Like i can build every last magic pen item in the game and I do jack shit against someone who has one MR item, meanwhile anyone with lethality cuts through fucking 300 armor. Can we get some buff or someshit for magic pen? Like 1 damn item for it shouldnt counter my entire fucking kit.....
MrHaZeYo4 votesLethality doesn't cut through armor, it needs to be comboed with Last Whisper and/or Black Cleaver.
We have a more useful item in Void Staff but we're gated on Cooldowns so it doesn't seem like we do as much to tanks.
Mages counter ADCs ADCs counter tanks Tanks counter Mages.
The Triangle stands true.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteshmm where are the divers, juggernauts and supports?
MaeDoSan1 votesADC counter tanks in 2k17 lul ? All i see is tanks mages and assassins
Edge of Daybreak3 votesIt's funny because a player with max lethality gets what 70 lethality now and that takes 3 items + your runes and masteries.
You know what it takes a mage to get a comparable amount of pen? A single void staff against any one with 200 or more mr.
l Dárius l2 votesbecause there is no dedicated ap champ in the game who is meant to kill tanks
Dynikus2 voteslooking at your last game, you built 
are you aware 
provide 15 magic pen, 
deals 10% more magic damage, and 
steal 5 mr per stack?
also nasus had 
that's two MR items.
Limmie2 votesFlat penetration (both magic pen and lethality) is useless against armor/magic resist. Their intended purpose is to pierce base armor/resists and make you deal close to true damage to targets without armor/resists items. Against tank items you need % penetration (/
).
And the reason why magic penetration is less common than lethality is because champions usually get more base armor per level than magic resist.
Talinis1 votesFlat penetration (both magic pen and lethality) is useless against armor/magic resist. Their intended purpose is to pierce base armor/resists and make you deal close to true damage to targets without armor/resists items. Against tank items you need % penetration (
And the reason why magic penetration is less common than lethality is because champions usually get more base armor per level than magic resist.
The two problems with AD champions is their ability to stack multiple MR items like edge and maw and the fact that after a champion like a bruiser such as riven or an assassin such as zed/talon et all have comboed, they can sit there doing high damage auto attacks while a mage has nothing. If AD casters were like their AP kin, then I could see this. However, all I see is highly mobile, burst champions also having very good sustain damage to clean out fights and if fed, do not even need to use most of their abilities against someone who gets an armor item whereas mages, even when getting fed, have to full combo their kit against someone who takes an MR item.
All AP teams do not work. You can bet all the money that you own that a full AD team works because of the insane number of pen items and options available to them. You can have a Zed go last whisper, BC, and the holy lethality trinity and he will do near true damage to anyone that doesn't have 400 armor. There are less AP items and far less tools and options available and the ones that are available, are often weaker, such as void not having a secondary effect and morellos (their anti sustain) needing to burst a target to 35% for grevious vs mortal being up 100%. Which is especially funny considering the ones that sustain the most in the first place are, ADs outside of some tanks. Everyone likes to point to the almighty zhonyas but forgets to mention that ADS have scimitar, edge, ghostblade (to open engages or kite away), steraks for more bruisers , maw to avoid burst (already 3 AD MR items to 1 AP armor item). Sure we got seraphs which is usable on a few champions but nothing like maw.
Sure, you can argue that AD's don't have any armor items but in a world where ADs are just vsing other AD's, how does that even matter. AP's best advantage is that there is often only one of them so they can't stack more than 1 MR item or risk being shredded by multiple lethality users.
Limmie2 votesThe two problems with AD champions is their ability to stack multiple MR items like edge and maw and the fact that after a champion like a bruiser such as riven or an assassin such as zed/talon et all have comboed, they can sit there doing high damage auto attacks while a mage has nothing
Mages have high scalings, CC, zonning tools and high range. They're not supposed to be frontline troops, so bruisers and assassins are being allowed to just stand there and auto-attack, they're just exploiting either a failure on the mage's part to use their CC at the right time or to position properly. Most importantly, mages have easy access to Zhonya's, which completely negates any sort of focused burst if used properly.
All AP teams do not work.
They don't work because AP is really bad at taking objectives and towers, not because of lack of magic penetration. A single voidstaff will negate 35% of a target's entire magic resistance (that means both base MR and bonus MR)
You can have a Zed go last whisper, BC, and the holy lethality trinity and he will do near true damage to anyone that doesn't have 400 armor.
The 3 lethality items will only give 45 armor penetration at level 18, and the lowest base armor at level 18 (Gnar's) is 65. That means even investing half of your inventory space to lethality, you can't even break through anybody's base armor. A black clever needs to be stacked first, and a LDR will only negate bonus armor. This build you mention is terrible and useless against a team that has any clue. They'll be doing a lot of damage, but any mage can shut them down immediately before they can actually inflict it because they'll be have no sustain and no resistance.
Talinis1 votesMages have high scalings, CC, zonning tools and high range. They're not supposed to be frontline troops, so bruisers and assassins are being allowed to just stand there and auto-attack, they're just exploiting either a failure on the mage's part to use their CC at the right time or to position properly. Most importantly, mages have easy access to Zhonya's, which completely negates any sort of focused burst if used properly.
