Always TRY to give gold to your carries

Mira Arya Enthe··41 votes·2,474 views

Just won a game against a Shaco who was super far ahead in the early game. But late game, we walked over team fights just be looking at them funny however. The sad thing was, their team was pretty good. The problem, was that their carries had no gold, while we had a gold fed and farmed Twitch, Talon and Ekko. What is important to note, is their Sivir had good farm, and in team fights she had good positioning. Leona also did a GREAT job peeling for her.

Sivir only had 4 kills however. Was this because Sivir was 'bad'? No, it's because she had 10 assists. Was Leona stealing her kills? No, Leona had 12 assists and only 4 kills. Hmm... Kat didn't take the kills, she had 9 assists. Yorick did not take them. Where did the kills go? Shaco had 15... that is where.

Honestly, their team performed admirably. But every time Shaco ganked for them, he would burn absolutely any summoner or spell to be sure he got the kill. This is absurd. You are an early game only jungle assassin, you fall off late game. You need your team fed.

I on the other hand was doing cruddy early game. But I helped my team secure kills and objectives. I went 2/3... with 26 assists. What is important to note, is almost all our kills went to twitch, with some extras for Talon. We needed Twitch fed to carry us. We needed Talon to have enough gold to assassinate Sivir. That is why we walked all over team fights. Even though the enemies had good organization, got inhibs first and overall most of them had excellent positioning. All the gold was on somebody who doesn't have nearly as much use in the late game.

Lesson? Try to give your carries gold when possible. I'm not saying risk kills escaping, or never farm your areas. But if your ADC can secure a kill, let them, if they need red buff and aren't dying too much, give it to them. If your mid takes wraiths, don't flip out and spam '?' ping on them. Most junglers, are better off letting those lanes get the gold, sometimes even top.

Just throwing it out there. Because I see too many people at the end of the games going "support most dmgs!?!?!?!?!" Or "Wow my ADC did nothing!" when they have 10 kills and the ADC has 10 assists. Cutting their kill gold in half. Carries are gold reliant, want them to do damage? Give them gold.

56 Comments

Malicious Metal22 votes

Mordekaiser Agreed, feed me kills!

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Always, I don't need them. I get gold faster in the jungle anyway ;P

Malicious Metal10 votes

What was the saying again? Shyvana comes out of the jungle and beats you to death with a bag of gold?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

unless she faces a Trundle and trundle cripples her and stops her ult with his pillar and steal her stats with ult and out duels her

oh wait ... trundle is the anti tank champ

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

I would never ult until Trundle burned his pillar. And I take Ignite if I am comfortable against their team and trundle. Flash otherwise. So if he engages with his ult. I can just run away, if he doesn't use pillar and saves it I will use flash as my escape. If he uses pillar I will use my ult afterwards to escape.

However, I still beat trundle if he doesn't have a large enough gold advantage. Usually something like item 3047 item 1419 item 3143 item 3075 item 3153 item 3046 If I am exclusively worried about him. But honestly, I am not. Usually I am too busy diving his back line. If he wants to chase me there, good, I took over the peel role for my tank so they can do other things. And I am still doing AoE damage.

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

heh, the other day I went mordekaiser jungle and absolutely destroyed CX

Hige5 votes

the problem is not that Shaco had kills, the problem is that the respective players weren't farming as much as they should, if your lane opponent died to Shaco, don't simply go back, farm as fast as possible and control the minions' position so that it goes in your favor as soon as you go back.

One kill is barely 20 CS... Gold comes from different sources in the game, learn how to farm it all.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

13-15 cs is a kill in terms of gold.... so you might go 0-0-2 in lane and the jungler gets kills you got the asst but if you use the death timers to cs and extended your gold lead and you are up by 47 cs but only 0-0-2 then you have a least two levels on them... the massive gold advantage from the cs and asst and that relates in to you having gold equal to 3 kills

the mindset has to change the game is 1 vs 1 and it isnt mortal combat, street fighter... people see the game as checkers...

when in theory is chess

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

however when you kill someone cs is gonna get lost and they are going to lose map pressure. i'd take a kill over that cs.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

but 13-15 cs is = to the gold / experience of a kill and if you get the asst with it... that is more gold and you grow the lead by them being dead and not getting experience or cs... it dont matter who gets the kill as long as the kill happens... hell if you dont get a kill but they are so low they have to back you can control the lane and just slowly build your lead suffocating them out

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

Enemy laners did farm. In fact Sivir had the most farm in the game. Still less gold than Twitch.

nice table5 votes

in theory this is a decent point, in reality not so much. carry your self in soloQ rather than relying on others to do it for you. adcs should be able to get fed enough on farm and if they cant do that its their fault not the junglers, junglers on the other hand give up farm while ganking and a jungler thats fed snowballs way harder than any adc especially sivir.

also shaco doesn't really fall off late game, his weakest point is 25-35 min and his strongest point is 40+ min.

notice me Sin pi4 votes

on the other side, there are people who refuse to give gold to supports 50min into game even when they already have full build + elixirs

RocketRelm3 votes

Gotta get enough gold to sell those boots for a second IE.

