Throwing down the gauntlet about Yorick. (From a Yorick Main)

DragonShea··3 votes·304 views

Ok listen up. As a Yorick main, I am getting pretty sick of people not really knowing what the fuck Yorick really needs and how to better tune him up. Look with the recent 7.14 update Yorick is getting a better ghouls response with his E tagging but their damage has been lowered, well even if they don't hit harder now BUT they are more or less guaranteed to hit on arrival, essentially making his E deal more reliable damage but that is not the issue. The issue is that Yorick has too much power in his minions, ghouls and maiden and not enough outside that. it's one of the reasons he needs to get item 3078 Both for last hitting and for damage. without it he lacks power unless he has his ghouls with him. Not just that. but he lacks means of summoning ghouls effectively outside the laning phase where he has a constant source ghouls to gain from the minion wave, so unless he has a minion wave approaching he can't do much apart from slowing or walling. He has decent utility but he needs the damage and with that damage coming from his ghouls he can't really do that much damage outside that. His greatest weakness his that he too punishing windows of power, he weak outside them but even when he has a moment of power, it's easily countered.

So here is the thing. Yorick is not like Heimer, Zyra or Malzahar, as they have a far easier means to summon minions to fight for them, while Yorick is gated by minion deaths while not having enough power in his kit to fight ghoul less. And that leaves him in a position that forces him to get ghouls or risk falling off. unlike Darius or Illoai, who I called "Raid Boss Juggernauts" in a previous post. Yorick can't force fights. Darius can hook and force the target into melee range and Illoai can rip the soul out of the target, forcing their hand. But Yorick can't, he has to prepare graves and as a juggernaut that is not a good thing as juggs are by design, eager to murder anyone but have to be patience and tactical as they are melee and have unreliable ranged abilities to force fights with. If Yorick could summon ghouls with his E he would be able to force fights like the rest of them could.

And I see a lot of people talking Yorick. Yorick, Yorick, Yorick. But don't have a clue about what the hell they want to improve his late game. Absolutely clueless and anytime I post any Ideas they get shot down because people rather want to be clueless and then wonder why Rito don't do shit with Yorick. Having mained him like one trick pony. I have the insight to tell you what he needs and I don't care about your bullshit unless you can debunk my ideas with valid counter arguments, so here is what Yorick needs.

He needs better ways to Summon Ghouls

One of Yorick's weaknesses is his inability to summon ghouls without kills, So if his E could summon ghouls if it hit it's target, he would be able to have fight better when he is alone as he can summon ghouls on demand, meaning that if he misses his E, he is fucked. but if he lands it. it's you who is screwed. I don't mind them dealing less damage in exchange for them being more available and consistent. Every Time i have stated this I have gotten downvote after downvote and no one is brave enough to explain why it's an issue. Like I said before. Yorick can't force fights like Darius or Illaoi so what is the point of not giving him a key trait that juggs have? If Ghouls are too strong late game then they should just have less scaling as a trade-off for consistently.

Here is an example of what Yorick's E could become.

Mourning Mist: TARGET RANGE: 700 COST: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 MANA COOLDOWN: 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8

ACTIVE: Yorick hurls a globule of Black Mist that splashes across an off-centered area, dealing 15% of target's current health magic damage to all enemies hit and summons 1-4 Ghouls(1 + 1 for each rank of his ult) if at least one champion is hit, down to a minimum threshold.

MINIMUM MAGIC DAMAGE: 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+ 70% AP)

Affected enemy champions and monsters are Slow icon slowed by 30% for 2 seconds, and marked for 4 seconds, during which Yorick gains 20% bonus movement speed when moving towards them.

So here is the big Question, Why is this a bad design when it will make Yorick as a champion more smooth?

