Remove position ranks. It's 10 times worse.

chipndip1·Feb 3, 2019·87 votes·18,432 views

People can just blatantly grief games that aren't on main role because they don't care about those games with these stupid position ranks. Sure the outcry isn't as bad as dynamic queue, but this shit isn't fun and it's actually worse for competitive integrity than DQ was. People are gaming the system by just laning in different lanes to lose less lp, duo'ing with people in ways that they get significantly easier games with normal lp gains, and generally not trying as hard when they aren't on main role. Position ranks are a blight on solo queue. Please remove this already.

84 Comments

MorgManBasherFeb 3, 201937 votes

It's just something that sounds good on paper, but it's actually awful.

GlaricionFeb 4, 20192 votes

I so hope you're wrong, and that it is just further into beta than Rito thought.

I was so looking forward to learning new roles and being able to have a tangible way of measuring my progress.

HeirofGokuFeb 4, 20193 votes

Like communism [slayer-jinx-wink]

NevrankroatonFeb 4, 20195 votes

It isn't "awful", it is more like the playerbase is shit because nobody is willing to try another role or will speak some BS like "I can't play this role" like learning one champion in another role is impossible.

Then people say "Autofill is the true problem" and I don't think anyone want to understand riot position.

3 minut queu --> Champ select and ban phase, it is already a lot of time for a game that can go between 15 min and 30/35 min. You remove autofill, it won't be just "5 minuts", it would be between 7 and 10 minuts for an elo like Platinum. And if someone dodge...

And that is not accounting the time of the day where there is less players. Then if we go to high elo/very high elo, the queu time would 30/45 minuts and if you think it is a myth, I invite you to talk to any D1+ players about their queu time.

I think the system is good but it is just way too abusable and there isn't any real method to prevent this. I am not saying it should stay if it doesn't work but it isn't "awful".

YennFeb 4, 20195 votes

{quoted}

It isn't "awful", it is more like the playerbase is shit because nobody is willing to try another role or will speak some BS like "I can't play this role" like learning one champion in another role is impossible.

Then people say "Autofill is the true problem" and I don't think anyone want to understand riot position.

3 minut queu --> Champ select and ban phase, it is already a lot of time for a game that can go between 15 min and 30/35 min. You remove autofill, it won't be just "5 minuts", it would be between 7 and 10 minuts for an elo like Platinum. And if someone dodge...

And that is not accounting the time of the day where there is less players. Then if we go to high elo/very high elo, the queu time would 30/45 minuts and if you think it is a myth, I invite you to talk to any D1+ players about their queu time.

I think the system is good but it is just way too abusable and there isn't any real method to prevent this. I am not saying it should stay if it doesn't work but it isn't "awful".

I've literally been D1 and queue times were not that bad.

Also, the auto-fill implementation itself is completely broken. We have no idea what queue times would be without it, but Riot's estimates are completely wrong because the implementation is wrong. I've had cases where I was duo queued, and myself and the duo were both auto-filled into each others' roles.

tight bussyFeb 8, 20191 votes

It's not autofill thats the problem, playing your off role is bound to happen at some point. With the old system, even when I would get my very worst role, I was still forced to try as hard as I could to win, because it would count as a loss for me and I would lose LP. Now, when I get an off role, or auto filled, the games don't matter. Worst case scenario I lose 4 LP if I lose, and only gain that amount if I win...

Nobody is asking auto fill to be removed, its the only way you can queue without waiting hours for a game.

koshkyraFeb 3, 201915 votes

I had a toplaner say “this isnt my main role i dont care if we win” and threaten to go AP sion when i wouldn’t give him my role. All this new system does is promote toxicity.

øHaruøFeb 3, 201912 votes

I had a plat in my game today. Im in bronze 3 top :). I mean they lost but hey.

MagicFlyingLlamaFeb 3, 20199 votes

They would just grief anyway. LP is shared between roles, so they are damaging every role.

