I really hope Preseason causes Teamfights to become longer and more skill based

Malicious Metal·Oct 20, 2016·33 votes·1,871 views

Currently games are decided in a matter of seconds, sometimes even split seconds as Teamfights usually just revolve around who can kill the enemy FASTER, unloading ALL the damage instead of playing around, timing shields, spells and so on.

I really hope with Tanks getting buffed, Assassins getting their burst windows extended and mages getting hit by lowering the burst on Rylais/Protobelt teamfigthing actually becomes enjoyable once again and last more than two seconds.

Currently the team who manages to burst faster wins, period. I'd very much want to see a meta where CC'ing the right person, peeling, engaging at opportune times and knowing just HOW to team fight besides just blowing every CD and hoping for the best

45 Comments

Big LincolnOct 20, 201623 votes

adc is the reason teamfights are so short

most of them have the sort of DPS that might as well be burst vs any non-tank

Ben SharpioOct 20, 20164 votes

The worst part is that we can actually justify how much disgusting damage ADC'S output late game because early-game juggernauts and tanks shut them down pretty easily. It feels like the attack speed slows that you can get from frozen heart and randuins are ineffective late game, as ADC'S ignore the attackspeed slows, are outputting AOE crits cough jinx and are provided the survivability of lifesteal

Big LincolnOct 20, 20164 votes

early-game juggernauts and tanks shut them down pretty easily.

adc should never struggle vs a juggernaut

Tychusfindlay919Oct 20, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IqRmhRcs,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-10-20T12:51:06.821+0000)

?

adc should never struggle vs a juggernaut

Depends on adc and juggernaut and the lane they are interacting in.

MordepoolOct 21, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Sion Bot l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IqRmhRcs,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-10-20T12:30:02.943+0000)

The worst part is that we can actually justify how much disgusting damage ADC'S output late game because early-game juggernauts and tanks shut them down pretty easily. It feels like the attack speed slows that you can get from frozen heart and randuins are ineffective late game, as ADC'S ignore the attackspeed slows, are outputting AOE crits cough jinx and are provided the survivability of lifesteal

Life steal needs a major nerf

ZT XperimentorOct 21, 20161 votes

Hmmm, attack speed related items . . . +30% item 3094 +35% item 3006 item 3087 +40% item 3153 item 3085 item 3078 item 3091 item 3142 +45% item 3124 item 3046 +50% item 3115

-15% item 3110 item 3143

Yeah marksmen were & still are pretty much uneffected, even before the wave of tank nerfs.

SpoofghoulOct 20, 201617 votes

its still burst vs tanks

AirKingNeoOct 21, 20162 votes

As long as they have item 3036 and if they aren't crit then toss on item 3071 .

Hence, WHY ISN'T BLACK CLEAVER MELEE ONLY?

RalanrOct 21, 20161 votes

Because rage is also on triforce?

TequilaZombieOct 21, 20163 votes

Rage is not the problem, it's the armor shred.

ForgiveColourOct 20, 20162 votes

Definitely nothing to do with mages in mid lane melting enemy backline and being a tank shredder But yah be with the circlejerk and complain about adc LUL

Big LincolnOct 20, 20166 votes

DPS mages and Veigar late game are the only AP threat to tanks

ADC are still worse to deal with tbh

ForgiveColourOct 20, 20161 votes

Implying every meta mage doesnt have insane dps burst cc zone control lane dominance

Roflllllll but yeah keep qqing about trash adc

Kingdom CornOct 20, 20163 votes

And adcs are the reason teamfights are just not skill based.... Auto attack auto attack auto attack press q auto attack auto attack

ItsbeghdevOct 21, 20161 votes

And don't die. That's also pretty important.

LovelleOct 21, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IqRmhRcs,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-20T11:53:45.037+0000)

adc is the reason teamfights are so short

most of them have the sort of DPS that might as well be burst vs any non-tank

I would argue that mages are just as much at fault. DPS classes get everything handed to them on a silver platter in this game. This is probably the only game I've played where tanks/offtanks are neglected so much in favor of catering to DPS players. Every tank should have defensive steroids in their kit, but some are reliant on defensive itemization, which doesn't scale well into the late game.

Maximum MordeOct 20, 20168 votes

It wont. Riot likes twitchier gameplay.

ZT XperimentorOct 21, 20161 votes

Guess the spaghetti code problem makes sense then, they refuse to give up their coffee addition.

ErockandrollOct 20, 20166 votes

The longer the team fight goes, the bigger the chance the enemy can disengage, the bigger chance the enemy disengages, the less decisive the victory will be, the less decisive the victory will be, smaller the chance we can actually take objectives, the smaller the chance of taking objectives, the less value the teamfight had over all.

The other problem with that train of thought is, 90% of the teamfight is in the setup. The best team fighters are the ones with the best engage. but the determining factor isn't their ultimate themselves, usually it their choice of TP or pathing leading them into a flank or ambush. Which could potentially be avoided with good vision control.

President Swa1nOct 20, 20162 votes

I strongly agree with this reasoning actually, positioning prior to a team fight is infinitely important and I actually enjoy it more this way

ZT XperimentorOct 21, 20161 votes

Too bad all the easily accessible mobility makes positioning mistakes negligible.

