So with this Singed Support guy getting banned for refusing to cooperate.

warpenguin555·Nov 14, 2016·105 votes·9,501 views

I can now actually report those supports who decided to go full damage, Steal CS all game when the ADC is right there, and don't build .

This is proof that you can't queue up for support and play it as a second what ever role you really wanted. After you build Sightstone, do whatever the hell you want but you do need to build it and be warding.

Singed guy (idk his name so thats what ill call him) wasnt banned for breaking the meta, he got banned for borderline trolling while he did it. Imagine if the top laner decided to take smite and do that same thing, or if mid lane decided to come bot for a double support game. Thats basically what this guy was doing, using support to just go jungle.

135 Comments

DehitayNov 14, 201645 votes

http://imgur.com/7crNai5

As fucked up as it is, Riot actually said "I understand you want to play Singed support, but your teammates do not want you to play Singed support".

Chamuel85Nov 14, 20169 votes

#PrecidentEstablished

warpenguin555Nov 14, 201651 votes

because his version of singed support is borderline trolling. I could go play singed support all day and not even get a warning. Hell i play Maokai and Malphite support and have never once got in trouble, and i have played a good portion of the champions in this game mid lane, no warnings. It wasnt breaking the meta that got him banned its what he did with the pick. That line is pretty fucked up though i will agree

BastionKrossNov 14, 201613 votes

Indeed. This is not about him playing Singed support. It's about him queuing up for support, taking smite, and double jungling.

Dimetri WhiteNov 14, 201610 votes

{quoted}

because his version of singed support is borderline trolling. I could go play singed support all day and not even get a warning. Hell i play Maokai and Malphite support and have never once got in trouble, and i have played a good portion of the champions in this game mid lane, no warnings. It wasnt breaking the meta that got him banned its what he did with the pick. That line is pretty fucked up though i will agree

He said he made it to plat playing it. So IMO if building sightstone and roaming is winning him games, then what's the problem with that? If anything those Lux "supports" should be banned too.

warpenguin555Nov 14, 201614 votes

It doesn't matter how far he makes it, if he was intentionally ruining the game for his team it's deserved. He wasn't building sightstone, and spent the game in the enemy jungle while his adc was stuck in a 2v1 lane. Support is not just play whatever role you want, when you get support you play support. If he wanted to just invade non stop he should have played jungle and nobody would have said a word. But instead he chose to continue doing it knowing full well nobody on his team wanted him to do it. I encourage playing off meta supports but this guy has no intention of supporting and deserved the punishment

SociopathFriendNov 14, 20165 votes

He wasn't building sightstone, and spent the game in the enemy jungle while his adc was stuck in a 2v1 lane.

While I agree on the sightstone, I disagree on deciding "How" he played support defines whether he deserves a ban. Even in Worlds you occasionally saw the Support running into the Jungle to mess with the enemy Jungler. I've done it myself as Nami/Alistar a few times. Causing a buff to reset or getting some free damage on the Jungler can be invaluable in a game since it throws the enemy off-balance, sometimes spectacularly so.

Full-damage supports that burst the enemy are fine Roaming supports that run to other lanes to help are fine Regular "stay in lane and babysit" supports are fine None of these are bannable offenses.

Battlecast SonaNov 14, 20165 votes

from reports it seemed he wasn't just "occasionally roaming into the jungle", homie took smite instead of exhaust so he could counter jungle

SociopathFriendNov 15, 20162 votes

So in other words- he's in trouble because you can't call "double-jungle" in whatever queue he was in?

MrStealYoGanksNov 15, 20163 votes

The issue is they can call double-jungle but if your teammates say no then you can't. If you want to pull off the double-jungle then you need to group with friends, it's not that hard I do it quite a bit. The issue is they copy and pasted what they were going to do and most likely didn't care what their team had to say about it, that is refusing to cooperate. They aren't getting banned for picking Singed support, they are getting banned because they trolled and enough people reported them for it.