SaevumFeb 3, 201938 votes

We did not needed the role ranking system to begin with. What is its purpose? it does nothing. Increases toxicity, that's all it does.

Abibyama IIFeb 3, 20195 votes

To fix autofill

SaevumFeb 3, 20193 votes

Sorry, but i fail to comprehend your comment. Can you elaborate?

In the meanwhile, i will say that autofill has always existed from the very first time League of Legends had a lobby with 2 players that could fill the same role but one needed to fullfill his or her duty as a support, top, mid, jungle, or adc. Depending on what was needed at that moment.

Abibyama IIFeb 3, 20195 votes

To please the "fookin autofilled players ruining me games I tell ya" folk by matching the autofilled player's position to lower "elo". It's pretty easy to see the reason

SaevumFeb 3, 20198 votes

This role ranking system does the opposite. What a shame.

Midg3tFeb 3, 20197 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iue4k0d2,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-03T11:46:55.143+0000)

To please the "fookin autofilled players ruining me games I tell ya" folk by matching the autofilled player's position to lower "elo". It's pretty easy to see the reason

So instead of ruining games for every1, they're ruining only for low elo players....

Great design, I definitely see nothing wrong with it [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

It's almost like there is something in common with the issues in new and old ranked system...hmmm...maybeeeeee autofill? Naah that can't be the case :')

Abibyama IIFeb 3, 20194 votes

Remove autofill and you'll wait longer. They don't want long queue time

Midg3tFeb 3, 20198 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iue4k0d2,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-03T17:31:46.908+0000)

Remove autofill and you'll wait longer. They don't want long queue time

Hmmm what's better: to wait 1 min to get some1 who's autofilled on mine/enemy team and get stomped/stomp enemy team, or wait 3 mins to get a quality match?

MjaumjaukittenzFeb 3, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, but i fail to comprehend your comment. Can you elaborate?

In the meanwhile, i will say that autofill has always existed from the very first time League of Legends had a lobby with 2 players that could fill the same role but one needed to fullfill his or her duty as a support, top, mid, jungle, or adc. Depending on what was needed at that moment.

EUW does not have the new system yet. NA is "trying" it out or whatever Rito said. We still use the old ranked system.

Live2LetDieFeb 3, 20194 votes

But not by a lot, 3-4lp. So I can play an off role, adc, get stomped and lose a game without any worry since my main role gets hit so small. It basically condones smurfing.

5050BSFeb 3, 201914 votes

This is WHY it is a bad design. You hurt everyone on your team that got their main role.

Abibyama IIFeb 3, 20195 votes

Nah keep beta testing this for us :P

LhuhzFeb 3, 20193 votes

Yeah, I think the same WW flair

LuxannaVeritasFeb 4, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iue4k0d2,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-03T09:56:04.490+0000)

Nah keep beta testing this for us :P

This comment made my night tbh. Thank you for this haha

Personally I like the ranked changes because it lets me test myself with roles other than my main role of support. If I want to practice mid and ADC competitively, then this system is perfect. I know that coming across griefers in games feels bad, but to be honest, people who grief in this system are incredibly stupid. The system does a better job at escalating penalties for this kind of behavior, so if reports don't get them then higher LP drops will.

While playing in multiple roles does feel like a grind fest at sometimes, I do appreciate how LP can splash into other roles too. That's basically my only complaint with the system, so I think EU will generally like it when it goes over there in 3 months or so.

Live2LetDieFeb 3, 20194 votes

Agreed. I see it as riots way to try and fight smurfing but totally fail. Anyone here, thats honest, can say if they played off role they would not care if they lost the game. Everyone else in the game probably cared but in reality I lose 3-4lp, because my main role wasnt played, and everyone else loses 15ish. Toxic

lejundaryMar 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. I see it as riots way to try and fight smurfing but totally fail. Anyone here, thats honest, can say if they played off role they would not care if they lost the game. Everyone else in the game probably cared but in reality I lose 3-4lp, because my main role wasnt played, and everyone else loses 15ish. Toxic

You do know that this could also happen to your enemy team right? It's not like you never lose on your main bc your bad. People just needed to play enough off role so the system can match you with more similar skilled player. It's like saying you can't win in normal bc no one cares but there is always a winner.

