Mid-season stuff that may be harder to spot on the PBE

RiotMeddler··65 votes·54,929 views

Hi all,

Most of the mid-season stuff should be on the PBE within the next day or two. As usual it should be pretty easy to identify most of the changes, there are a few things I wanted to call out though since they may not be as easy to spot as the more standard stuff like champion adjustments. Some of this stuff will also be discussed in more detail over the next few days by the developers working specifically on it too.

  • Jungling XP's getting adjusted. In particular Machete now gives more XP, including the catch up XP if you're lower level than the monsters themselves. That's a change targeted primarily at how safe and effective buddy jungling is in organized play.

  • Tower damage will now ramp up quicker against champions and will maintain it's ramped state when swapping between multiple champions. Agro juggling during a dive should still be a good play some of the time, but riskier at low levels in particular.

  • Death timers will be getting reduced somewhat, probably between the 20-30 minute marks primarily. This is a follow up to the 6.7 changes that targeted 30 minute+ death timers, similarly aimed at reducing how punishing one fight can be and keeping a bit less gray screen time.

  • Boot enchants are getting removed. After making Homeguard a universal effect post 20 minutes we wanted to see how the boot enchant system played out. One of the main consequences has been Alacrity on a lot of champions, which as lead to noticeably higher average movement speeds. That throws off balance on a number of things, skillshots and ground targeted AOEs in particular, so we'd like to get average speeds back to a more appropriate spot. Removing boot enchants, now that the most impactful and significant is always provided, was one of the best ways we identified to do that.

  • Baron buff duration's going up a bit, in part to draw clear distinctions between it and the Elder Dragon buff (Elder dragon's around half the length, and on a longer respawn timer than normal dragons, so there shouldn't be too many cases of each team taking one of the two and then the game stalling until both are gone).

326 Comments

BetweenSkill42 votes

Why remove all the boot enchantments was causing the issues? I use item 1328 and item 1325 all the time, and they are conditional.

Is there an issue with them?

Solidair36 votes

Yes, I'm curious as well. If alacrity is the problem, why not keep the others? I'm particularly a fan of Captain and Distortion.

ROYAL REVOLUTION2 votes

{quoted}

Why remove all the boot enchantments was causing the issues? I use item 1328 and item 1325 all the time, and they are conditional.

Is there an issue with them?

I Only Used Alacrity Since They Came Out

Fervor Is Less MS And Only When You Attack Someone Disortion Is Only Good In ARAM Homeguard Got Removed Already Captain Is A Good Idea But No One Uses Them

Very Cash Money23 votes

Distortion is quite great on a chunk of champs. As annie you can get your flash down on 3 minutes which is hell of essential, since it gives you a ton of pressure.

People skilled at using summonerspells really loved that item, sad to see it go. Also when the problem is that alacrity gives better stats than the rest point still stands, why not remove the OP one and let the niche boots be there.

Blitzidious8 votes

You almost always get it on Singed as well, as teleport and ghost are very important to him.

Grougaloragran9 votes

I would get item 1308, item 1318, or item 1323 almost every game on top laners with summoner 4 and summoner 12. The reduced cooldown is amazing and I'll be very sad to see it go.

RiotRiot Axes26 votes

Our belief is that if we removed Alacrity, Captain and Fervor would be similarly problematic. There's just too much movement speed in the item system and offering the choice to get more movement speed through boot enchants isn't something we can realistically handle.

I wouldn't rule out future boot enchant work, but they're doing active harm to the live game and we haven't got a better solution right now.

BADxW0LF25 votes

Will you be reverting previous boot nerfs? If I remember correctly, item 3009 just recently was nerfed as was item 3117. Would be nice if they were given a little love back.

A Dove Like You38 votes

LOL come on now, you should know who you are talking to. Revert nerfs after they change or remove something? When has that EVER happened?

Weasel Kensei10 votes

Ayup, dats how it iz.

item 3009and item 3117 just got Sejuani 'd.

Princess Lyreia17 votes

Look, removing them will not solve the problem completely.

If you have a lot of items to get mov. speed from, then tune them down instead of **REMOVING **a feature. A lot of champions are going to be affected by this, so either you buff their base mov. speed, or they will still be outsped by champions that have mov. speed items in their builds, or skills that haste them. This is not nice, c'mon.

