatrox, but early next year remains much more likely than this year.
Photos of Ghosts2 votesBy "next year" you mean 2017, right? Not 2018 I hope.
RiotRiot Axes13 votes2017, yes.
Photos of Ghosts3 votesOh then by mid january-ish? Daz kewl :D
The Blue Rajah5 votesYou have a surprisingly specific definition of "early next year." I wouldn't count on mid January. Some point before April is a more realistic hope in my opinion.
Goodnight Nunu4 votesIs Mordekaiser being considered?
Photos of Ghosts2 votesRegarding that, how about you think about Aatrox and bringing him in line with other skirmishers? Yi has the "can't be slowed", Trynda is unkillable, Fiora has Riposte and the AoE heal. Aatrox should get something like an Olaf ult as well - but that instead of just deleting CC, converts it into DoT that he has to lifesteal in order to survive.
RivetAce2 votesOr make him the anti-knockup diver. Any time he gets knocked into the air, his Q comes off cooldown and can be cast while in the air.
EROTIC RAID BOSS4 votesIs it just me or is this Juggernaut round 2: electric boogaloo? I like it so far, looking forward to a bit of love for the problem children too.
La Bello4 votesspeaking of "mini reworks"....
BRING BACK MY EDGE REWORK PLOX!(just add some fine tuning and number adjustments)
also....MY SUGGESTIONS CANDIDATES FOR NEXT MINI REWORK CHAMPS!
her E is very underwhelming from a visual and gameplay perspective
his W gimmick doesn't hold up as much since his initial release. Players now know to watch for the actual model reset not to mention his kit is very straightforward and cheesy to lane against(using W not to fool but to make retaliation outright next to impossible during trades). Something like making his E spawn Decoys per effected target instead would be alot better for mind-games and teamfighting.
nerf his ability to proxy @ early levels because its toxic (you shouldnt be able to win lane by outright not participating in it). Move his ult to his passive and give him something more interesting in its place that accentuates his "wreck havoc by running around like a maniac" playstyle.
R falls off ridiculously hard and once bite is used you really feel like you're threat level significantly diminished.He really just need "something to do" while he waits for his more important CD's.
JerulEon2 votesHi Axes! Avid Garen player here. I like the changes to his E. Garen has always been lacking some strength in his juggernaut personality. His health and HP per level are very low relative to other juggernauts and he doesn't have great early damage. The new change helps one aspect but his health is gated by his passive, W active and passive. Not only can you cap out the W passive in less than 20 minutes, but he also has so little health for his W active and passive to be very impactful most of the game. Changes to his health and W would be the best things to consider as well. Maybe even add some slow resistance to his Q speed up. Thank you for all you do!
AMYS GRAVE1 votesThis may have been said many times before, but i'll echo it anyway.
I really like the shyvana changes, but the RNG dependance of them really sounds off. What if i've maxed my CDR and an ocean drake spawns? It is close but it doesn't feel quite right.
RiotRiot Axes3 votesWe're not shipping the RNG version of it - pulled that out of the build today. Probably will still be at least partially tied to dragon, though.
bad arcade kitty1 votesif they give shyvana 2 stuns on her ult and a new stronger passive with a direct damage reduction (it was in a supposed leak/promise, i don't have a pbe acc) she will be a permabanned cancer -_-
Malicious Metal23 votesWhich they didn't.
They gave her more HP in dragon form, a revamped E dragon ability and some other changes. Especially stuff Shyvana players asked for like being uninterruptible during her Ult-
They would never give her a ton of hard cc, she's a juggernaut, not a tank.
Saianna1 votesThey gave her more HP in dragon form,
From all the things Shyvana missed Health was never an issue..
All those tiny buffs could be traded for 1 or 2 additional leaps in dragon form. At least it'd feel unique'ish
Malicious Metal11 votesThe hp and uninterruptible ult helps her diving capabilities.
Besides, I'd kill to get 350 more hp as Mordekaiser.
RivetAce8 votesOr maybe a little armor? Giant suit of armor possessed by an undead being, less base armor than Zyra, a plant lady wearing no clothes.
bad arcade kitty8 votesAll those tiny buffs could be traded for 1 or 2 additional leaps in dragon form. At least it'd feel unique'ish
bunny girl shyvana~ <3 aww