Live2LetDieMar 14, 20191 votes

You missed the point. Its not about winning or losing ratio. Its simply I could of lost on, lets say adc, and not give two shits since it doesnt effect, lets say jungle, as my main but my mid laner who is playing his main role cared about the game. is that hard to understand?

Mael JadeFeb 3, 20194 votes

Instead of just screaming "Remove it Already" you could help Riot SapMagic and all the other people working on ranked by giving constructive critism, like saying what people are abusing for better LP gains and so on.

Midg3tFeb 3, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Instead of just screaming "Remove it Already" you could help Riot SapMagic and all the other people working on ranked by giving constructive critism, like saying what people are abusing for better LP gains and so on.

Which Riot already addresed by giving "ramp up" on lost splashed LP....which fixes nothing.

KairoptraFeb 3, 20193 votes

Removal should be the last option, not the first. If there’s some way to remedy these problems without having wasted all that time and money, why not take it? What you’re suggesting is of the same kind as “just dodge the skillshot”; it may be a solution, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right one.

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 3, 201914 votes

No.

We've learned from dynamicQ and basically everything else riot is not able to fix something. Just flat out remove it because everyone who is testing it hates it. No reason to try to keep it alive.

The dynamicQ disaster could have been fixed in like a month considering the outlash instead riot tried to keep that abomination alive. Don't force another year of shitty ranked experience down our throats. That will definitely kill the game for good.

UnvictusFeb 3, 20193 votes

The quality of my games this season have never been worse! I actually was looking forward to position ranks, but I’m learning the hard way that it was a horrible idea.

rayzoFeb 3, 20193 votes

People griefed autofill games before. This is nothing new, in fact I would say there's fewer griefers since you have a much higher chance of getting your main role now. If they do grief you, report them and move on.

chipndip1Feb 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raymønd Åmantius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iue4k0d2,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-02-03T21:57:29.433+0000)

People griefed autofill games before. This is nothing new, in fact I would say there's fewer griefers since you have a much higher chance of getting your main role now. If they do grief you, report them and move on.

But now there's no reason to even consider switching roles to try to deal with auto-fills and off-roles. The way the match is made is way too bungled up based on what's happening and it feels horrible when you don't get main role or get someone else that's not on main role.

LuxannaVeritasFeb 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

But now there's no reason to even consider switching roles to try to deal with auto-fills and off-roles. The way the match is made is way too bungled up based on what's happening and it feels horrible when you don't get main role or get someone else that's not on main role.

I'm going to politely disagree on this point. Though I do see why you think this.

There's always a chance that someone would be willing to switch in the case of getting auto-filled, so I'm going to say that there's always a reason to ask. Of course, asking politely is better.

I don't think people should instantly give up if they don't get their main role. It would likely be your secondary role, which you put secondary for a reason. Playing out the game to your fullest potential gives you a higher chance of winning than starting out in a negative mindset. If you get a role that isn't your primary or secondary, then it's likely an unfortunate and rare occurrence and it's a slightly different story. But all the more reason to ask to switch with someone, right?

If you feel terrible when someone gets a role that isn't their main because you're worried that they will grief, then it's a problem with the player base, not the system.