Out of their w/r we also don't know how many of those games were decided by other players having to carry them because they decide to duo jungle. If your teammates in multiple games are asking you not to do the things you are doing as support Singed and you don't take a hint that you are griefing, then maybe a 2-week break to think about what you did is best. Instead this person seems to be posting on multiple sites on the Internet throwing a tantrum.

VolcanuzNov 15, 20162 votes

There was a point he would also proxy bot lane. Taking CS from his ADC and EXP.

There is a lot of things this guy was doing which was just outright toxic.

dunkeroniNov 14, 201618 votes

{quoted} if he was intentionally ruining the game for his team

But he wasn't intentionally ruining the game. He was intentionally winning the game with a unique strategy that nobody knew how to counter.

warpenguin555Nov 14, 20169 votes

If that was true he wouldn't have got banned. But instead he forced the ADC to lane alone a ruin his experience because this troll decided to jungle instead of playing support like he was assigned to do. Winning doesn't justify trolling

dunkeroniNov 14, 201613 votes

And being ignorant of strategy doesn't justify reporting, but here we are.

Battlecast SonaNov 14, 201616 votes

there's a difference between being ignorant of strategy and asking someone not to do it. He was banned for refusing to communicate because he said his piece about picking Singed support and roaming/counter jungling/etc, his team said "hey we'd really rather you not do that" and he said "too bad lol".

It's like how I think people who pick Singed to proxy and die 15 times without alerting their team in champ select/discussing it with their team/helping their team strategize/whatever would completely deserve a ban. I don't personally report them, but even understanding how the strategy works it's kind of a dick move because it forces your ENTIRE team to play around YOUR choices. Like yes, I understand that you're proxying their entire base while we fight but we've given up every dragon now so if we don't secure the game they'll likely outscale us.

He's not being banned because "people didn't understand his strategy", he's being banned because your options are basically to definitely lose the game because you make no attempt to adapt to the playstyle of your Singed or to have a really shit experience because you have to make tracker's knife/sightstone on your jungler to keep up in vision since he refuses to build it and your ADC just got flame horizon'd at 15 minutes because they can't even walk up to the creeps to cs. Roaming Singed with smite can totally work in a team comp that supports it, but saying "I'm picking something that essentially requires a team comp built around it to function properly, and it's super off-meta, lol deal with it" is not really something we should encourage.

Only Play DariusNov 15, 20162 votes

I fucking hate having singed on my team 90% of the time all they do is feed the enemy top/jg 10 free kills by repeated failed proxy then act like they helped the team because they got first turret

OdinakosNov 14, 20165 votes

His w/r as singed is good because of his top singed games. His "support" singed games are quite miserable for his team. I didnt see any good personal experience from the reddit topic. Ban well deserved.

ShaolinToiletNov 14, 20163 votes

Did you watch all of his games to see how many he plays in the top lane?

OdinakosNov 14, 20164 votes

They linked his profile at reddit. Cant find it now (other pc). Go dig up the tread for experiences of his previous team8s.

Direct quotes "To be fair, I have seen this guy's gameplay and "refusing to work with the team" is not referring to him playing smite ghost Singed support. He just walks around stealing enemy jungle camps, sometimes his own and ganks other lanes, very rarely goes bot. Once landing phase is over he NEVER groups. Just keeps taking camps and pushing lanes. Doesn't bother running if he has no vision of the enemy team, just ends up getting 3 manned and dies. It is kind of sad to see that the meta has been so defined that people are getting banned for it though :/ Edit: Everyone saying that he's doing good and his team need to follow up, please read the rest of my comment. Edit 2: My first edit also applies to the people saying "that's what singed does"."

"This should be top comment. I played with the guy and can confirm that he's mostly either trolling or ignoring his teammates. We lost that game btw, IMO it was because of him."

Battlecast SonaNov 14, 20165 votes

"You are affecting a lot of players negatively and this is bannable. I highly recommend not doing it anymore except doing it in a group of friends who don't mind that you're playing Singed support to go counter jungle, not build Sightstone, and roam."

