You Can Un-Nerf Gragas Now.

Lemons22·Jul 15, 2015·8 votes·761 views

This topic is probably not going to garner much sympathy, but it's true nonetheless: I've rarely seen a champion the target of as many nerfs as Gragas has had in the last few patches. He was nerfed in 5.10, then swiftly nerfed again in 5.12, not to mention the indirect nerfs he received from the nerfing of Cinderhulk, gromp buff, and now Righteous Glory in 5.13.

Some of the nerfs you've made to the champion should be reverted because of this. His win rate is currently 45% which is among the lowest among junglers. He went from god tier to trash tier because yall got in the nerfmobile and put a cinderblock on the gas pedal, then forgot to ever take it off. You Olaf'd him. One of my favorite champs is basically unplayable now.

21 Comments

OperationDEEZ1Jul 16, 20152 votes

Remember when people played Gragas in mid lane? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

CalabokJul 16, 20152 votes

YOU are RIGHT.

No sympathy for Gragas lovers. LOL

LuggJul 16, 20152 votes

Gragas is definitely not trash tier. Unless of course you consider balanced trash.

Sir YamazukiJul 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Gragas is definitely not trash tier. Unless of course you consider balanced trash.

If you consider a champion where not even the few people who play him for over 100 games can win half the time "balanced", then Riot needs to hurry up and nerf so many champions because a ton of them win 10% more often when played even by inexperienced players.

LuggJul 16, 20152 votes

The ONLY reason his win rate is down is because a bunch of scrubs are playing him due to LCS. Once they stop playing him, his rate will be back above 50%.

Hard4HamstersJul 16, 20151 votes

His winrate will probably not be above 50% anytime soon unless something else happens to him or items change in favor of him. He had a 50% winrate before the nerfs and these ARE still nerfs and there are stronger junglers than him right now. I'm not saying that he's not a strong pick because I still think that he is, but his kit is less forgiving now and it will take a lot more skill for people to be successful with him. So even if his popularity dies down and less of the unskilled people stop playing him, mid-level and high-level players are going to have a harder time finding success with him and that will still result in a drop in winrate from where it was when he was stronger when he sat at 48-52% WR.

LuggJul 16, 20152 votes

He still has a great kit. People who master him will still win games.

Hard4HamstersJul 16, 20151 votes

And people who master Elise will still win games with her. But it is general consensus that she is considerably weak right now. Elise has a great kit; in fact, it's overloaded, but that doesn't mean she is not in need of buffs because people still win with her.

Gragas DOES have a great kit, but it is possibly undertuned right now. I don't think he is considerably weak after his nerfs when he is jungling. I think he is fairly balanced as a tank jungler, but as a laner, he is incredibly weak, and I think that is where he could use buffs, because by all rights, he SHOULD be a strong laner given his kit (and this has been proven from when he was strong last year), but there is obviously some issue in his current numbers that doesn't allow him to thrive in that environment, and what it is = Q does 70% damage to minions. His damage to champions is absolutely fine as you can see Gragas chunk enemies with his current numbers and if he goes AP and builds a Lichbane, he can straight up assassinate targets, but his laning is worse than sub-par so it is hard for him to get to that point.

As an aside. I don't really mind Gragas being weaker at the moment. I think it was obnoxious that he had a near 100% pick/ban rate, but I think that speaks more to how much of a balance issue the jungle is in its current state where only 3 junglers are considered strong at any given time. Anyway. That's my piece. Good luck out there.

LuggJul 16, 20151 votes

I agree that Gragas is more balanced now. The problem is that some junglers are stupid OP and make the others look weak.

RekSai is almost 100% pick/ban in serious play.

Warwick Shyvana Diana are all god tier right now with Sated Devourer.

Sir YamazukiJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The ONLY reason his win rate is down is because a bunch of scrubs are playing him due to LCS. Once they stop playing him, his rate will be back above 50%.

I said, his winrate with MAINS is still under 50%. Gragas mains win 46% of the time, meanwhile people who are inexperienced with Nid win 52% of the time increasing up to 60%, but sure, keep banning Gragas.

LuggJul 16, 20152 votes

Well a 52% win rate in Master tier in almost 800 games is pretty damn good.

BTW Nidalee win percentage total is just 47%.

Hard4HamstersJul 16, 20151 votes

Her winrate in the jungle is 52%. 47% includes her Top, Mid, and Bot lane plays.

LuggJul 16, 20151 votes

The reason her winrate is high in the jungle is because people don't see the spears coming in time to dodge them.

Hard4HamstersJul 16, 20151 votes

And. You know. She has really strong assassination potential in the early game, she has some of the fastest clears with HP sustain thanks to her E (as long as she can keep her mana up; hello Trailblazer and Runeglaive), she has insane mobility in the jungle thanks to her passive and cougar W, and she compliments any team that can pull off a successful siege in the mid-lategame.

DurzakaJul 16, 20152 votes

You realize Gragas is a monster in competitive play right now?

BoulderoxJul 16, 20151 votes

or revert cinderhulk nerfs, devourer either needs a nerf or cinder needs a buff like EVERY jungle item has and warrior is getting one soon

Hard4HamstersJul 16, 20151 votes

The Warrior Enchant changes were pulled from the PBE. Cinderhulk doesn't really need buffs. Devourer probably needs nerfed a tad if just purely for Solo Queue. Runeglaive is getting nerfed hard already. Reintroduce Magus and Juggernaut, Rito.

BoulderoxJul 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=MyNamesAmsToki ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IkyJLjVY,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-07-16T02:02:01.658+0000)

The Warrior Enchant changes were pulled from the PBE. Cinderhulk doesn't really need buffs. Devourer probably needs nerfed a tad if just purely for Solo Queue. Runeglaive is getting nerfed hard already. Reintroduce Magus and Juggernaut, Rito https://youtu.be/zWJnA8VkAsE Also is nice thinking

NERDSMASHER5000Jul 16, 20151 votes

Gragas is still ridiculous.

I don't know who in their right mind would want buffs for him/cinderhulk/tank items except Gragas sympathizers.

Hard4HamstersJul 16, 20151 votes

He's not bad right now. I think the slow duration nerfs were just a tad much (maybe bring the duration up to 1.5 seconds when insta-popping the barrel), but I still think that he's a strong jungler. I really just wish they would unnerf his laning because they have nerfed him enough in other areas by this point that they could probably give him full damage to minions back, and then we could see Gragas back in Top or Mid as he is incredibly weak as a laner right now purely based on his Q doing 70% damage to minions, otherwise he would be pretty strong.

Again, I think he is still a great jungler when building tank as he has early game pressure and he makes a decent tank come lategame. His Ult is so strong in the right hands and his kit makes it so he has a lot to offer in teamfights and skirmishes. I don;t think he really needs any reverts to the nerfs he received, but I think it's about time he got some laning buffs. Before Gragas was picked up regularly as a tank jungler, he was an AP building solo laner with an average 45% winrate; right now, his solo lane average is about 42%. Take away the damage reduction to minions please and I would be so happy.

atomicwitJul 16, 20151 votes

He feels better and more impactful than he is. The numbers don't lie and Platinum+ players are very experienced with him at this point. He used to be over 50% and is now @ 45%. There is no doubt that this is a dramatic shift in power.