Captn ClutchFeb 15, 20191 votes

I agree that it's a problem with the player base, but the reality is the system needs to fix it. This is a free to play game, that is easy to run on mediocre hardware. Just about ANYBODY can play it. Due to this low barrier of entry, you have to expect a bit of a mixed player base. Not everyone is going to be perfect little angels. In a perfect world with 100% honorable upstanding citizens for the player base, this system would work great! But that isn't reality. Leaving this system in place and blaming the player base for any bad experiences would be the low effort, hands off approach. The system needs to incentivise people to play well, and punish them for not doing so. For an example, I'm not perfect either. I'm focused on ranking up my mid lane right now. I will play my hardest and fight to the bitter end in every mid game. That being said, if I'm in an off role and my team is getting rekt, it's not worth my effort. I'm more than happy to just surrender, take the - 3LP and get back to mid next game. If I was looking at losing full LP even in an off role, you better believe I would (and did in previous seasons) play my heart out trying to save my LP even when auto filled. In short, I don't believe I would say this system promotes toxic behavior, but it certainly promotes a lazy care free attitude to anyone who isn't playing their main. Why try hard and burn yourself out just to help out the team you got stuck with, when the end result has almost no effect on the rank you care about? To be honorable of course! But remember, we're talking about human beings here, not perfect little angels. Most people are only looking out for themselves. Especially in solo Q.

lejundaryMar 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captn Clutch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iue4k0d2,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T03:52:26.111+0000)

I agree that it's a problem with the player base, but the reality is the system needs to fix it. This is a free to play game, that is easy to run on mediocre hardware. Just about ANYBODY can play it. Due to this low barrier of entry, you have to expect a bit of a mixed player base. Not everyone is going to be perfect little angels. In a perfect world with 100% honorable upstanding citizens for the player base, this system would work great! But that isn't reality. Leaving this system in place and blaming the player base for any bad experiences would be the low effort, hands off approach. The system needs to incentivise people to play well, and punish them for not doing so. For an example, I'm not perfect either. I'm focused on ranking up my mid lane right now. I will play my hardest and fight to the bitter end in every mid game. That being said, if I'm in an off role and my team is getting rekt, it's not worth my effort. I'm more than happy to just surrender, take the - 3LP and get back to mid next game. If I was looking at losing full LP even in an off role, you better believe I would (and did in previous seasons) play my heart out trying to save my LP even when auto filled. In short, I don't believe I would say this system promotes toxic behavior, but it certainly promotes a lazy care free attitude to anyone who isn't playing their main. Why try hard and burn yourself out just to help out the team you got stuck with, when the end result has almost no effect on the rank you care about? To be honorable of course! But remember, we're talking about human beings here, not perfect little angels. Most people are only looking out for themselves. Especially in solo Q.

If that's true then your enemy is also carefree, this is the same blame as "my team suck that's why I am in this elo. " If you play with shitty players then you are playing against shitty players. It's easy to see flaw of others, people make of fun pros when they are sliver players.

Wild GeeseFeb 3, 20193 votes

The problem is there's no construtive criticism to give, I do not want them to *fix" this role queue, I think they should remove it as a way to "fix" it. It was just a terrible idea. Fixing it is a waste of time.

The fact that the whole point of role queue was to fix toxicity of Autofills and it only made it worse or at best the same says a lot about it. It's a system only intended to lower scapegoat of autofill and it can't even do that. But on top of that, it makes offroles almost as toxic as autofills. What is the point of role queue then?

Pro SphynxFeb 3, 20193 votes

I love that I can que up with platinum players and silver players in the same game #Badrankingsystem

DeracadaVenomFeb 4, 20193 votes

So trolls made it worse?

I smell every season of league of legends

GripaAviaraFeb 3, 20192 votes

The idea is great but they are doing it wrong. There needs to be a single rank and position modifiers.

How it would go is that 3/2 of the points go to/get deducted from the Rank, and 1/2 goes to/gets deducted from the modifier. The modifier can never go below the single Rank, and when it's at 0, the whole points get deducted from the rank, making it less enticing to grief.

Emelie CauchemarFeb 4, 20192 votes

I don't think the new system is why you have gold 3 mmr and a 30% wr despite being d3 last season. :B.