I just wonder how anyone could read this email and think he got banned for "playing Singed support". The email is clearly stating that they manually audited it to make sure he wasn't just queueing as an "off-meta" support and found negative behavior on his account. The amount of community members crying about it astounds me in the face of overwhelming evidence that the statement could be Soraka support, Sona support, Janna support (a "meta" support) and he still would've been banned if he played them the way he played Singed. It's not the same as picking Ziggs support and building sightstone/warding for your team/peeling for ADC/etc.

Need Gold 4 TentNov 15, 20162 votes

Surely if the brand support goes 13/2/5 in lane, you're not gonna report him for griefing? Nuking tne enemy carry is not support like at all. He's hijacking a carry's position while queuing as support! Oh, the blasphemy!

Not building SS, building AP, killing instead of peeling (or one could argue killing IS peeling, whatever), but face it, he won the lane for you. Possibly the game. And if you aren't going to report when it succeeds, there is no reason to report when it fails. People aren't gods.

Battlecast SonaNov 15, 20162 votes

Okay, but this Singed was literally leaving his ADC 1v2 and going into the enemy jungle with smite. This isn't an instance of "The AP vel'Koz support double killed their duo bot 3 times", this is "the AP Vel'Koz picked smite/ignite and tried to counter jungle instead of staying in the lane wtf".

I totally will not report someone who plays a weird, off-meta role but at least assists their team or tries to. If you want to play Brand and not build SS I'm not happy with you but I'm not gonna report you unless you're flaming.

But if you pick Brand, don't build SS, and abandon the lane at 2 minutes to go roam, I will absolutely report you 100% of the time even if we win. Because your gameplay style that you forced me to adapt to put me at a significant disadvantage. Someone playing Brand support and going AP and choosing not to build SS puts you at a disadvantage, but not nearly the disadvantage that 2v1ing bottom lane does.

Need Gold 4 TentNov 15, 20162 votes

But you aren't looking at the other results. Instead of the 0/4 Vayne and the 0/5 Thresh at bot lane, you now have a level 4 Lee Sin on the enemy team (while you and your jungler are level 6, and the solo laners level 7, which includes the ADC who admittedly, will likely have a cs deficiency but with a trade off for a level advantage instead)

To top it off, he can't really gank safely anymore for the time being and that's less pressure from their jungler, and more pressure from yours.

Of course, theoretically 100% counterjungle is impossible, and he will inevitably get a few camps, which means Singed would be behind as well because he's sharing jungle. It is here, where the Singed player would have to make the choice to go back to lane for a short while to soak a bit of exp while the jungle camps are still spawning. That, would be tactical decision making, and if poorly done, is not reportable.

ApocalapsusNov 16, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Battlecast Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6eUm2lk,comment-id=0001000300000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T17:05:59.342+0000)

Okay, but this Singed was literally leaving his ADC 1v2 and going into the enemy jungle with smite. This isn't an instance of "The AP vel'Koz support double killed their duo bot 3 times", this is "the AP Vel'Koz picked smite/ignite and tried to counter jungle instead of staying in the lane wtf".

I totally will not report someone who plays a weird, off-meta role but at least assists their team or tries to. If you want to play Brand and not build SS I'm not happy with you but I'm not gonna report you unless you're flaming.

But if you pick Brand, don't build SS, and abandon the lane at 2 minutes to go roam, I will absolutely report you 100% of the time even if we win. Because your gameplay style that you forced me to adapt to put me at a significant disadvantage. Someone playing Brand support and going AP and choosing not to build SS puts you at a disadvantage, but not nearly the disadvantage that 2v1ing bottom lane does.

See that's a pretty wrong mentality. If he puts YOU at a disadvantage but this choice helps the team win, he's doing the right thing. You might get frustrated and report him because you had to 1v2, but it's your mistake in that case. What if he abandons the adc to 1v2 but meanwhile greatly helps the team take kills, dragons, turrets, etc? You report him because you couldnt lane?

There's a fine line between reporting someone like him and reporting any off-meta pick. I've played a lot of vel'koz support for example and I got flamed and reported many times for it. God forbid if you take a kill 1v2 while your adc is in base, they will still scream for KS sometimes. Supports are the true heroes of this game.

