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@Meddler and @Reave - Reksai, Sol, Azir Get Mini-Reworks Before Champs You Made Eyesore?

Winterkill··7 votes·887 views

Reksai was released on December 11, 2014. Aurelion Sol was released around March of last year. Kalista was released November 20, 2014. Azir was released September 16h, 2014. The point of this thread is to bring awareness to the fact that I have read multiple threads and Developer responses that say the above champions deserve a VGU, mini-VGU, art update, lore update, balance update, and more before the list of champions I am about to mention.

All of the champions I will be mentioning have been out for years before these champions, have been reworked to the point that they are no longer who they used to be, no Department at Riot Games can be bothered to do the appropriate work on, have ignored community feedback asking for changes to rectify mistakes they made, cannot be bothered to communicate about champions they know the work they did horribly on, and use the VGU excuse because they cannot be bothered to admit that time and time again they are told not to do something and they don't listen. What makes it even worse is that these Developers will find any excuse in the book to not work on rectifying mistakes on a champion they purposely made worse or are ignoring on purpose.

Aatrox Karma Mordekaiser Malzahar Vladimir Shen Shaco

The Live Game Update team have said on multiple occasions that Reksai is the next mini-rework they are going to be working. Mini-reworks are minor art changes, kit changes, lore changes, and more. After Reksai it was mentioned several times that Aurelion Sol is going to receive a mini-rework after. I ask myself when Riot Games comes on to the forums and say that newer champions like Reksai, Aurelion Sol, Kalista, Azir, Ekko . . . and more . . . . deserve a mini-rework, drastic changes to their kits, lore changes, art changes, and a ton of more stuff . . . . over the above champions that have had their identities ruined, kits completely changes, lore screwed up, incomplete and terrible visual update, ruined and confusing gameplay . . . . . it makes me wonder if the Developers on the art, live game update, champ up, lore, and other teams really care about the champions they have made an eyesore to the League of Legends community.

@Meddler and @Reave You are in favor of keeping work on the champions icons I listed. You changed Malz for a passive that quite frankly no one really likes and would prefer to be reverted and have his old kit back. You removed Karma's fans and said you would put it on a new champion instead, removed her shield bomb for a passive shield bot ability that is made stronger by building shield and heal enhanced items. You turned Morde into this concoction of an ADC/mage/tank . . . thing that was a good idea conceptually but poorly executed and ignored up until now. You added a stupid spirit sword mechanic to Shen that is kinda out of place and didn't really need to be put on him. Aatrox is constantly being ignored. Vlad is a mess.

Your teams think prioritizing work on a recently relased champion like Reksai and Aurelion Sol, is more important than rectifying mistakes on all of the champions you purposely made impossible to like anymore. Your teams created the mess. Your teams fail to rectify the mistakes. Your teams respond to maybe one or two threads a year about any of these champions and say you think they are in a good place right now. Your teams find every excuse known to man to not work on these champions. Your teams can sit in a computer desk and tell fans of these champions one or two times a year that you really care about these champions, but not at the expense of 4 Ryze reworks, a Reksai mini-rework, a Aurelion Sol mini-rework, a kit and art change to champions like Brand, Vel'Koz, Annie, Fizz, and more. I just read the patch notes for the latest path on the PBE and your Live Game Update team is now going back to Fizz after his mage update and doing heavy work on changes to him. You are showing favoritism and not actually working on the champions you screwed up.

Stop saying you care and show it. You don't care @Meddler and @Reav3.

Aatrox Karma Mordekaiser Malzahar Vladimir Shen Shaco

Fix them before your poster child champions.

14 Comments

Oleandervine5 votes

I think you're confused about a few things. Kalista , Azir , RekSai , and AurelionSol are going to have minor kit overhauls, which will be more extensive than typical patch work, and possibly more extensive than the major champs in class updates. Nowhere that I have seen has stated that these champions are getting any art work redone other than in the event of new particle and VFX changes that may occur due to kit changes - all of these champions are moderately new to fairly new, and their overall art is in no need of any kind of work. The only word on these champions is that they have inherent problems in their kit designs that make them unable to be properly balanced, and their kits will have to be addressed. This is NOT a VGU or mini VGU, this is a plain gameplay update.