It can be fixed in short-term, but...long-term, it won't be good. The actual meta, right now, has a lot of quick champions, so everyone can be quick, with or without enchantment. Nerfing them won't solve the problem, okay, but removing them...it would only make the community unhappy. I'm pretty sure 7 of 10 people are unhappy about this, and, seriously, this isn't the first time in this YEAR you guys make us unhappy. So, in my honest opinion, I am sure you, all of you, should rethink about that, there's obviously still time to change your mind.

pls rito ...item 1306 item 1307 item 1308 item 1305...keep those pls

CrazedPorcupine13 votes

Why not make enchantments actives

Example: Rally to me! - for the next 5 seconds, all allies gain 20 flat MS when moving towards you. 45 second cooldown.

Phase Shift - for the next 5 seconds, ignore unit collision - 45 second cooldown

This way you have balancing levers, can do unique things that don't add MS to the game forever, and still leaves in the option of "What enchant would fit my playstyle best"

DwarvenGiant36 votes

Just a small note, Vel'Koz' E description here seems a bit weird and too similar the ult while isn't looking like it is in the ability preview.

Brahmsauce35 votes

I mean this with no disrespect, but the enchant removal seems... lazy. Why not just hit the drawing board and completely change Alacrity, and nerf/mod the other enchantments? Though the removal of distortion will quell the QQ from the scrubs who get destroyed by Annie, I'm concerned how this will effect pro-play and certain compositions/playstyles.

Pyro27 votes

What about the initial reason why enchantments were made - the slot efficiency?

Some champions with mobility spells can give up boots and use one of the %MS items instead - Luden's Echo, Lich Bane, Phantom Dancer (also Zephyr, before it got removed). That leaves the other guys sorta underpowered. In the super lategame some champions might feel bad about having to choose either boots or powerful 6th item, while some others laugh at their face and stack up 6 items (Kassadin, most other assassins, mobile ADCs).

Have you guys considered some alternative boot upgrades, very much gold-inefficient, but slot-efficient?

Example upgrades, let's say priced at 500-1000g each:

item 3006 Attack speed up to 35% (from 30%) item 3117 Base movement speed up to 35 (from 25) item 3009 Slow resistance up to 35% (from 25) item 3158 Cooldown reduction increased to 15% (from 10) item 3111 Tenacity increased to 35% (from 30) item 3047 Autoattack damage reduction increased to 15% (from 10) item 3020 Magic penetration increased to 20 (from 15)

ltmetal5 votes

I like it. Simple, innovative, and effective.

Catastrop15 votes

Good-bye dear friend, I'm going to miss you. item 1328 Seriously though, I love this enchantment and seeing it go is kind of disappointing.

Very Cash Money8 votes

Yeah the blue upgrade was very interesting as it allowed a lot of champs to be playmakers more often. Champs that relies on summonerspells are just gonna be way worse now. Not gonna complain as it initially was just a buff, but i am gonna miss that 3 min cooldown flash on firekid.

Wolfeur1 votes

At least, fewer people will play Annie and Alistar. The flash-tibbers will be less frequent.

DatDingoChingo12 votes

Hextech Protobelt-01 says hi.

Mascot 300012 votes

Is Hunter's Talisman getting the same bonus exp as machete?

RiotMeddler16 votes

Oh, yes, sorry, lazy shorthand on my part there.

ProfDrDeath7 votes

Is anything in the works for support XP gain? Just for interest here - if you roam a lot as a support, you tend to fall behind rather heftily.

ImmortalBloodCY5 votes

Not if you are Bard.

"Insert Gangsta Bard Gif"

Anomander8 votes

•Tower damage will now ramp up quicker against champions and will maintain it's ramped state when swapping between multiple champions. Agro juggling during a dive should still be a good play some of the time, but riskier at low levels in particular.

Best change I have heard so far.......now just give towers 20% more hp.

Nixtarma6 votes

Question about the boot enchants: While I think this is overall a good idea, I wonder if some of the former enchant powers will be re-assigned elsewhere.

For example, a while ago, the former Captain Enchant's minion bonuses were removed, because Elixir of Iron had similar effect. Similar relations between enchants and items exist for most of them, such as Distortion Enchant and Lucidity boots, Furor is already similar to the Rage effect of Phage, and obviously, Captains with Elixir of Iron.

Anything you can say?

RiotMeddler11 votes

I could see Summoner Spell CD getting readded somewhere else, or increased in power somewhere else it's already found. Possible we might do the same with Captain's, though no immediate plans to do so at least.

Krys Star3 votes

Ionian Boots of Lucidity could be increased to 20%, or 25%, to compensate?

RoodToob4 votes

Along with a price increase, that for 900 gold would be way too strong

Stars Shaper6 votes

Already checked everything except the podcast and I'm here to make a couple of questions (a bit offtopic).