If it's trully impacting you, then utilize op.gg and dodge the games your adc is autofilled.

chipndip1Feb 4, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emelie Cauchemar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Iue4k0d2,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-02-04T01:21:38.494+0000)

I don't think the new system is why you have gold 3 mmr and a 30% wr despite being d3 last season. :B.

If it's trully impacting you, then utilize op.gg and dodge the games your adc is autofilled.

It isn't. I still don't like it regardless.

BestPudgeNAFeb 4, 20192 votes

You're just mad cause the new ranking system exposes people who are really bad at the game. I'm enjoying the new system and seeing awful players drop to the division the deserve

HyperTechnoFeb 4, 20192 votes

It has not been a month yet, and people think its perfect out of the door. Most of the problems you stress Riot has mentioned and are aware of, that is the main reason it is tested in NA and Korea, only. Because we are in technically the most competitive servers in the world so they can collect lots of data.

The system is undergoing testing, right now. You are complaining about nothing. Either, you did not pay attention or you are writing this for attention.

Give Riot feedback, not a useless blob of text. At least you have written that the duo thing is a problem, which was announced would be a problem, by Riot themselves and that they would be looking out for it.

This Duo thing will be solved, much soon that you would expect. Since it is their main concern because they could not gain enough info at Riot Inc. to make the system almost 100% foolproof on release.

Anyway, GL HF.

YennFeb 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

It has not been a month yet, and people think its perfect out of the door. Most of the problems you stress Riot has mentioned and are aware of, that is the main reason it is tested in NA and Korea, only. Because we are in technically the most competitive servers in the world so they can collect lots of data.

The system is undergoing testing, right now. You are complaining about nothing. Either, you did not pay attention or you are writing this for attention.

Give Riot feedback, not a useless blob of text. At least you have written that the duo thing is a problem, which was announced would be a problem, by Riot themselves and that they would be looking out for it.

This Duo thing will be solved, much soon that you would expect. Since it is their main concern because they could not gain enough info at Riot Inc. to make the system almost 100% foolproof on release.

Anyway, GL HF.

We're in the middle of the competitive ranked season. It's not acceptable to test broken, half thought out shit during the competitive season. That's what the pre-season is for.

LuxannaVeritasFeb 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

We're in the middle of the competitive ranked season. It's not acceptable to test broken, half thought out shit during the competitive season. That's what the pre-season is for.

Your point would be valid if positional ranks were broken and half-thought-out shit. Except they aren't.

Have you seen the Dev blogs about this? They've been putting a LOT of thought and work into this. They even addressed and changed around public feedback that the players had. This system is growing and being improved on today as well; it was never bad to begin with. It's going from a good system to an even better system.

Plus, if 2 weeks for you is "the middle of the competitive ranked season," then it sounds like you just quit playing ranked a month into every season. It's also just for two regions in the world. Give it until the end of the first ranked split before you use radical statements like "broken, half thought out shit".

YennFeb 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Your point would be valid if positional ranks were broken and half-thought-out shit. Except they aren't.

Have you seen the Dev blogs about this? They've been putting a LOT of thought and work into this. They even addressed and changed around public feedback that the players had. This system is growing and being improved on today as well; it was never bad to begin with. It's going from a good system to an even better system.

Plus, if 2 weeks for you is "the middle of the competitive ranked season," then it sounds like you just quit playing ranked a month into every season. It's also just for two regions in the world. Give it until the end of the first ranked split before you use radical statements like "broken, half thought out shit".

> Duo queues abusing the system by swapping lanes if their team composition is bad, so no LP loss to their main roles

> Duo queues abusing the system go get into lower MMR games, then swapping to their main roles for full LP gain

> Nobody cares about trying to win unless they're on their main role, because there's basically no penalty for losing

> Diamond players assumed to be Diamond in all roles, so that support main who's actually Silver in every other role is going to have to lose dozens of games to drop to Silver.

could have possibly predicted any of these major issues? Certainly not half though-out shit, they just obviously didn't have the foresight to see and prevent all of these abuses of the system.

