AP Junglers in Extremely Bad Place (Jungle Item Rundown)

metafoxx·11/15/2015, 10:39:07 AM·7 votes·2,032 views

While the jungle changes this preseason aren't perfect, they mostly do point in the right direction and some adjustments should be great for making the jungle a more diverse place. HOWEVER, with every preseason there is unavoidably a bunch of stuff that just doesn't work, and the jungle is where the majority of these are taking place this season, IMO. Above all, AP junglers have simply been all-but deleted from the game right now. And here's why:

  1. Runeglaive is terrible. In what I can only call a massive display of carelessness by riot, the runeglaive item is now basically an absolute joke. It costs 400 more gold, yet it gives you LESS AP than it did before. I understand that the idea of the cost increase on the Jungle items was to accommodate for the considerable jungle power they now have (mana regen, lifesteal, on-hit, health steal, possible sightstone upgrade). But the thing about runeglaive is that it was specifically made to fix the problems that most ap junglers have, so that they could more easily keep up with other junglers. Many ap junglers struggle with their clearing and mana issues, and these problems aren't fixed until they FINISH runeglaive. This not only takes longer because it costs more, but the item also gives them LESS power when they finally get it (2700 gold for 40 AP? Really? Is that a joke?). On top of that, the stats a completed runeglaive gives now are extremely redundant. It gives you 3 forms of mana fixing now: Flat mana, mana regen and the restore effect. Plus blue buff is also a thing. The restore effect alone was enough to fix 90% of the mana problems an AP jungler might have. Now AP junglers are paying an absurd amount of money for overcompensating a stat they don't need extra fixing in. The mana regen on runeglaive could be completely removed or the restore effect heavily reduced, and AP junglers would GLADLY trade that for having 60-70 ap on the item instead of 3 redundant mana fixers when 2 was plenty before.

  2. AP builds are overpriced. The problems with Runeglaive itself are bad enough, but combo that with almost all the major AP items now costing more gold, and AP junglers are put so far behind the build curve that they flat out cannot keep up. There is simply no way you can keep up in gold value on a jungler's budget on item-reliant mages when every single item in your build costs 300 more gold than the same tier items in everyone else's build for no apparant reason. And remember you only get to start building these important items after you've dumped a ton of money into the low-return hole that is runeglaive.

  3. The new masteries aren't good for them. With the way the new mastery system works, many of the tools available to help otherwise weak junglers get through their first few clears are gone. The one that lets you deal extra damage to monsters only works on autoattacks and single target spells, favoring right-click characters, and the one that gave you jungle-thornmail is gone completely, which was a mastery that significantly helped any jungler improve their clears. Beyond that, the tough skin mastery, which makes you take less damage from monsters and is extremely important to have on characters with lower defenses and less sustain and less efficient early clears (you know, like basically all AP characters), while available, requires you to sacrifice your ability to go further down the damage related trees, virtually forcing you to give up a disproportionate amount of power when fighting players just so that you can get through your first few clears without getting thrashed by the jungle monsters the whole time (which of course makes it harder to gank and get objectives because you're always low HP).

  4. Items meant to help them suck. The jungle talisman alone, even on characters it's supposed to be good for, pales in comparison to the machete the vast majority of the time. The 20 HP steal over 5 seconds is laughable compared to 20 damage every AA and 8% lifesteal. Even on mages the machate is almost always better overall to start with. Talisman just doesn't cut it as a starting item. And the jungle flask....is a well-meaning but redundant waste of money. By the time you get your 2nd tier jungle item with it's ton of mana regen, hp steal, on hit and lifesteal, any character who could even consider jungling should be able to make it though the jungle without relying on the flask to stay decent (again, even MORE redundant mana fixing). Plus the flask costs 400 gold, gives gradual sustain that only matters over numerous camp clears, and gives 0 combat stats whatsoever. It's just another big fat gold dump just to scrape through the jungle that does nothing for you when it's time to actually gank or teamfight or contest objectives. Any character who can viably jungle shouldn't need the jungle flask, and dumping 400 gold on it just puts you farther behind the item curve when AP junglers are already painfully dragging behind everyone else.

TL:DR - Take mana off runeglaive and give it more power, make AP items cheaper again, buff hunter's talisman. Example: Runeglaive - Mana regen removed, AP increased to 65, lifesteal vs monsters changed to spellvamp. Talisman - dealing ability damage steals 30 hp over 2 seconds (up from 20 over 5), this effect is doubled for single target spells. AP items - make them cheaper again.....jesus.... Jungle Flask - Heals more hp and no mana, fewer max charges but still refills for killing monsters, sells for almost it's full cost.

Anyway, I'm sure Riot will do something for AP junglers in the coming preseason-un-screw-up-patches, but currently while AP characters have fallen behind, AP junglers have been all but deleted, and this needs to be fixed sooner than later.

35 Comments

swiftsnipe11/15/2015, 11:14:50 AM2 votes

i don't fully agree. The talisman, machete combo give you plenty of sustain. The speed on your jungle clear came from sheen which is cheaper than it used to be. Most ap junglers are tanks. they dont build runeglaive. Teh ap junglers that do like elise and diana dont need help with their clears or damage.

The only ap caster that has any business in the jungle is fiddlestick - Who doesnt need the sheen but also doesn't need the sustain.

which ap junglers are in a bad spot? or at least worse than they used to be?

metafoxx11/15/2015, 11:00:45 PM1 votes

Bump.

Troy24262111/15/2015, 11:04:09 PM1 votes

First clear I almost always get my first blue, which buys me enough mana to clear enough gold to buy the components that solve the mana issues, as you've already said, but there's one other thing I think needs to be brought up.

What about non-AA AP junglers? Fiddlesticks gives precisely zero fucks about Runeglaive.

Stellafreyja11/16/2015, 5:03:48 AM1 votes

Have you seen Nidalee's winrate on Champion.gg? Absolutely disheartening...

Lafouboy11/16/2015, 7:33:05 AM1 votes

Don't buy jungle items on junglers anymore. It is gold inefficient as fuck. AP junglers should buy a hunter's potion and then go straight into their build.

There is literally no reason to buy the upgraded jungle items anymore (unless you really need Sated Devourer on your champ). I made a thread on it; check it out.

ZephyrDrake11/16/2015, 9:58:51 AM1 votes

just AP junglers? try EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN AP CHAMPION! unless you are one of the few gifted that can use the godawful AP masteries you are screwed as an AP champion

peachplumpear11/16/2015, 11:55:40 AM1 votes

Talisman - dealing ability damage steals 30 hp over 2 seconds (up from 20 over 5), this effect is doubled for single target spells.

Wtf is this OP piece of crap? Do you realize how OP this makes Amumu, Sejuani, Diana, and Cho'Gath in the jungle? They will heal for 60 HP PER SECOND against Raptors.

Craft Zeppelin11/15/2015, 10:46:48 AM1 votes

yeah the price increase and meta change made a hefty blow on other jungle builds as well. Like how many people are still stacking devourer although the game ends around 15 mins and it costs more. compeletly out of logic.

Dominick Destine12/3/2015, 12:28:47 AM1 votes

As an Evelynn main, I find Runeglaive to be fine.

I am Diamond level and can vouch that almost all AP jungles do fine with Runeglaive (Fid potentially only exception)