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Ahri's changes are embarassing.

metafoxx·1/17/2015, 7:46:02 AM·2 votes·1,125 views

DFG is getting removed. Ahri and Veigar at least are supposed to be compensated for the major loss. As much as I hate the loss dfg and as many other ways there are to fix the problems it creates without completely deleting it, if the compensations are sufficient I can make do. The ahri changes are now on the pbe. They look like this:

 Orb of Deception
    New Effect: Now grants bonus Movement Speed while the orb is in flight. 
 Fox-Fire
    Base damage per flame increased to 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 160 from 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140. 
 Charm
    Damage increased to 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 200 (+ 50% AP) from 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+ 35% AP).
    No longer amplifies magic damage and Orb of Deception.png Orb of Deception's true damage.

THIS is ahri's "compensation"? Are you for f**king real? Is this an early april fools joke? Remind me again that these people in the balance department are getting PAID MONEY to do this as A JOB. I would be embarassed to even submit something so stupid to my boss.

Look up the word "COMPENSATION". It does not mean "to make up for taking something away, you get MORE TAKEN AWAY". Is riot's balance team so incompetent they don't even know the meaning of the words they use?

Your COMPENSATION for the COMPLETE LOSS OF A MAJOR CORE DAMAGE ITEM equals a grand total of:

  1. A small amount of mobility

  2. A microbial increase in the base damage (not ratio) of the skill you max 2nd, as in "so small you literally can't tell the difference".

  3. A tiny increase in the damage of the skill you max LAST.

  4. A GIANT LOSS IN THE FUNCTIONALITY, DAMAGE AND UNIQUENESS OF HER KIT.

This incompetent horse*t literally robs her full combo of around a THIRD of it's damage. You LITERALLY could nerf her LESS by completely deleting ONE OF HER ABILITIES. This is like robbing you of your car and leaving you one rollerskate in "compensation". I realize this was just put on the beta and there is almost no way these well be the exact changes that actually go though, but it is nothing short of apalling that people PAID TO DO THIS FOR A LIVING that have been working on this game for some 5 years now would be downright STUPID enough to even suggest this. I would be literally ashamed to hand something with that little effort or caring to the people responsible for putting it into the game. You have a dream job, riot crew, at least have the fking decency to TRY to do it well.

"Yeah, around 130 extra damage from full combo @500 AP and a little bit of move speed for 1-2 seconds will COMPENSATE for %15 of their max hp, %10 CDR and a +40% total damage increase". Clean out your desk. Just because your job is fun doesn't mean it's okay to treat it like a joke. Get me someone in here who can pass 4th grade math and gives a damn. Absolutey disgusting.

22 Comments

Sailor Mint1/17/2015, 7:50:27 AM4 votes

The movement speed buff on Q is probably the most fun Ahri change in years. Try it yourself before hating on it.

Instead of finalizing Ahri into the role of yet another 100-0 assassin, I'm glad someone at Riot decided to experiment with something different. something closer to her original roots.

Rilasha1/17/2015, 9:39:00 AM3 votes

Let's see about these changes... Q movespeed buff is an interesting concept, since it can allow you to run away faster if you're being chased or to catch up to them quickly when using it. It also allows greater control over the true damage portion of the skill since you can reposition so it can do damage. (Though I actually go for max range Qs all day so it doesn't affect me as much.) If you're running away, you can really get away with E's slow and Q's movespeed.

W damage increase is all good and all, but it's still less than when each foxfire did 50% damage per extra fire to a single target if they got hit more than one.

E damage is a weak response to 20% damage amplification for all other skills, even if it's 20 whole damage at rank 5 and a +15% extra AP bonus. It's a change that doesn't really stack up much. I think the ambition is to give more damage to E so you need to land a combo to do well but it reduces damage by a giant amount.