Mages only have overall average scalings. Ya sure, they get more AP but their spells only do a PERCENTAGE of it, not ALL of it cept in special circumstances. The only reason they "do damage" is because most can combo their entire kit in the blink of an eye and a lot of it is AOE. Any one spell does less damage than 1 ADC crit. A fully empowered Fizz W (1.0 scaling) DOES LESS DAMAGE than an ADC crit and he has to wait 2 full seconds. HOWEVER, it works well because he can combo it with his entire kit such as shark, E and Q within a small window. Yes, their CC and zoning helps to overcome their weak points in damage whereas someone like an ADC does not. However, CC can be brought by any bot lane support or tank champion like nautilus.
They don't work because AP is really bad at taking objectives and towers, not because of lack of magic penetration. A single voidstaff will negate 35% of a target's entire magic resistance (that means both base MR and bonus MR)
AP also don't work because when a team stacks MR, they do no damage to the enemy team as they tank every bit of damage and just sustain it up. You ever try a full AP team against a vayne. If the vayne itemizes items like maw, edge, scimitar, he is STILL getting a buttload of AD, still has 2 slots for other items (a lifesteal item for one) and is essentially unkillable. You have no clue what you are talking about until you actually play full AP teams against people who itemize and gear properly. Sure a bit has to do with siege but the main reason is because even with full pen, there is absolutely nothing you can do to kill your targets. Whereas a full AD team has neither issue.
And the pen options are weaker. There is sorc boots for 15, 14 from runes/masteries which gets rid of base and then you have void which pens 35%. Then you have a liandrys which only works on some mages. But let's not forget of everyone, ADC included, who take scaling MR blues for 27 more MR. So there goes that idea about shredding MR. But you give up the option of better boots, clears less MR for mr stacking targets and that void staff gives a lot less in comparison to something like a mortal reminder or giant killer making it less slot efficient. However the 2 biggest problems which makes pen worse than it is is from items like maw/steraks/edge/banshee put up shields or magic shield to soak up even more burst or spells in an engage, scimitar removes their cc and that ADS have lifesteal to heal back up. And since the mage has actual cds on damage unless you are cassio or ryze (which are getting fixed), an ADC will be full by then or more likely you are dead.
The 3 lethality items will only give 45 armor penetration at level 18, and the lowest base armor at level 18 (Gnar's) is 65. That means even investing half of your inventory space to lethality, you can't even break through anybody's base armor. A black clever needs to be stacked first, and a LDR will only negate bonus armor. This build you mention is terrible and useless against a team that has any clue. They'll be doing a lot of damage, but any mage can shut them down immediately before they can actually inflict it because they'll be have no sustain and no resistance.
45 and runes and masteries make it 65. BC is notoriously easy to stack on casters and last whisper counters essentially half of any bonus armor (which includes runes) Also, INVESTING In lethality? There is no investment since the other 2 main stat which AD casters want, which is AD ofc and CDR, is not even close to lacking in any form on the items and as a bonus, each lethality item brings a great amount of utility (MR/bubble on edge, MS active on ghostblade (10%), duskblade and it's boons, black cleaver and it's phage boost (20% cdr as well) and last whisper with an always on grevious wounds or an abyssal aura type damage boost against tanks.) What do the Mr pen items give??????? ....???? Liandrys syncs more damage with dots on full hp targets???? Cool story.
And as an addition to the lethality, everyone gains armor as they level but everyone also gains AD as they level up. Many do not gain MR but nobody gains any AP levelling up. Perhaps something for you to think about.
I mentioned Zed in the comment because high mobility ADS like AD assassins do not need resistance or sustain in order to easily combo burst a target especially considering edge of night is one of the lethality items and they have the ghostblade ms. It is horribly easy to counter a CC immobile mage unless you, as a player, are bad. I have played countless games and is it a bit rare to see a mobile AD bruiser/assassin ever struggle with most AP's. Usually the AP player is struggling to stay alive and without peel is instantly popped. Zhonyas helps against burst but does nothing against sustained damage that ADs can dish out.
The first and biggest advantage that AP champions have is that there is often only one of them so the enemy team getting more than 1 actual MR item for a tank and foregoing stacking armor will risk having them get destroyed by the multiple enemy AD champions, at least one of whom is stacking armor pen meaning the AP is still able to put out relevant levels of damage. Meanwhile, the AD champions are still doing comparable damage as the AP despite dealing with multilple armor item targets. And the second advantage is that a lot of magic damage is ranged AOE meaning it has the opportunity to hit multiple targets. So in the scenario of a 1 AP team where the enemy is not stacking MR (obvious since only 1 AP with 2 - 3 AD's), the AP can actually do a lot of damage.
The only current outliers are sustain AP damage like ryze or cass and riot is going to introduce a new item to deal with them so rip.
It's too bad that currently most players are AD mains currently (due to how op multiple AD items/characters are) so it's difficult to have a legit discussion without bias from AD players. Please look at the facts. AP, only Zhonya, seraphs for defensive that has an active. AD? Many times that number. Same with armor pen options. AD items overloaded? Certainly, just take a look at triforce and black cleaver.