DarkRitual1 votes

As a support, I usually have full build before half my team, assuming we're not feeding in lane and nobody on my team is absurdly fed. Support items are cheap.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

there are times when supports need to play "support" to make up for the hole in ur full AD team comp

grug3 votes

I disagree entirely with this post and that game.

They didn't lose because shaco had all the money, they lost because katarina had 2.9 cs/m in a 40minute game

as it stands. whoever does the most damage or has the initiative to go for it should gets the kill, there is no preferential treatment for kills and there shouldnt be for low ELO.

giving gold to carries only works for high ELO where players know how to carry and do carry consistently

it be lìke that3 votes

decent point made long, but shaco just falls off, win by 30 minutes or lose the game. much like how it is with all jungle non master yi assassins right now. a lot more goes into this as well, it isnt just "give caitlyn all the gold" if cait has bad positioning and doesnt seem that great, no thanks ill take the gold.

this is kinda were the bias of the boards comes in, "HELP IM STUCK IN ELO HELL!" "git gud, learn to carry" now you are saying "give the gold away to teammates" personally i find the latter to lose more games than it wins.

example, 0-3- mid down 40 cs and just getting bullied nonstop wants my blue? no thanks, ill take it and make something happen.

EpikFeeder3 votes

All I read was : Enemy team picked Shaco....got ahead early...didnt close out game fast enough....got scaled on.....gg ez.

RocketRelm1 votes

Yeah, this is why I don't terribly enjoy shaco on my team. He's nice for early banks and that's fun, but he falls off a bloody cliff.

Athenes Lulu3 votes

Depends.

Some champs who aren't necessarily carries would benefit a lot from early kills since it would be much harder for them to do so afterwards (eg: supports and early sightstone rush), while some others can just farm up for items, scale, and easily take kills that they need.

Of course there has to be a clear distinction in between accidentally taking a few kills versus giving all of the kills to the same person, then to have his team completely destroyed because of that said carry is gone.

Saianna3 votes

The funniest part: Shaco falls off quite hard after a while, so it's like double fail.

Marshbouy3 votes

Another incredibly high quality post by Mira Arya Enthe.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

the best champ to have gold on late is a hyper carry like Twitch , Talon unless snowballed out of control late game isnt a great threat to worry about... gets blown up in team fights... he cant do anything but flank and try to blow up a squishy and then run.... hence why he fell out of favor in the role of assassins... partly why he is one of the updates...

shaco falls of late hard too so for him to be strong early and have a lead anything pass 25 mins he basically becomes a split push champ who runs and hides... and teams if they cant push that lead early end up playinga 4 vs 5

Weathered2 votes

Alright, I play jungle champions like Kha'Zix and Shaco. I completely understand where you are coming from. What I usually do is gank a lane and take the first kill, then if the lane is still going even and not snowballing, I will gank and make sure I just walk by the almost dead enemy and let them last hit it.

This way, I can get an initial gold leap to be oppressive early (important for my champ pool) and it usually allows the lanes to have an advantage. If they don't get that advantage from the enemy missing a wave, I have the power to help them further.

My rule is to have an even kill/assist for lanes, and only have more kills than assists when they come from the enemy jungler.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

omg a jungler who wants to let his laners win the game and realize its not his job to take all the kills but to feed his team and realize if he feeds the laners his team is stronger as a whole and most likely wins that way

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

its how i jungle too... but i play junglers that enable that better and im also a support main so its built into my mindset of setting up team for wins

maybe why when i do adc i have hard times in flat out carrying ...

FalconPawwwwnch2 votes

Ya I'll see people do the same shit when they're playing Lee Sin and they gank for me as Jax

It's like dude

BakedLotion2 votes

Shaco is supposed to take the kills. He needs them to stay relevant. If I'm ganking, I'm going to keep attacking until they're dead. I ain't risking shit for you to get an extra 100 gold.

Brain Errör 4041 votes

While I agree, I also disagree. A fed jungler, for me, is the scariest person in the game. He has the impact of affect all lanes and once a jungler gets rolling... well, there's no stopping him unless he royally screws up. As an adc/mid laner that plays a lot of scaling champs, as long as you knock my opponents out of lane, you've done well by me.