DivewingOct 21, 20162 votes

Why do you think Riot's trying so hard to remove vision? INTERESTING FIGHTS RIGHT GUYS?! You HAVE to facecheck because theres no wards anymore, but getting ambushed like that is EXCITING RIGHT? FUN PRO GAMES WHERE THEY ARE DECIDED BY 1 SILLY TEAMFIGHT BECAUSE THE SUPPORT WAS CAUGHT PLACING THEIR SINGLE WARD RIGHT? /s in case no ones realised yet

MunchCrunchLunchOct 20, 20163 votes

sorry but when an adc crits for 600-2k damage 0.7-2.5 times a second. team fights. will never. be long. never. thats mainly why. and mages too. but at least tanks can tank even full build mages but not adcs .the attack speed cap needs to be lowered. to 2.0 instead of 2.5. also. we need to revise crit as a whole. from 2x damage to possibly 1.5 and 1.75 with IE or make adcs CHOOSE betweeen attack speed or CRIT. not have them BOTH in the same fucking items. and NO THIS WILL NOT GUT ADCS. there are 2 ADCS in every fucking game at least. and if it did thats the only time we ever don't have ad carries meta. which won't happen trust me.

FurriesAreHotOct 20, 20162 votes

I agree for the most part. Right now as It stand team fights go one of two ways, either one team gets slaughtered and aced/near aced in a matter of seconds or its a poke fest and neither team wishes to fully engage and backs off. Not that its a bad thing, but not really as rewarding and skill based as it should be.

Earl EulrichOct 20, 20162 votes

i guess most older players do...but sadly right now it doesn´t look like riot will do anything to get rid off the absurd amounts of dmg present in the game to make it more strategic again.

SlythionOct 20, 20161 votes

I don't consider myself an older player (1st game was nearly 2 years ago, but I didn't invest time into the game until about the later half of S5) and I've been wanting longer teamfights for ages now

The Yetii RiderOct 20, 20162 votes

How are tanks getting buffed?

Frozen Heart costing 100 less? A keystone that gives you a shield instead of 300 bonus health at all times? ((Which is a direct nerf to Warmog's, by the way))

LiofaOct 20, 20162 votes

Who are you kidding. Riot just added more true damage into the game. Long team fights = less fantasy according the meddler so you're never going to see that again.

WoonStruckOct 20, 20162 votes

We've got more generalist damage masteries, and more far-too-specific tank masteries, if that says anything to you.

FriusOct 20, 20162 votes

that moment when u have 350 armor and 3k hp and enemy is Vayne or has item 3036 and facemelts you

High5Oct 21, 20162 votes

This is subjective, but I do prefer tank metas too.

KoKobotoOct 21, 20162 votes

Yeah I like the longer teamfights because it wasn't about oh you didn't dodge 1 thing you're dead and every onne is dead

Dextix LTOct 21, 20162 votes

WIth the masteries we can see, this will be just a dream it seems, because tank will still not be able to tank properly.

MrWasjigOct 21, 20162 votes

Wait, tanks are getting buffed? Is that through items or did I miss a Surr@20 post? O.o Because it's certainly not through Masteries (Colossus not withstanding) (cries in the corner) Why must you forsake Tank Supports, Riot!?...and just tanks in general I guess

RalanrOct 20, 20161 votes

The only class that might keep teamfights short is the ADC IMO. But with the other changes this might be me worrying about nothing.

Ben SharpioOct 20, 20161 votes

This is why we need to utilize more engage-heavy comps like kled so that we can engage on the ADC quickly, and ban janna because janna is incredibly overpowered with how easy she can protect adc's and enhance their stats with windspeakers. We need some good kled players to come around, we need malphites we need amumu, sion and maokai players to come together and completely shut the ADC's down so that we can enjoy our team team figths

Malicious MetalOct 20, 20161 votes

Malphite and Ammumu would see the rise of Wardens once again.

Wardens to counter Vanguards, it'll be glorious

Ben SharpioOct 20, 20161 votes

Yes all of the tanks are going to come back into meta, and our teamfights are going to be longer because the new courage of the colossus mastery encourages team comps that have higher CC and people are going to want to play tanks again team fights are going to be more fun and long lasting than they've ever been. All we have to do is keep nerfing mages items so that they're less bursty, and adc's are getting toned down already so now the tanks are gonna have a good time and quality gameplay is going to slowly but surely become a thing.

Shadow HazardOct 20, 20161 votes

Riot wouldn't allow that because pro games would never end and ppl would complain

MirkhailOct 20, 20161 votes

An engage is usually associated with burst, without burst only dps mages and adc will be able to do something against tank and teamfight will became dps vs dps with mostly cc tank, a dps vs dps teamfight is often inconclusive without a lot of cc.

I don't think the situation we have now is perfect but i think it's very easy that even slight changes can make a team fight last too long, if it was for me i would reduced a bit the late game damage of adc to let tanks last a bit longer but buff their mid game a bit, so they can fight earlier and still be relevant, maybe if needed i will reduced the late game burst of some champions (maybe some mages or assassins) but this would need further testing.

five oh tree Oct 20, 20161 votes

No thanks. Longer teamfights are boring and you'll pretty much never get more than one or two enemies. After a team loses one or two champs, they just turtle. I like things to actually have a meaning and not feel like the dumbass tank meta from season 5 where the meta team comp had 3+ tanks.

CrazyBear1987Oct 21, 20161 votes

most of the time its a battle of attrition, any sort of advantage against your opponent is a win, turning a 5 v 5 into a 3 v 5 as soon as possible will give instant results. Thats why we see item 3026 , item 3102 and item 3157

ZT XperimentorOct 21, 20161 votes

I agree I hope the game returns to it's chess-style gameplay. However you forgot marksmen still have strong anti-tank tools, and excessive bonuses to be bursty as well; if anything they'll replace mages & assassins by being able to do both, while still being capable of tearing down objectives with ease.

DJ LucioOct 21, 20161 votes

I love when I instantly decide a teamfight when I: Ekko Stun a team Even better when you cancel a Jhin or Yasuo ult with it

LordKentravyonOct 21, 20161 votes

Honesty this exact reason is why I play both LoL and HotS Both have their strong and weak points I am more lenient towards league but the slower fights in heroes are really enjoyable