Vi's Changes and Why they miss the mark.

ModCaptainMårvelous··14 votes·1,412 views

Hey Gameplay.

In case you didn't see the PBE notes, Vi got some changes on the PBE:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-d1Vkhy0GDRE/WsQoqXUYPoI/AAAAAAAA8vo/C6poT-W5KLskTvDjmXJXUVYLa7-r24DEACLcBGAs/s1600/DZ5ruCrUQAAE9iW.jpg

Riot August's goal for this was to give Vi a more versatile early game, buff her top lane and leave her jungling at a net neutral. With all do respect, this does nothing for Vi. I play a ton of Vi (she's my highest mastery champ) and these changes are a net zero: Vi is still maxing Q because it's her only way in so the CD buff doesn't really change all that much. The change to Vi's W is pretty crippling especially for a jungler and her E changes are....eh. She's not exactly hurting for mana unless you're spamming endlessly.

But all of this isn't a huge deal. Rather, it skips over Vi's biggest problems.

1.) Vi is extremely one dimensional.

If you miss Q, you're done. You lose a chunk of your damage and your first W (plus a free follow-up) hit. This is massive for Vi but also makes playing against her binary. Did you hit Q? Awesome! Keep going! Miss it? Get out you've fucked everything up oh no oh god oh man.

2.) Vi pales compared to other divers.

Vi has one clear defensive ability (Not counting "But she can CC and dodge things!", that's not the defensive ability I'm referring to) in her kit: Her blast shield. 10% of her maximum HP as a shield for 3 seconds every 16-8 seconds that isn't triggered by her W.

In comparison:

Camille's shield triggers on any basic attack on champions. 20% of her maximum HP that's exclusively physical or magical. (16/13/10) Xin Zhao has a complete ranged ignore on his ult as well as a knock-back that has a 3 second timer but can extend. (Ult cooldown, obv.)

"Well gee why are you comparing apples or oran-"

So here's the other thing: Despite both these champions having point/click sticking power, they also have tools to heal as well as stick beyond just their initial dash in. Xin can follow up with W as well as heal on autos. Camille can chase with W as well as gain a heal. These champions, despite having similar initiation abilities, offer more ways to play against an enemy beyond the binary "Don't get clicked" choice as well as having some tools to survive longer. And this isn't even getting into Irelia's rework which is franky stupendous.

Vi does not have these tools. Her one defensive ability is reliant on hitting abilities and frankly it's a pitiful shield compared to some of the defensive options her fellow divers get.

#An Alternative: Make W something.

If you want to make Vi more viable and give her some additional tools to be "played", she can't be as binary. First would be moving her W to her passive. It's her first skill and (frankly) it's also the level 1 people take to jungle....whiiiiiiiiiich doesn't proc her passive because top lane Vi which is kind of skill but it's not what we're discussing. In place of W (Now her passive that scales linearly through the game) would be a new W. Not a perfect example but an idea of what it could be.

W: Feint Counter Vi pretends to lower her guard for a brief moment (1-ish seconds), standing still and making an obvious gesture (Lowering her arms, a short animation to let you know she's in a counter state). The next auto attack during this time that hits Vi is negated, causing Vi to strike the enemy who attacked her and slowing them.

Hell, if you want you could even slap on blast shield to this. But why would I propose this change to Vi's kit? Well....

#1.) Fits her fist-fighter/Boxer persona.

Dodge, weave, bob, counter and feints. All tools in a boxer's arsenal. Vi, who seems well versed in scraps and fist-fights, should have no trouble faking out her opponant for a sneaky strike. It also gives Vi more of a boxer persona which isn't wholly represented in her kit.

#2.) Gives Vi a defensive ability that can be played around.

Much like Irelia or Fiora, counters give people a chance to either commit to an attack and lose an ability or play around it and not fall for the counter. Vi's would be the same, save that it's her secondary sticking power. Vi just missed Q. Do you instantly attack her or do you pause for one second because you know she's going to use W? Do you hit Vi when she's low so she's forced to attack you and move closer or do you ignore it in fear of the damage? Etc. There's so much more to it.

#3.) Sacrifice nothing, add depth.

Most of all, nothing of Vi's original kit is lost her. Sure, one could argue she's more powerful now because she has an entire new ability. However to get this ability, her W is now her passive. She maxes it last, granted, but linear scaling over the course of the game is both a blessing and a curse. Vi doesn't lose what makes her Vi for this change. It gives her a new tool and (much like Varus on the PBE) it enhances her playstyle in a way that while not original, tides her over in terms of being fun to play and having a learning curve.

All that said, feel free to comment and leave your own ideas, interpetations and more about Vi's changes on the PBE, if they're good/not good and what Vi needs to be better, if anything.