A well farmed carry is just as good as a carry getting kills. Also, learning to last hit kills is an important part of being a carry. If you can't get the kill, then that's on you.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

but it depends on the jungler... (champ) some are strong gankers and fall off late... Shaco some are tanky cc junglers who can do fine with out kills and be effective Amumu Malphite Maokai Nunu Nautilus Sejuani

some are truly feast of famine Evelynn Khazix XinZhao Pantheon Rengar

and then you junglers who do alot of things well

Nidalee RekSai Gragas Vi Trundle LeeSin

but if im a Amumu jungler i much rather have kills and gold on Riven top Viktor mid and Ezreal bot then me

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

I've noticed some champs such as AD shaco fall off late.. but ap.... c:

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

its harder to get alead and do damage as ap shaco... ad shaco is better in jungle and ganks are better early

everything you do build pick has a weakness

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

allthough my ganks aren't the greatest as ap, i have lots of map awareness and prevents laners from getting ganked via traps

Only Play Darius1 votes

Darius I don't care i'll dunk as I please

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Darius is the carry :^)

Speedphoenix1 votes

just what was the end game score (was it a ranked game?)

Niyumi1 votes

The lesson is: Don't feed the Twitch and Talon by overextending once you have a lead.

6Sfool1 votes

Just feed your carries? I can't say I'm an expert, but if everyone else is gold-starved then they aren't helping the adc much. I would clarify to say feed the teammates who are crucial in teamfights. If you're the only peel tank in a team of immobile squishies, you had better get a kill or two. Otherwise, you will instantly be deleted and your teammates will be vulnerable. As Braum, If I get an early kill for whatever reason, I have a hell of a lot easier time going aggressive and handing more kills to the carries.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Good points.

Does this mean I can steal kills as midlane Brand? :D

HazyCloud71 votes

For that game in particular the katarina was 2/11 with like ~110 cs and the Yorick literally had more deaths than kills/assists. Every member of your team was useful though.

I agree with the overall point you're trying to make, for the most part. It's a really good feeling to pull off a successful gank for a hyper carry and get them the kill., or playing with junglers that make a concerted effort to get their carries the kill.

wiggywonka1 votes

no i take all the kills the end

iamthegoatofwar1 votes

...a shaco that fed should have just split push mid game since it sounds like he was not duelable. This sounds more like decision making failure on their teams part rather than shaco being a problem because he took kills.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Nope.

Too many times have kills slipped away because "the carry needs it" and that's way more frustrating than dealing with a carry acting like a big baby that he doesn't get the biggest KDA in the game.

Farm gives plenty of gold same with assists.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

I only play carries, so I do try to give the gold to my carries.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

What if my carry is a monkey and I need to do the carrying instead?

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

Then predict the future and don't gank them. :B

Verdade1 votes

Velkoz support: But what if im the carry?

PROJECT Katarìna1 votes

If your fed and your team isn't, splitting is a good way to get easy doubles unless they send the whole enemy team at you in that case bush wookie the first 1 or 2 then run away.

ROYALR3IGN1 votes

See heres the thing though. If it's solo q, and you're a jg, you should be the one to secure kills. You don't know how your team is going to perform with that lead , so you should probably take it youself and trust yourself to carry. Some jgs will give up that kill and get their carries fed, but I completely understand if they come to gank me, and take a kill. They don't know me, or how I'll perform. They don't know if I'm a top main whose stuck playing adc because hurr durr autofill, or I could be one trick adc main, they don't know which and should trust themselves in that situation.

Also, its not as big a deal if the jg takes a kill. They came away from their own farm to gank you, and should probably get that extra bit of gold to increase their pressure and kill more around the map or outlevel the enemy jg and use the smite advantage to take objectives, or counter jg. Just because you don't get the full amount of gold for landing a kill, it doesn't mean you can't do anything. Enemy's dead! Push to get that free cs up to tower, for exp advantage, and ROAM, or take tower! Both are really good, and grants you extra gold pressure. Also if you're worth a damn in your lane you should get gold and exp from the assist. Translating a lead in not just for them, but a powerful tool for every lane, not just your own.
That being said, in this case, the enemy team may have had solid mechanics, but their marco play was lackluster. If Shaco has 15 kills and his team isn't feeding, they should be pressing their gold lead into other advantages; to take out towers, dragons, heralds, barons, enemy buffs, etc. NOT just chasing around kills until late game.

Sorry for the rant I'm just so tired of seeing these omg jg keeps taking kills, I'm utterly useless threads for a long time now. You're not useless. Even if the enemy is ahead, its all about what you do when you get small windows of opportunity to turn the game around. Or at least keep the game as close as possible.

Edit: Yes in the best case scenario, the jg should give kill gold to their carries. It is the most optimal use of the gold lead. This is why the professionals leave kills to the carries. In the circumstances that you trust your carries to actually carry the game, yes you should do that. But if you're playing ranked alone, its more practical for you to keep the gold lead for yourself and do something with that lead.

Zerenza1 votes

Yeah i just lost a game where i was playing sivir(needs gold for essence reaver) and i had a brand support or took 3 early kills from me, that's 900 gold which is equivalent to 45 CS. That's a lot of gold that he just took from an ADC that really needs gold. Eventually i got out scaled because i had 8 assists and only 3 kills so i wasn't getting as strong as the other carry was, even if we didn't feed at all it still put me behind.

More from Gameplay

More by Mira Arya Enthe