The ladder has already started and placements have been finished. Even if all of this ridiuclous shit is fixed, the damage has been done.

{quoted} The system does a better job at escalating penalties for this kind of behavior, so if reports don't get them then higher LP drops will.

At this point, I'm pretty sure these are Riot shill accounts trying to make it look like anyone supports this abortion of a system.

There is zero hard evidence that the system works like this, and if it even does, nobody I know of has encountered it. So you clearly either know something about the system that we don't, or you're making things up. Provide evidence.

LuxannaVeritasFeb 4, 20193 votes

{quoted}

> Duo queues abusing the system by swapping lanes if their team composition is bad, so no LP loss to their main roles

> Duo queues abusing the system go get into lower MMR games, then swapping to their main roles for full LP gain

> Nobody cares about trying to win unless they're on their main role, because there's basically no penalty for losing

> Diamond players assumed to be Diamond in all roles, so that support main who's actually Silver in every other role is going to have to lose dozens of games to drop to Silver.

Who could have possibly predicted any of these major issues? Certainly not half though-out shit, they just obviously didn't have the foresight to see and prevent all of these abuses of the system.

The ladder has already started and placements have been finished. Even if all of this ridiuclous shit is fixed, the damage has been done.

Thank GOD you posted something with more evidence and substance than your last post. Now I don't have to be so brutal with my wording, thanks for expanding out.

To start, let me clarify; this system isn't perfect. It's far from it. But I think a lot of the problems you're seeing now have been around for a while, with the exception of what you call "basically no penalty for losing," which I'll touch upon later.

Duo queues have always been a bit sneaky in terms of gaming the system. I feel like this isn't anything new; duo queues can switch positions whenever they want. It's a problem that I don't see often in ranked, but I know it's in all ranking systems. (frankly, I'm personally wanting a true solo experience without duo queues so I'm a bit biased. Though, no one can stop players from dropping Discord links so a team of solos can communicate.)

In terms of Diamond point, I believe that according to this article, the ranks merge at MASTER instead of Diamond. Plus, just from personal experience, I rarely get autofilled when I play numerous ADC/Mid/JG games on end, so I don't think Diamond players are going to worry about dropping to Silver... though I might just be missing your point on this, which is totally possible. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/competitive/whats-new-ranked-2019

Basically no penalty for losing. I guess? I do admit that the "splash LP gains and losses" are lacking, so people could just not try when they get an off-role and just lose minimum LP in their main role...

...but is that a problem with the SYSTEM, or the PLAYER BASE?

For one, the purpose of positional ranks is to give you a fair match no matter which role you get placed in for a game. Let's ignore the few potential ways to game the system for now, for the sake of this argument. If you're a mid main, and you get placed support, then instead of going against players of your mid rank (say Gold), you get pitted against players of your support rank (say Silver). You're given a fair game to play, so why do people NOT TRY? Because it's not worth their time? Because it's no penalty to not try? IMO that's no excuse at all. You're given a chance to play the game, and not taking up that chance and wasting the time AND LP of 4 other teammates is selfish, disrespectful, and just plain idiotic. In short, while the system doesn't do much to prevent this, I do feel like this issue is the fault of the PLAYER.

Thanks for taking back the statement you made earlier; I did feel like it was a bit extreme. Of course, this system still needs to work out some kinks and problems; there were even some that I felt like could have been foreseen as well. But the amount of work, communication, and acceptance to feedback that Riot showed about this system has been a step up from previous projects in the past, so I do have hope that the system can be refined and fixed some more.

IlovemobasFeb 4, 20192 votes

As weird as this may sound as an EU player i envy you. I would at least like to experience positional queue first hand before i am able to assess weither it is an improvement or not.

HeraimishFeb 4, 20192 votes

You know that you will lose increasing amounts of LP on your main role if you keep grieving?