RatpocalypseFeb 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

http://imgur.com/7crNai5

As fucked up as it is, Riot actually said "I understand you want to play Singed support, but your teammates do not want you to play Singed support".

It's to bad riot doesn't follow their own summoners code when considering bans.

"Enjoy Yourself, but not at Anyone Else's Expense"

The solo player is told he's not allowed to enjoy himself at others expense? Then if you don't pick the support I want you to play you should be banned, because your enjoYong yourself at my expense. SMH

The support role does NOT say "Support Bot Lane" so he should be allowed to support from Top, Mid, Jungle, or Bot.
Riot has said you cannot be banned for breaking the meta, assuming your intentions are to win the game.
Riot has also stated you will never be banned for not using the in game chat function as pings are sufficient enough communication.
The singed player did indicate his intentions in the pre game lobby, so he communicated with his team. However I'm sure some of the players chose to communicate(rage/whine) AT him instead of with him.

Athenes LuluNov 14, 201616 votes

Not knowing the full story so people bandwagoned the "innocent half" of the story? What a surprise.

Or do people not realize that he was banned for trolling, not because he "simply picked off-meta supports"?

Though Riot's reasoning is also misleading on their part, if anything.

warpenguin555Nov 14, 20167 votes

Clearly they don't. As somebody who plays a ton of off meta picks i could smell the bull shit. This guy deserved the ban

aperson1Nov 14, 201613 votes

Borderline trolling? He made it to Plat elo.

Try "borderline trolling" even half your games and see if you can make it to Plat V. You can't.

He was playing to win every game.

OdinakosNov 14, 20165 votes

His w/r was inflated due to his top singed games. His "support" singed games were a miserable experience for his team. I really dont like repeating myself but this guys was something that was simply not trying when assigned as support.

EndlessSorcererNov 14, 20163 votes

I'll never understand why people don't just dodge if they hate playing a role that much.

OdinakosNov 14, 20162 votes

Or at least try to play his role. Singed support may be good but at least change your build and playstyle. Get an income item, turn into Eye version for wards, (Or FQC if u want the picks) establish vision and try to help your team8s especially adc. Want to invade when sivir has cleared her wave? Fine do it! But make sure she farms. And place some wards on your way in. They help a lot more than you can imagine.

I have been saying it a lot. You were assigned as support? You can actually bring a familiar champion with support capabilties and play him accordingly. Synra eg for Mid lane. She provides poke, 2 cc and enormous burst post 6. Is she top tier? Nope but viable! J4 or Mao for top laners can become decent engage supports. Especially for their mains. Seriously apart from SS and income item (which can combine for a super effective item) all other build are on players choise. I wont forget my silly S4 prenerf Ziggs support games!

Battlecast SonaNov 15, 20162 votes

I still play Ziggs support. 45% cdr minefields? you want to enter the teamfight? TOO DAMN BAD

This is really the crux of it though. It would've been so much easier for him to just slightly modify his gameplay (build SS, occasionally return to lane, wait until you have advantage in lane to roam/counter jungle/etc), but instead everyone ELSE had to modify their gameplay. At the end of the day, why should 4 people have to play differently so 1 guy can be a selfish asshat and play a weird role/build? Especially with how easy it would be to just SS->eye of something->normal Singed build and provide so much more for your team from support role.

CppLNov 14, 201610 votes

I mean if you queue up for a support ,you can play whatever you want,i dont give a shit.But dont go jungle ,dont leave your adc alone in lane ,dont take cs...thats trolling.And i will report you for that.If you wanna jungle pick jngl role .you wanna cs go top lane or mid.Im happy they banned this troll.

notice me Sin piNov 14, 201616 votes

{quoted}

But dont go jungle ,dont leave your adc alone in lane

Bard

warpenguin555Nov 14, 20164 votes

Atleast Bards come back to lane.

bow markerNov 14, 201610 votes

are you sure?

