Hey Jungler! Episode 2: I'll help if you ping! No Ping huh? Oh we got a badass over here.

Occams Raiser··2 votes·708 views

Once again I am bronze. Please don't shame just explain. I watched a video that explained that many champs aren't viable in the jungle or considered strong picks because at low levels when you engage an enemy jungler lane mates will not come to your aid. I watched pro play and saw that helping the jungle when he is close is a great way to help everyone snowball through the jungler. If I am adc I rolling on fools when you the "caw caw!" I'm in his ass. If I am support and you are bot, I'm there Most adc's will continue to cs at low levels anyway. I say it at the beginning of the game. But then silence.

What level do I need to rise to before this type of behavior becomes appreciated and my offer is accepted? I have even had people tell me they don't want help with Drag. Before we discuss, lets toss out a certain percentage player on just being dumb trolls. We can go with the 80/20 rule and talk about the core players that don't know about this level of play. A jungler needs map awareness, vision, and his boys to the left and right.

If I tell you to ping and we will roll on this fool in jungle, Why you no ping?

12 Comments

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

not pinging isnt really a jungle-exclusive problem. i think junglers use alot more pings in general than any other role except MAYBE the support. the better question is, you are zed midlane and you pushed the enemy ap kogmaw in, why dont you come help me duel this lee sin? why? i pinged like 20 times BEFORE I EVEN STARTED ENGAGING HIM and 20 more times during the fight.

Occams Raiser1 votes

That is a large problem with teamwork.

Angry Monster1 votes

I know I am late to the party here, but I saw the link for topic 2 in your most recent thread.

When playing with friends I at times tell them to not help with Dragon. The reason is lane control, enemy zoning and hiding what I am doing.

So for lane pressure is about creep control or tower threat. You are making the enemy choose from possibility of me doing Dragon to a known lane threat. Unknown versus known , known usually wins out and gives safety. If you are seen heading towards Dragon it like a big warning sign.

So for zoning you already know where the enemy is and position your self in away that makes the enemy not want to see what is that way. It's better to one-way from Dragon than by it. This gives you more time to harass them away and possibly giving u mobility options.

Last one here is that if everyone is missing people know where to check. I may not be able to hide when I get the Dragon but I can hide the fact that I did it.

Sometimes u need to ask your self , is it safer cause I am there(as a lanner) or can I be hidding what is going on by doing something else. Sometimes you can get a Dragon and a tower. Or you could be checking baron to make sure they are not getting a different objective.

Occams Raiser1 votes

So for lane pressure is about creep control or tower threat. You are making the enemy choose from possibility of me doing Dragon to a known lane threat. Unknown versus known , known usually wins out and gives safety. If you are seen heading towards Dragon it like a big warning sign.

Now this makes sense. Someone could say. "stay in lane while I sneak dragon." Who do you main as jungler?

Angry Monster1 votes

So for a jungler its does not just making sense it is common sense. (warning personal opinion here) i should not have to tell people how to think or where they should be. If i go to dragon and i am not pinging it, i probably do not want your help. I expect you to realize that I am at the dragon and to take the correct action. If i ping the dragon that usually means everyone get over here, they may or may not know i we are taking it.

I think you say this in thread 3, that junglers are thinking about the jungle / game. We are maybe thinking about 13 different things. For the first 15 minutes of the game i am trying to guess where the enemy jungler is to avoid or pick him off, which means thinking 1 minute to 2 minutes in advance. Junglers hate being told how to do their role, why would i tell you how to do yours? I am busy as fuck tracking 3 lanes and guessing what the 5th man is doing.

/rant Here is a rant about main. Its fucking joke to main a champion. 1 champion does not do it all, some games you need a tank, some times you need dps, split push, ect. To main 1 is to limit your self and keep your self from deeper understanding of the game. The idea of maining 1 champ is a trash that diamond players trick low elo with. You will get ahead if you just play 1 guy, what fucking BS. /rant

The champs i am most recently taking in to the jungle Vi XinZhao Hecarim Nautilus Sion

Others i take on whim or a i feel the need due to bans or comp choices Shyvana Diana Pantheon Nocturne Olaf Volibear MonkeyKing Skarner Maokai Fiora

Occams Raiser1 votes

i should not have to tell people how to think or where they should be.

This is a level one problem. Sounds like a woman saying "if you don't know what's wrong, I'm not going to tell you."

If I see you go for dragon and I have their lane pushed to their turret, I might come help if I am a tanky or healing support. I would be thinking I don't want you to have to back after dragon unless you want to. If we bang out dragon with no one looking you can go right to mid and get a gank before you back. This is why junglers should be more vocal. I almost never jungle. I don't know what you are thinking a lot. And we play with different level jungler all the time. Some want help with dragon so they aren't in river with their ass out as long. I don't know if you are the kind that wants help or not. Just say it at the beginning of the game.