  • Are we going to have Red threads about each mage update? (even the minor ones? pretty please).
  • Are the changes listed on the minisite the only ones those champions are going to get? (expecially talking about Xerath).
RiotMeddler9 votes

We'll be talking regularly about all the changes during these next couple of weeks especially. That won't necessarily mean giant official threads for each champ though.

The changes on the minisite aren't the full changelist, just a quick look at the more prominent changes. Xerath for example has his stun slightly shorter at close ranges/slightly longer at long ranges and some other adjustements to his ult to compensate for the extra shots (damage down at higher ranks included).

Badmagick6 votes

Please keep boot enchantments in! Maybe get rid of alacrity alone or adjust it so it's not as much move speed or make the other ones more viable. but I for one find the other other enchantments very useful in specific situations. For example I always get the captain on my utility mage supports. It's just one more thing I can use to buff up my team. Since I'm usually at the back, having that allows my team to run from bad situations easier. I use furer on almost all my adcs as it gives that quick get in and out capability to poke safer. Maybe give distortion the lower cooldowns on active items. There are many wasy these can be adjusted to be more balanced without removing them. They also give you one more thing you can spend gold on. And as a support main, when i need to keep a spot open for a pink ward, being able to buy things that don't require another slot is essential.

dunkeroni6 votes

You're removing furor, distortion, and captain just because alacrity is too strong?

Handless Nedo5 votes

Removing boot's enchantments is a direct nerf to Annie and Kennen that really rely on flash and flash's CDR granted by the blue enchantment to have a significant impact in teamfight.

Very Cash Money5 votes

To be fair their introduction was just direct buffs to these champs too, and they have not been nerfed to even it out. So they just sorta takes away a cookie that they have had for some time.

Not that I like to see it go, really was core in my CDR annie build :(

Weathered4 votes

Is talisman also getting the EXP buff? If not why not?

Is there going to be compensation somewhere else for the lack of alacrity? Maybe a buff to the cdr mastery that gives cdr on summoner spells?

rtbf2256182414 votes

Did you ever consider just changing the boots' buffs? I find distortion pretty useless, yeah but Alacrity and Captain are very useful. The scarcity of enchants it the real problem here not the inconsistencies of movement speeds.

RiotMeddler11 votes

We also wanted to pull some movement speed out of the game overall. Removing boot enchants was a good way of doing that.

voidle4 votes

Removing Captain boots is a significant nerf to supports. Having that extra passive meant that it was still possible to counter Janna to some extent and also help your team reposition on the map. Please reconsider not removing all of the enchantments, but rather find a way to fine tune them. Thanks.

Impish Yordle3 votes

Well... my flash engages with Kennen might go down the gutter without access to Distortion...

B4rtimaeus4 votes

Now you have hextech belt engages on a 30 sec cd.

ßurst4 votes

What about champs like Riven who aren't ap?

Tsunday9 votes

I mean then you have like 3 dashes so you didn't need the flash to begin with.

ßurst9 votes

that's obviously a very ignorant comment and I won't say more than her dmg is her dashes if I use all my q's to get to you I won't kill you.

Sakukei10 votes

riven is now one of the champions with the most mobility, in this game where mobility is key you can't give her more of that.

Kyunsei3 votes

Will there still be Devourer and Guinsoo change at patch 6.9 ?

Sorry to ask, but I really want to know since you mentioned it earlier on [state of the season]

RiotMeddler22 votes

Yes. Devourer's being replaced with something fairly similar to the old Madred's Bloodrazor. The double hit passive's then being shifted to Rage Blade at max stacks. Rageblade's being made more expensive and harder to stacks as a result.

Quepha13 votes

{quoted}

Yes. Devourer's being replaced with something fairly similar to the old Madred's Bloodrazor. The double hit passive's then being shifted to Rage Blade at max stacks. Rageblade's being made more expensive and harder to stacks as a result.

That sounds like you're shifting rageblade away from being a hybrid item and more towards being a pure on-hit item. It already seems weird that champs like Master Yi care about an item that's supposed to be 50% AP.

DAp6prEAUY1 votes

Hey Meddler!

Will the turret change be big enough to impact the level 2 dive on top? Will it make diving completely impossible at level 2?

RiotMeddler9 votes

I'd expect them to have a fairly noticeable impact on tower dives that early, especially if agro juggling's going on. I doubt they'll make tower dives completely impossible, we'd have to ramp towers up to one or two shot people early to make them never a thing at all. We're not looking to remove early tower diving entirely, just to make appropriately risky.

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