352dalNov 24, 20161 votes

the thing is that he did not want to support. He played an off-meta ROLE not an off- meta pick. he was not support but a second jungler who also stayed with the adc more. The problem is that you cant queue for that role. So he picks the one closer to it which is support.

Chamuel85Nov 14, 20168 votes

Just fyi, Vision isn't just the support's job. It's a big job of the support, but no one role can handle it all anymore. Plus you at least need to escort your support on warding missions in the enemy jungle. :) Plus for a while (maybe even still), Zyra supports (a legit support champ) would not build item 2049 .

HyperiönNov 14, 20169 votes

In Soloq, most of the time supports do it solo. Junglers don't know how to escort their supports in the jungle to get vision.

Chamuel85Nov 14, 20162 votes

They do, but (I'm a support main) it's so much riskier. That also leaves a lot of the map dark. :) No idea how many times I put a ward in a bush and OMG THE JUNGLER! Thank god I'm morgana and land the Q and so I can just safely back right there in front of him before he gets out. ;)

ShifuneNov 14, 20168 votes

So I can report all the ADCS who don't let me use my Face to kill minions now?

Side Note: Smite top was actually a thing when Shyvana top was in meta. She'd get red smite and annihilate whoever she was laning against. She would push her lane to the enemy tower then go steal the enemies top-side jungle. It was very effective.

agbudarNov 14, 20167 votes

the guy got to plat with it and had a good winrate.

he effectively shut down your enemy jungler with it. what is wrong with that?

ParoeNov 14, 20169 votes

{quoted}

the guy got to plat with it and had a good winrate.

he effectively shut down your enemy jungler with it. what is wrong with that?

He wasnt a support but he got placed as support. shrug
Thats riot for ya. enforcing the meta but "really guys we dont enforce the meta".

LeetriNov 15, 20162 votes

Imagine if you're playing soccer/whatever team sport you prefer and there's one guy on your team who's constantly off doing his own thing, taking the ball and just running around in circles with it, kicks you whenever he runs past and then he also licks all over your water bottle. Doesn't matter if you win the game, that is a terrible experience. I once had a game as Twitch ADC and someone picked Akali support. She built straight damage, took all the CS, all the kills, roamed and took kills and CS from all the other lanes as well. No one on my team had fun except Akali, because we didn't get to play. We ended up winning, but it was easily the worst game I have ever played in and I would never want that Akali on my team ever again.

Troll for TrumpNov 15, 20166 votes

You're not obligated to buy wards. You're not obligated to support. You're not obligated to give the ADC all the cs.

It's not always Top, jg, mid, ADC, and support.

You can be "roam", you can be duo top. When blind pick has the 4 other rolls called, you can be "bot lane." Not support. Just "bot lane."

If selfish playstyles are what Riot doesn't want, then you should be Disco Heat. He has done things such as Roaming Janna or Singed before for videos and whatnot. Yet Riot has supported the guy.

warpenguin555Nov 15, 20161 votes

this wasn't blind pick. this was ranked. and roaming is ok, but getting 1 role and deciding to play another because you feel like it is what this guy was doing. If you get support, you are obligated to support

Troll for TrumpNov 15, 20164 votes

He wasn't DOING that role, but similar functions. Ivern supp does that too. Albiet slightly less extreme.

HazyCloud7Nov 14, 20164 votes

Great post. I have no idea why so many people are supporting a guy that essentially played double jungle despite getting assigned to support. Would people feel this way if a top laner or midlaner took smite and decided to double jungle instead of laning?

Widder88Nov 14, 20168 votes

Great post. I have no idea why so many people are supporting a guy that essentially played double jungle despite getting assigned to support. Would people feel this way if a top laner or midlaner took smite and decided to double jungle instead of laning?

He supported the Jungler instead of the Bot laner, where is the problem?

LordBrascaNov 16, 20162 votes

Then they should also add a rule that perfectly explains what is a support, toplaner, midlaner etc. what they should build (items and summoner spells too) and what they should do for the whole game :). Tbh it's not that much different from what Bard would do to hard carry a game... but i guess it's okay since Bard is primary role support and he is designed to roam xD,