The champions you listed, Aatrox Karma Mordekaiser Malzahar Vladimir Shen Shaco, are a mixed bag in terms of how they have been received and what about them has been changed, and your grief with them is almost purely based on your personal opinion. Also, Riot has addressed these champions at several points: Aatrox - Riot has blatantly stated that he is going to be one of the chosen ones for a kit rework in an upcoming class update. Why you seem intent on thinking they haven't or won't address him after they've announced this on numerous occasions, I don't have any idea. Karma - Karma is in a good place right now. Sure, her old kit had it's fans, both actual fans and players who loved it, but it was problematic and bland, so I'm told. Her overhaul was controversial because of this, but her current design is not bad, problematic, or anything more than just being what her old design isn't. The hate for Karma's kit is purely unbridled opinion at this point. Mordekaiser - He is the only one who's got redesigned as an experiment that colossally failed. Riot has admitted this. He will need work, but he's vaguely playable and currently not breaking the game. He's passable, and while this will upset his fans, it's not a detriment to his gameplay health. Malzahar - He got changed, yes. Is it completely horrible? No. He's in need of numbers tuning to get him where he needs to be, but otherwise, he's not that different than he once was. His changes upset his fans, but again, this is based on opinion at the moment. He'll get there, but he's by no means a failure or a botched gameplay update. Vladimir - He's in the same boat as Malzahar. He's playable, and he needs some more tweaking, but this can be done in patches, and doesn't require extensive work. Again, his dislike is based on opinion. Shen - Shen has been regarded as a failure by Meddler and it has been stated that he probably should have gotten a full VGU. That doesn't mean that this is off of the table - he's basically half complete in that respect, so it could happen. I agree that his kit is a bit too dramatically different from before, but it's not terrible, he just feels incomplete in terms of visuals and vocals. Shaco - I honestly never played Shaco before and I haven't played him much after his kit work. He still seems the same to me, and just as obnoxious. I would chalk this dislike up to opinion, because his play style doesn't seem that dramatically different than it used to be, as someone playing against and alongside Shaco over the years.

These champions above have kits that are passable in their current states, and in some cases, have no problems at all other than sour opinions.

The other four, Kalista, Azir, RekSai, and AurelionSol, however have proven to cause problems if they are not nerfed substantially, as they tend to underperform in casual players hands, but utterly destroy the competition in the hands of the pros. They suffer from kit designs that must be dumpstered to ensure they don't break the game, and this is why they will be getting attention over the other champions who have passable kits that possibly require number tweaks in the patches.

IxtaliKing2 votes

Karma is in a good place right now. Sure, her old kit had it's fans, both actual fans and players who loved it, but it was problematic and bland, so I'm told. Her overhaul was controversial because of this, but her current design is not bad, problematic, or anything more than just being what her old design isn't. The hate for Karma's kit is purely unbridled opinion at this point.

I agree with your general assessment of Karma being in a good place power wise, she's not weak and she's not over powered. However, that isn't the core of the discontent in the Karma community. You say her original kit was bland, but her current kit is also bland and lacks a discernable theme. Her old kit was problematic in terms of balance, but her new kit is problematic in terms of cohesion.

So yeah I just wanted to step in and briefly and explain that the gripes many people have with Karma aren't irrational or without good reason. Naturally when you main a champ you want what's best for them, so to see the departure from Karma's original battlemage playstyle to one of a more standard Enchanter playstyle, is just... sad.

Winterkill2 votes

You are being to modest with your responses.

Aatrox could benefit more from the mini-rework they are giving Reksai and Kalista over a class update. They have ignored most responses about him and will not address the community in regards to his kit. Yet they can go on for months talking about how Reksai is terrible and needs more work than him.