On your next point, I'm trying to figure out how to help you while you are jungling. If you engage bot jungle with an enemy, I might come to help if I am full health. I want the enemy jungler to know that we are rolling deep, he better scrap his plans about counter jungling.

You use the strong junglers. Good list.

Angry Monster1 votes

I play at a g3 level in ranked and get matched and win against plats and diamonds in normal. I should not have to teach anyone anything about league in game, and do not. They should already know and usually do, if their heads are out of their asses.

Also it is not my job to teach others to be better. If you think its every ones job to share the knowledge you are wrong. I am perfectly happy letting the stupid fall down to their actual elo. No one taught me, i had to work things out and i started as a season 2 ADC.

This is not the woman's complex like you think it is. You are bronze for a reason, and your comment about the woman's complex proves it. For 2 threads (1st and 3rd)you have said you are doing things right or know how. But you are making threads asking why things are done X way. You understand less than you think you do. Watching videos from you tubers does not mean you understand.

The people you are playing with have no relationship or obligation to teach you. As you rise through the ranks you will figure it out or stall out.

/warning This is a friendly warning. You are currently bronze 2 and about to hit a speed bump where the skill picks up b1/s5. It kicks up again at s4 to s2. Then again at s1 to g5. at every point forward you are going to have to step up your play.

I try to constantly add to my pool instead of limiting my self. I only drop a champ when you i can not use them due to season changes, like eve.

I also can play 5 different supports. 4 mid laners and a few different non viable junglers in the top lane. I am what you call well rounded at this point.

Occams Raiser1 votes

You have an odd bitterness to you. You sound jaded and I know why. What don't understand is why it always seems to shock me. Throughout gaming there has always been those that hold onto knowledge knowing that was the only thing that separated them from others. As soon as everyone else had that knowledge, they would be cast aside.

Either this game is straight forward and there is only only one correct solution to an scenario, thus everyone will learn what it is in time. OR this game is complicated and there are various ways to surmount a problem and coordination is the key. Why do the pros use headsets in competition? They aren't shooting the shit while they play. They are higher than you so you would figure they would have better answers to scenarios than you and since they are pro they should already be thinking the same thing and have no need to communicate.

Angry Monster1 votes

LOL i am not bitter, i just do not care about others. I have my family (those that i care about, not all are blood) and that is what i care about. Others are just others, no more and no less. You see my lack of caring about strangers in the wrong light. I do not think people are out to get me, i just think people are out there for own goals. I am in this thread to kill boredom and answer your interesting questions, not cause i feel the need to help everyone.

Actually there is more than 1 way to win. Example is gank heavy junglers versus objective versus farm heavy junglers. Each way is different and have different goals. Is one way better than another? Only in the sense of who you are playing with. Weaker players prefer gank heavy junglers, but that does not make it the only way. Different styles do not translate into different ways to win. The only real way to win is take down the nexus everything else is a stepping stone.

They aren't shooting the shit while they play. They are higher than you so you would figure they would have better answers to scenarios than you and since they are pro they should already be thinking the same thing and have no need to communicate.

They are talking about states of the game and how they want to optimally coordinate. They are constantly feeding information to the shot callers to decide the optimal play. That level of coordination will never exist out side of premades, so you bring them up is foolish and grasping at straws. Premades have agreed on shot callers

Your bronze is showing again. You are attacking me for not being pro. I have played in top tier competitive leagues for tf2 and l4d 1. You know nothing about me but if you want i can link you my back pack on steam for my plat UGC metals (tf2). I understand competitive play while i may not be a pro LCS players (never claimed to be), I understand the game well enough.

I am not attacking you for bronze but you need to realize that if you were gold + you would rip through bronze no problem. Lets be honest you are asking questions like why the jungler acts X way cause you do not understand and want to better your self, not cause you are looking to help others.

Occams Raiser1 votes

i just think people are out there for own goals.

LOL. I knew you were cynical before you said so. This normal human tendency isn't even a problem a lot of times cause on a team sport our goals align. Unless glory is your goal. But if Ego is greater than the drive for victory that person is already a failure.

Example is gank heavy junglers versus objective versus farm heavy junglers.

You find it too strenuous to tell me what type of jungler you are at the beginning of the game?

so you bring them up is foolish and grasping at straws. Premades have agreed on shot callers

This is an ego thing. Its not true cause I have had it happen. It is just unfortunate that the ego gets in the way almost as soon as something goes wrong. I have had several games where one person steps up and takes charge. We rally around him even though he might not have the most kills. It is far from anecdotal numbers but far from the majority. And that was through text. But yes premades are always better, just like playing with friends.