6 Comments

Ralanr1 votes

While I'm not really sure about making Yorick's E able to summon ghouls, I do agree that after laning phase he has much more difficulty in summoning ghouls, especially in teamfights. Granted he's not supposed to be even that great in teamfights, since he's supposed to splitpush (and it's not hard to get three graves from a single wave so long as you're alone).

Since Yorick is intended to be weaker without his ghouls, I think they should make passive grave generation much faster after laning. In lane it's every 12 deaths spawns a grave, out of lane it should be much shorter, like every three minion deaths by 16 spawn a grave or something.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

While I'm not really sure about making Yorick's E able to summon ghouls, I do agree that after laning phase he has much more difficulty in summoning ghouls, especially in teamfights. Granted he's not supposed to be even that great in teamfights, since he's supposed to splitpush (and it's not hard to get three graves from a single wave so long as you're alone).

Since Yorick is intended to be weaker without his ghouls, I think they should make passive grave generation much faster after laning. In lane it's every 12 deaths spawns a grave, out of lane it should be much shorter, like every three minion deaths by 16 spawn a grave or something.

Yo Ralanr Good to see your comment on the matter. I understand that as a split pusher Yorick is not going to be that good at teamfights but without ghouls, all he has is his Q and a weak poke with his E. In some matchups his W can wall people and secure kills but being gated like that means he is an easy kill and only gets off because he builds tanky like most juggs do. If you placed such obstacles on other, squisher champs that summon pets, they would be trash tier in no time.

This also means that he can't in the laning phase, pull a reversal on a gank. Unlike Ilaoi and Darius with Tentacle overload or double passive stacking. Many time when you got pets you are 125-150% power and around 66-75% without them. Yorick on the otherhand is at 100% power with ghouls and 50% without them. that is bad design (that is when you are excluding ults ofc)

Ralanr1 votes

Imo, most juggernauts actually suck at dealing or reversing ganks (but that's because in my experience the lack of hard CC makes it very difficult. I play mainly tank though so I'm biased).

Imo it isn't exactly bad design since Riot wanted to push the necromancer part on Yorick. Plus if Yorick was strong without his ghouls then he wouldn't have a clear window of weakness to capitalize on and he'd be more oppressive with his ghouls.

The ghouls themselves need to be more durable to spells and AoE abilities imo. I think it's fine that one AA kills then, it means some champions will be slower to kill them over others. But with how much time it takes for them to come up, having them removed by AoE or dying in one tower shot late game feels unsatisfactory.

At the very least they should be much more resistant to AoE damage late game and be able to take two tower shots before death. And maybe the tower could focus the ghouls before the maiden (or does it focus the maiden before the ghouls? Either way, it makes the maiden a rather poor solo push threat).

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

Imo, most juggernauts actually suck at dealing or reversing ganks (but that's because in my experience the lack of hard CC makes it very difficult. I play mainly tank though so I'm biased).

Imo it isn't exactly bad design since Riot wanted to push the necromancer part on Yorick. Plus if Yorick was strong without his ghouls then he wouldn't have a clear window of weakness to capitalize on and he'd be more oppressive with his ghouls.

The ghouls themselves need to be more durable to spells and AoE abilities imo. I think it's fine that one AA kills then, it means some champions will be slower to kill them over others. But with how much time it takes for them to come up, having them removed by AoE or dying in one tower shot late game feels unsatisfactory.

At the very least they should be much more resistant to AoE damage late game and be able to take two tower shots before death. And maybe the tower could focus the ghouls before the maiden (or does it focus the maiden before the ghouls? Either way, it makes the maiden a rather poor solo push threat).

Yeah, AoE has been an issue for ghoul and having Ghouls being harder to kills would help to make them more reliable in the late game. I think that them being strong enough to survive a few hits is important. Having them scale with HP makes you want to worry about getting resistances and I think that Ghouls should have a hit point system like wards do.

Jo0o1 votes

His passive already does scale. By late game it's every 4 minion deaths.

Ralanr1 votes

Yeah I don't even notice that late game.

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