I believe this is a step for eradication of Assassin play style Ahri, however, with these current figures I wouldn't think that it would help Poke Mage Ahri a lot since she's got quite long base cooldowns per rotation for a mage of average range in her poke skills. (12 for E, 7 for Q, so spam that CDR)

Personally, I've always maxed E second for more CC duration when playing her, leading me to set up a lot of kills for my team. I think my own playstyle is really unfazed by this change, since I'm a cautious player. The problem is, with this I'd be able to make zero 1v1 plays at all with this amount of damage. With removal of DFG and this change, Ahri is only going to be in a spot to assist the team in killing and not take as many kills herself unless she's like a garbageman and cleans up all the kills at the end of a teamfight.

In essence, she's going to be a LOT weaker 1v1 and will be only used for waveclear/teamfighting prowess where the other team chases you to no results while your team kills them. Charm's a great catch tool to initiate teamfights and this would be her main point for picking her instead of the old 100-0 instagib assassin play.

BeatzBoyFTW1/17/2015, 8:40:31 AM2 votes

**A late game charming assassin getting nerfs **according to your state of opinion, and you're mad about it becaaaaaaaause.....?

Oh wait, you're an Ahri main. oh well, bummer.

Daviepants1/17/2015, 8:47:02 AM1 votes

Okay well, first off this is all in the PBE still, so just because these changes are being made does NOT mean all of them will hit the live server. Second, if you actually read the post on Surrender@20 that addressed DFG & the "compensation," you would've known that just because Scarizard used that term does NOT mean that the "compensation" in changing champion skills is going to be straight damage to match the %dmg received from DFG. Lastly, Foxfire at max level will have a base damage of 170 from 140, not 160.

I will however say that if they are removing the amp damage on Charm, they should increase the base damage on Orb by a bit more IN ADDITION to the movement speed buff. But the movement speed is by no means "minimal"...that movement speed is going to help her counter so many champs that use AoE spells without the need of rushing tier 1 boots as a potential first item (i.e. Orianna, Syndra, Cass, etc).

Done251/17/2015, 8:27:37 AM1 votes

I'm actually not all that bothered by the loss of damage amp from her E. It just means that she would chuck you harder than she already was about to while you were CCed.

Hopefully they increase the damage of her Q+W a bit more and offload some of the power from her E. Does anyone know the numbers for the speed boost while Q is out? It sounds interesting.

Hasztalan21/17/2015, 9:43:02 AM1 votes

She'd need more nerfs so be happy they at least try to do something about her.

metafoxx1/17/2015, 12:51:02 PM1 votes

Again, I understand that these were just put on the beta, there is an extremely high chance they will be changed, but these changes are so misguided it's painful to even read them.

The idea behind the entire removal of DFG (a nearsighted community-screwing decision that I strongly disagree with), is that DFG gives too much of a power spike. So much that characters can use DFG + 2 skills to kill someone then still have 2 skills left for other stuff, and on certain high burst champs makes their burst off the charts to an unhealthy level. Because DFG is such a strong option, it automatically becomes the "best" choice for any character good at using it, crowding out other options and playstyles for lots of single-target supernukes all day.

Again, this could be EASILY FIXED by simply adjusting the item or if you remove it, give us a new item in it's place that does something vaguely similar. SO MANY MOBAS have a DFG item in them, why is LoL, the most popular and biggest one of them all with the most money and most employees, not allowed to have one all of the sudden after 5 years of it existing? You could change it to do flat damage based on level/upgrade (like Dota), or make your next 1 ability do bonus damage (like dawngate), or several other options.

The issue with Ahri's compensation, above all with the removal of damage amp on her E, is that this isn't just a nerf to her single target insta-nuke playstyle that makes other builds viable now, it goes way too far and takes away so much damage that it simply removes her ability to be an assassin at all. Her full combo now with DFG compared to these "compensations" totals a loss of 28% of her damage NOT COUNTING THE DFG 15% HIT, easily taking the damage nerf into 35-40% range. This isn't like trying to assassinate without DFG, it's like trying to assassinate without DFG or using your Q AT ALL.