Hold off on the "foolish" stuff. We have had a pretty good run. "folly" or "fallacious" is better than commenting on someones mental faculties.

Your bronze is showing again. You are attacking me for not being pro.

This was in part as retaliation to your Div shaming me. The other side was figuring that you would appreciate what those of a higher rank would do more so than just an intelligent argument of common sense form a bronze. When it comes to internet gaming. Most people forget that the person they are talking to might be a fifty year old that just happen to start playing after you did. Whenever you present me with a scenario that dictates I will only understand when I am of a higher rank, I will always counter by showing the statement must be false because your seniors don't stand as a model of your view. If it is actually the case. They are authorities so it isn't Div shaming.

Some of what I ask in my post is merely the Socratic method. I really know the answer to a lot of it but I like seeing other peoples side to arguments. It will enlighten them as well as me. I take martial arts. Senior students training junior students is not a waste of the seniors time. It solidifies the lessons learn as they pass the knowledge down.

Even as you have gotten snippy with me a couple of times, the worst thing I have actually heard you say is, 'I don't teach others cause I don't care about others. No one ever taught me.' I'm paraphrasing but I think I got the sentiment.

Angry Monster1 votes

Its not Div shame. Its fact. I gave you good advise and you are being prideful and not listening. If you think Bronze players are = to sliver or higher you have another thing coming. You will rise or you will not. The people that think that others will do it for them will fall. Those that refuse to learn also will fall.

Its not cynical, its called realistic. To ignore that people are looking out for themselves is idealistic.

You find it too strenuous to tell me what type of jungler you are at the beginning of the game?

yes. First off you should understand the limitations of an jungler that is picked. Examples is diana was weak pre 6 ganks. I should not have to tell anyone this, It is self evident. Vi pre 6 gank is reliant on the enemies over extending. I can want to gank heavily but if the enemy is smart its not going to happen, depending on champ. You are to ridge in your thought process, tell you what i am goings style i am going to find before the game even starts? laughable.

Saying premades have decided shot callers is ego thing really? Or you saying people say sol q people try to lead the pack? Just cause people try and lead does not mean that its agreed thing. I pretty much ignore any ADC that tries to lead. Not cause i think ADCs do not understand the game but that they are not the ones who have to start a fight. Again high level coordination that you were talking about with voice comms does not exist in pick up games aka solo/duo.

Even as you have gotten snippy with me a couple of times, the worst thing I have actually heard you say is, 'I don't teach others cause I don't care about others. No one ever taught me.' I'm paraphrasing but I think I got the sentiment.

this is meaningless? This is not even a horrible thing. So i do not care about others, hardly a issue.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Besides time played and MMR I don't really there is a great way to determine who is better than who in solo queue. But I am aware of differences. If you gave a questionnaire out to players with different tactical choices for scenarios, I have a feeling many would pass the test. If you ask them to put it into effect, games played would come into effect. Of course I am aware that there are differences between the levels. I'm telling you the same thing you are telling me.

Cynical vs realistic is kind of the line we walk when we are taking mental statistics from past experiences. It is the subjective way you look at the data. If it was objectively true, whatever bad thoughts you had of others you would also have for yourself and your family. Once you decide that there are some people that aren't the worst of society, it becomes an us vs them thing. Tribalism is objectively true but not cynical.

On the strength of different junglers. I am pretty aware of the who can gank when. It can also be seen in the meta of who is reliably strong. I want to know the player's limitations. If he thinks he doesn't have any, that is also telling. I suppose even if you don't want to say anything about your jungling in game, I would see what type of jungler you were by level 9.

Saying premades have decided shot callers is ego thing really?

I don't where you got this. I might have not been clear or needed a paragraph break. The ego comment was in relation to solo queue never having a shot caller cause no one would want to give up reigns to a stranger. Intuitive or not, for self preservation alone one voice should rise above the others by level six. If I see someone start to carry I will rally around him. If he never falters he is the leader by pace alone.

I had an adc dc for a few minutes one time. I was playing a carry support so I had been csing while he was gone. In the mean time our Yas was GETTING OFF in peoples asses. When the adc comes back he is still trying to act like the carry. I told him he was too far behind and he would have to catch up over time. I wasn't going to switch back to full support. I told him he was not the carry. Started talking about adc being inherently the the carry. Yada yada, we won. He wanted to call shots. My voice rose above him and Our Yasuo's actions rose above all.

Solo people don't try to lead all the time. Many just refuse to follow.

this is meaningless? This is not even a horrible thing. So i do not care about others, hardly a issue.

I can see why** you** would think this.

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