@Riot "I wonder why its so hard to balance squishy melee dps types"

Critkeeper··2 votes·766 views

Seems weird that the most successful squishier melee dps champions always have low downtime dashes (yasuo, riven, fiora) or slow immunity (yi). Tryndamere doesn't have either, so he can't team fight at all and just split pushes all day.

Mordekaiser doesn't have either-- no wonder his rework was a failure. Udyr was pretty awful, and then he got a tiny tiny dash on his q and suddenly became extremely good.

Duh. Slows don't affect dashes-- and this game has too many slows for a squishy melee dps to actually function without some form of slow immunity.

#Slows ☐ Alistar ☐ Amumu ☐ Annie ☐ Blitzcrank ☐ Brand ☐ Elise ☐ Ezreal ☐ Galio ☐ Garen ☐ Jax ☐ Katarina ☐ Kennen ☐ Leblanc ☐ Lucian ☐ Malzahar ☐ MasterYi ☐ Mordekaiser ☐ Nidalee ☐ RekSai ☐ Renekton ☐ Riven ☐ Ryze ☐ Shyvana ☐ Sivir ☐ Taric ☐ Udyr ☐ Vayne ☐ Veigar ☐ Vi ☐ MonkeyKing ☐ Xayah ☐ Yasuo


☑ Aatrox E ☑ Ahri E ☑ Akali W ☑ Anivia Q R ☑ Ashe Passive W R ☑ AurelionSol R ☑ Azir Q ☑ Bard Passive Q ☑ Braum Q R ☑ Caitlyn E ☑ Camille W ☑ Cassiopeia W R ☑ Chogath Q ☑ Corki W ☑ Darius W E ☑ Diana E ☑ DrMundo Q ☑ Draven E ☑ Ekko Q W ☑ Evelynn R ☑ Fiddlesticks Q ☑ Fiora W E ☑ Fizz E R ☑ Gangplank E R ☑ Gnar Q E R ☑ Gragas Q ☑ Graves W ☑ Hecarim R ☑ Heimerdinger E R ☑ Illaoi E ☑ Irelia E ☑ Ivern E ☑ Janna W ☑ JarvanIV W ☑ Jayce Q ☑ Jhin E R ☑ Jinx W ☑ Kalista E ☑ Karma Q ☑ Karthus W ☑ Kassadin E ☑ Kayle Q ☑ Khazix Passive W ☑ Kindred E ☑ Kled Q ☑ KogMaw W ☑ LeeSin E ☑ Leona R ☑ Lissandra Q R ☑ Lulu Q W R ☑ Lux E ☑ Malphite Q ☑ Maokai Q W ☑ MissFortune E ☑ Morgana R ☑ Nami E R ☑ Nasus W ☑ Nautilus E ☑ Nocturne E ☑ Nunu E R ☑ Olaf Q ☑ Orianna W ☑ Pantheon R ☑ Poppy Q ☑ Quinn W E ☑ Rakan R ☑ Rammus Q R ☑ Rengar E ☑ Rumble E R ☑ Sejuani W R ☑ Shaco W E ☑ Shen Q ☑ Singed W ☑ Sion Q E ☑ Skarner E ☑ Sona E ☑ Soraka Q ☑ Swain Q ☑ Syndra W ☑ TahmKench Q ☑ Taliyah E ☑ Talon W ☑ Teemo R ☑ Thresh E R ☑ Tristana W ☑ Trundle Q E ☑ Tryndamere W ☑ TwistedFate W ☑ Twitch W ☑ Urgot W R ☑ Varus E ☑ Velkoz Q R ☑ Viktor W ☑ Vladimir E ☑ Volibear E ☑ Warwick E ☑ Xerath W ☑ XinZhao E ☑ Yorick E ☑ Zac Q R ☑ Zed E ☑ Ziggs E ☑ Zilean E ☑ Zyra E

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summoner 3

"Gee we can't seem to make squishy melee dps type champions without making them unbearable to play against"

No shit, any squishy dps oriented champion expected to function inside all those slows is either going to have to have: (o) enough effective range to stay outside of most of the slows (o) slow immunity (o) enough dashes to virtually have slow immunity (o) enough raw stats to make split pushing an always-win strategy

No duh balancing melee carries is hard, you painted yourself into a corner.

8 Comments

Big Lincoln1 votes

i keep saying there's too much cc in this game but all anyone cares about is mobility

one of them's way worse than the other

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Both are an issue, they are opposing sides of a power creep battle.

More mobility requires more cc to counter or stop, which requires more mobility to dodge / get through, which requires... etc.

Dreadlocks1 votes

The reason people don't say much about CC these days is because generally comps lack it xD

Critkeeper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rengar Revert,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J5x7Jocg,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-06-27T23:06:19.962+0000)

The reason people don't say much about CC these days is because generally comps lack it xD

well they sure as hell don't lack slows, since RIOT apparently likes to pile it onto everything

HaIlMonitor1 votes

I feel like that is the catch 22. There is so much mobility they make more cc, which increases the mobility. Right now I think there are 4 adc's for example with out some form of cc out of 26..... The squishy champs that the team is supposed to build around/protect has cc....

Snow Man Yi1 votes

the reason i main yi over every other melee carry(I do play a bit of trynd but no where near as yi) is because of the slow immunity, holy shit when I try to play trynd I notice how much nonhard cc there is, literally everything slows you

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Slows do affect dashes. Try using Yasuo's E with Nasus wither on you and be amazed at just how slowly you dash. Same goes for Fiora Q and nearly every other low CD dash.

Critkeeper1 votes

{quoted}

Slows do affect dashes. Try using Yasuo's E with Nasus wither on you and be amazed at just how slowly you dash. Same goes for Fiora Q and nearly every other low CD dash.

Many dashes completely ignore slows, but a few dashes take longer to complete the greater the slow-- among those, even they have a reasonable maximum cap on how long they will take to complete.

In other words, most dashes either completely ignore slows or they ignore any deleterious effect of the portion of any slow exceeding X%, generally with X being around 30%.

On the other hand, movement speed doesn't soft cap downwards until 220, which for the average melee carry (with roughly 400-420 movement speed), means any slow up to 45% will be fully effective against their movement speed.

Any slow that would reduce a champion's movement speed to less than 220 instead causes the champion's movement speed to be multiplied by 50% and added to 110, meaning that movement speed cannot be reduced below 110.

The summary of all this is that slows are much much more effective versus normal movement than dashes.

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