Your goal to make Ahri more "versatile" literally involves REMOVING her ability to competently do a job and forcing players into lackluster versions of other jobs that many characters can do better for less skill required. Ultimately Ahri SHOULD be best at being an assassin, her kit strongly supports that, while having decent options in aoe and poke. (requiring to land a cc skillshot to drop full combo on single target? Ok-but-not-great aoe damage otherwise? Clearly riot thinks that spells support). Her W and R aoe damage is situational, can only hit up to 3 targets, requires you to be in a relatively risky close position, and does unimpressive little damage when not focused on one target. Her Q does good damage, but in a line, and requires 2 hits, and lines are much less reliable than circular aoe. If you want a poke/zone mage, Lux/Xerath/Ziggs/Velkoz/Nid/Ori/TF/AP Kog all trump her in spades. If you want AOE mage, Kennen/Annie/Morg/Ori/Ziggs/Kat/Cass/Fid all do way more with more cc for less skill and less risk. If these changes were to go through, Ahri would be left doing a mediocre at best performance at 3 jobs instead of being actually good at anything. Tell me when you pick a champ for a role that you really want to pick the one that "isnt strong at any job" and "makes me know at all points of the game I am contributing less than my teammates even when playing well".

There are so many ways she could be changed to make up for losing dfg. The move speed on Q isn't a bad idea, but at the cost of LITERALLY 40% of your damage output? Shameful. The "buffs" to W and E damage are microscopic, let me make it clear that with these changes your FULL COMBO at LV18 is gaining ~130 TOTAL DAMAGE AT 500 ABILITY POWER. And that is supposed to "compensate" (god i hate that word now, thanks riot) for losing 3 major damage functions, 2 of which you gained early and 1 you had the entire game. Again. Embarrassing.

Better options:

Increase charm damage amp from 20% to 30% plus a slight AP ratio buff on ult. The results of this?

  1. Still noticeably less damage than with DFG.
  2. Still strong assassination potential with full combo, but needs full combo to kill a target. (cannot kill with 2 skills and save 2 for later, also will probably need all 3 ult shots, allowing time for counterplay even with a landed charm)
  3. Increased dependency on landing charm for kills (cannot miss charm but use DFG instead to make up for it).
  4. Less instant delete of 1 target but increased damage over extended teamfights with multiple successful charms.
  5. Improved laning power with stronger trades, but only IF you can land chams. This + her Q farming can make her playstyle very aggressive to abuse this new lane power, but at the cost of making yourself very gankable, and if you use ult to escape a gank, your kill power goes down since some of the power increase to make up for DFG is locked in your ult.

There. That was ONE way to compensate her, that I thought of in about 30 seconds, and makes several times more sense than what Riots balance team did, while making her much more of the "healthy" assassin they want so badly. Hire me, Riot. I don't claim to be a genius but I'll sure as hell do better than whoever you left in charge today.

Abyssphere1/17/2015, 4:58:58 PM1 votes

I feel like the main thing she needs in addition to these changes is some shorter cooldowns. It's not easy to get 40% CDR on a mage, much less so now that the 10% CDR from DFG is gone. Assuming they won't be introducing another 120 AP item with CDR, she could use her Q scaling down to 5 seconds and Charm scaling down to 10.

Ch0c0lateJesus1/17/2015, 8:31:18 AM1 votes

The problem with compensating for an item like dfg is that even though lots of people build it on those champs, not everyone does, and not everyone 'can' if they are shut down hard.

If I shit on Leblanc in lane, and she gets way behind, she's not getting that dfg for a while, but if you buff her to "compensate" she's getting stats to replace an item she wasnt going to have.

So basically its a straight buff, not "compensation" for anything.

Centuros1/17/2015, 5:07:23 PM1 votes

You ARE going to build something in the former DFG slot though, which has the potential to AT LEAST get you the 10% CDR.