14 Comments

kaironen1 votes

Vi's issue has always been her binary kit. She either goes in and hits her q while also killing you, Or she just falls flat after missing it. Two ways to probably fix this are either to buff her passive to make her survivability stronger or to make her have an outplay potential like you suggested with the feint in boxing. The first option could have a risk to it in making her too much of a stat check champion. She could have the same issue that rhaast (kayne) currently has where if he's behind with rhaast, he isn't an issue, but once he gets ahead he just never dies and 1v5s. The second option would allow her to have good outplay options and help to keep her in the fight. The only issue is how it could make that skill look very similar to fiora's w and new irelia's w. I personally liked playing vi when I was able to put out good sustain dps as a melee while also being slightly tanky. Then again, i'm not a vi player, I used to play her like 2 seasons ago.

CrisisEchoes1 votes

vi should never be meta, as an adc main i can confirm not fun at all.

ModCaptainMårvelous5 votes

Well, that's part of her problem:

When she's strong, she auto-clicks the ADC and beats them down. When she's weak, she....doesn't.

Adding some counterplay to her kit and some less binary aspects will help with this.

CrisisEchoes1 votes

Perhaps... riot should just do a full identity rework on her. Her ults never gonna be balanced in its current state.

Kaìju2 votes

As an ADC main, you're wrong. Vi diving me is fine because that's her job, just like it's my supports job to get her off me. I can be as salty as I want that she can nuke me down in one rotation but if it takes anyone on my team longer than her rotation to realize I need help then I lost that regardless. You wanting to not be threatened as an ADC is why people hate us.

Teridax681 votes

What about just having her punches against champions lower her Blast Shield cooldown? Denting Blows is a fun part of her kit that I think is worth keeping, as it creates a good flow to her ability and attack usage, and I feel having a feint move might not actually be all that appropriate for Vi, who's this very brutish, offensive character who exclusively focuses on punching her opponents down, rather than actually boxing them. Encouraging Vi to commit harder to fights and punch more in order to constantly shield herself is gameplay I think that could fit her (she already goes in hard), and could be a relatively simple buff that could add a lot more gameplay and nuance to her kit (she'd have to choose more often whether to flee or to go all-in and bank on her shield).

130x1 votes

Riots goal is to ruin EVERY champion. Vi doesnt need a nerf and is all sbout her early game. I quit caring with "runes reforged" release. Vi is not strong at all anyway.

Zaghyr1 votes

This could also benefit her top lane. By having or Blast Shield, or a new ability, on her W, she can use shield/ability whenever she wants instead of procing it by accident with your E. By Having Denting Blows as your passive, you could also start any ability and have great dueling power at level 1.

Edit: Thinking on the changes you proposed, I thought of a few that could help.

Passive: Denting Blows Same as current NEW EFFECT: When all Denting Blows stacks are consumed, Blast Shield's cooldown in reduced.

-basically the same as current W, but the numbers will be changed to scale more appropriately as a passive throughout the game. Has a new effect that gives Vi more defensive power in extended trades in case she can't kill the backline; is also usefull while dueling in general.

W: Blast Shield After a 0.5 second delay, Vi gains a shield scaling with her maximum health for 3 seconds. If Blast Shield is active when Assault and Battery is used, the shield duration is extended by 2 seconds. After the shield breaks, or the duration ends, Vi gains a charge of Excessive Force (if you don't have 2 already) and it is empowered to slow all enemies hit for a few seconds.

-current passive is now he W, the delay is more for counterplay, the exnteded duration is so you can benefit from the shield while your ult is active without losing the shield as soon as the ability ends, and the extra Excessive Force charge and slow empowerment will let her stick to her dive targets and dueling targets a little better.

Ralanr1 votes

I like this idea. Vi doesn’t really feel like much of a boxer or a brawler, focusing more on hit and run tactics over and over with her Q. It makes her rather annoying for me to play as I want to stay in the fight to go all “Ora Ora Ora” on them.

Acheron161 votes

Her problem is that she has stupid-proof engage, yet nothing else to do once she has engaged. Her kit, by design, encourages her to unload as much damage as possible, which coupled with her ease of target- accessibility has led to the continuous nerfs to her kit over the years.

Her W needs to have a bigger part of her power budget, and I argue it would be better if her W reduced the CD on her passive, in order to encourage her to actually stick around once she's in the fray.

An Draoi1 votes

how would your suggested W work against ranged attacks?

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

Leap strike to them.

Prevents it from being useless and also gives her sticking power against ranged.

An Draoi1 votes

{quoted}

Leap strike to them.

Prevents it from being useless and also gives her sticking power against ranged.

I like it

C9 Squeeky 1 votes

Why does her passive shield have a CD? Should it not be reset every time Vi uses an ability? Or using an ability reduces the CD by 1 second maybe?

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