Karma is a mess. Before her rework she had a decent playstyle that didn't force her to sit in the back, spam one button, and buy shield/heal enhancing items. A Developer can make any champion in this game balanced with the right numbers, the fact of the matter is it doesn't mean their kit is better, unique to the game, great for the champion, and the replacement was better than before. It wasn't.

Sukishoo1 votes

Rek'sai is often seen in pro play Aatrox is not, so of course they are going to go for her over him.

Castalia2 votes

Are you saying these are all underpowered or they just need changing?

Winterkill1 votes

I am saying Riot is purposely taking away things about these champions and replacing them with ideas they do not run by the community or care to revert. Here are two examples:

Remove Karma's fans for a mantle that doesn't move, isn't very appealing, and is poorly designed . . . . and the Developers tell us that they didn't expect the Karma community to miss her fans so much and that they put it in her dance taunt, but she will never receive the fans back and it will most likely be put on a new champion. Riot Games also removed her shield bomb for a shield ability that doesn't fit her lore, is number buffed to death, forces her to sit in the back and spam one button the entire game, forces her to build shield and heal enhance items to be relevant in the game, and offers nothing new to the game. It's ok though . . . . they put a version of shield bomb on Ivern.

Using a concept for a mage/adc/tanky role in the bot lane for Morde that was a good idea on paper but poorly executed and ignored up until now. Most of his kit was changed and it sounds like a good idea but it is terrible because Riot Games is too lazy to take the time to work on it or revert the changes for when he can get a VGU. Why bother working on him when Ryze can get 4 reworks and Reksai can get the new Mini-rework.

Don't make me talk about how much and long Aatrox is being ignored by them.

FurriesAreHot2 votes

No. Most of the champions you mention are only weak because the meta. Sol is a fine champion, Shen is fine Karma is is fine.

Penns1 votes

"Favoritism towards Fizz".. I wish item 3070 lel

Winterkill1 votes

Assassin rework, more work done on him than the champions combined, and right now 3-4 months of back and back kit changes and number buffs. You look at it and tell me otherwise. Meanwhile Aatrox, Morde and other champions are ignored. Let's not forget about a Reksai mini-rework happening before any work on the champions I listed.

Penns1 votes

A "small" rework that, Im pretty sure, Riot even admitted was pretty... lets say hurried. Then only small bugfixes and stuff, which is normal after a rework. Almost all of them nerfed him too, like E not doing damage if he dies before it goes off. Many people say his ult attachment radius got stealth nerfed at some point as well.

Now he gets direct changes in 7.5 after Fizz players complaining for months, which is also normal after a rework.

Iron Wu1 votes

Considering a lot of the older champions need complete reworks, that takes time. Being able to tweak champions who are under-performing now that don't need full reworks are a lot easier and faster to do to get them back out on the rift.

Jbels1 votes

Nah. I don't think any of those champions needs Visual updates. They've aged pretty well, which is Riot's whole thing when it comes to champions now. Kit reworks, maybe.

Rek'sai needs a clear identity that gets across the point of her theme into her kit, not just her looks/lore.

Azir and Aurelion are both in the same boat, being champions that are extremely powerful, but only in the hands of masters. They need mini reworks that will make them more accessible to more (novice) players, so that they can grow their own playerbases.

Kalista...well, certainlyT designed her, and I think that pretty much speaks for itself. imo she needs an overhauled kit that doesn't force her to be useless until she has 2 items for the sake of compensating for her excessive power from her passive

Spartan Sol1 votes

Aatrox doesn't need a mini rework.. he needs a full rework same with kalista. the rest on that list have their niches.. shaco isnt bad neither is karma or shen. while they do need changes they arent an immediate issue like aatrox kalista azir or reksai

Nameless Voice1 votes

Champions who break the game (are too oppressive when they are played, ruin the fun for others, and need to be kept intentionally over-weakened to discourage people from playing them at all) should take priority over champions who are merely underperforming or not as cool as they should be.

A really problematic champion can ruin the games of everyone who encounters them, while a champion who is merely less cool than they could be only affects the mains of that champion.

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