Possible Sona buffs that'd actually make sense

chipndip1·Aug 29, 2015·29 votes·3,768 views

Make her heal/shield either a full shield or a full heal. No more 50/50 shit. People don't understand the best means of using Sona's W because of this needlessly complicated implication of it (Right now, it's better as an over-healing shield than it is a heal until level 13 at mid-late game, then it's a decent heal with a shield tacked onto it.).
Make her shield last longer than 1.5 seconds. The duration on the shield is stupidly low. Maybe an extra second? 2.0 - 2.5 seconds isn't that bad.
Allow E to boost ally attack speed
Allow E to give Sona an enhanced AA that can sort of slow enemies without having to be on her 3rd shot (so similar to Q but without the extra blue attack thingies). The slow can be half the value of the Power Chord version's.

Don't have to do ALL these things, but at least some of them could be decent buffs to the champ without touching her damage. Thoughts?

49 Comments

Silents429Aug 29, 201518 votes

Or stop making her have everything and just give her specific strengths.

I don't get the shield addition when she could have just a better heal, I don't get the high ass poke damage she gets when she should be a champion centered around buffing her team.

Silent PaceAug 29, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Silents429Aug 29, 20157 votes

There kits aren't similar enough to where they could have the same playstyle.

Janna is a defensive support better for peeling with her tornado and ult.

Sona works best as a back line healer and aura buff for her team mates, ulting when anyone breaks the front line.

In the lane she should be a sustained lane not a poke lane.

As far as I can tell from the past 2 years of seeing Sona mains talk about her, this is generally a good playstyle for her.

-Edited for clarity.

LankPantsAug 30, 20151 votes

In the lane she should be a sustained lane not a poke lane.

It's more both.

Sustain by itself is kind of worthless, you need something to help deter trades otherwise you just wind up taking more damage than you can actually sustain through. Soraka is the exception to this where if she was balanced correctly she'd be able to function off of pure sustain just because it's so high and you can outsustain a trade.

That means on top of sustain you either need either good CC or good damage to help in trades. Good CC isn't exactly a good option for Sona (and we have one already Nami ) so that kind of just leaves decent damage.

You could theoretically load Sona's auras to output damage but then you run into the problem of balancing auras for the lane and teamfight case. Your auras are potentially two and a half times more powerful in teamfights and depending on how worthless Sona becomes as a champ and not an aura it could just be four times more powerful.

Plus there's the fact that by now Sona's poke is part of her identity, perhaps even more so than her sustain. In season two I can remember Sona being the queen of poke but she's never been the queen of sustain, that's always been Soraka.

Silents429Aug 30, 20152 votes

Poke is an identity added that no one likes on her, not Sona mains and not the people playing against her. And it's sooooo easy to take out from her kit.

Full sustain lanes work fine with long ranged marksmen or anyone going for a safer lane phase, and having 1 support for everything is dumb and why people complain about Thresh being jack of all trades, Sona brings things to the sustain area that Soraka doesn't like more reliable CC with her ult, and what could be a 2 person better heal, along with Aura buffs for movement speed and maybe they can give her an aura for some attack speed.

Damage isn't working on Sona because you can't dodge the high damage she deals forcing her to be as gimped as she is currently, short range be damned.

HellioningAug 30, 20155 votes

No, actually, I really like playing poke Sona. But thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Silents429Aug 30, 20152 votes

I didn't intend to put words into anyones mouths, I based my information off of the feedback regarding Sona that I have seen the last year or so.

LankPantsAug 30, 20151 votes

Son, you don't even play Sona how do you know anything about identity?

From what I've seen most Sona players (myself included) like poke as an identity. Stop trying to put words in our mouths because you don't like Sona's poke.

It has a lot of historical context to. I'm guessing you haven't played since the old M5 days but I'd advise you go back and look at a video of Gosu Pepper playing Sona and listen to what the commentators say. Tally the amount of times the say "poke" or "damage" when referencing Sona against the times they say "heal" or "sustain".

Damage isn't working on Sona because you can't dodge the high damage she deals forcing her to be as gimped as she is currently, short range be damned.

You can just all in her, no dodging required at all.

Silents429Aug 30, 20152 votes

I only base the poke off of the complaint threads and comments relating to Sona, I haven't played her which is why I am not the best person for balancing her.

VesarixxAug 30, 20153 votes

In the lane she should be a sustained lane not a poke lane.

Her heal costs more at level 1 than Hymn of Valor at level 3, she's a poke support with some sustain, similar to Taric being an all in support with some sustain. If you're looking for a sustain lane with some poke, Soraka is a better example.

TotalJerkAug 29, 20151 votes

Janna's kit revolves around peeling, not buffing.

ZmuecatAug 29, 20154 votes

OH GOD MAKE AN AOE BUFF CHAMPION AN AOE BUFF CHAMPION INSTEAD OF A POKEBOT? HOW DARE YOU!

I agree though. I personally enjoy the use of her stupid snuggle zones and her passive, moreso than the high-as-fuck damage from Q (though it's fun, would rather other things). I'd be more interested in some lower cooldown, briefer AoE zone buffs and more reward for landing some of her different Power Chords than just the Q version, which feels like the only one to use at the moment unless you've had time to prepare green or purple.

You don't have to actually prepare green or purple, but it feels like you are instead of how Q kind just feels right.

Rico NastyAug 29, 201512 votes

Am I the only one who thinks Sona deserves a rework? She has just such an outdated kit, and the only cc is her ult

DJ Di0Aug 29, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=karma or feed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IjyBy9rW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-29T19:37:51.724+0000)

Am I the only one who thinks Sona deserves a rework? She has just such an outdated kit, and the only cc is her ult

She already did according to Riot.

It was just lazily done though, honestly. (Similar to MF's recent changes; which is why she's getting some more changes after worlds. )

chipndip1Aug 29, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=karma or feed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IjyBy9rW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-29T19:37:51.724+0000)

Am I the only one who thinks Sona deserves a rework? She has just such an outdated kit, and the only cc is her ult

Add a snare to her Power Chord E and nerfing + moving the slow to a standard AA steroid on her E instead would be a considerable buff to the champ as is, tbh. Supports NEED hard cc in their standard kit, and Sona's state is largely due to not having it.

DJ Di0Aug 29, 20155 votes

Here's what I think should be done to her.

https://embed.gyazo.com/c84de56aa4d9356303c9bd64db752e7f.png

ZmuecatAug 29, 20154 votes

People keep saying "Make is a skillshot" but how would you make it a skillshot? It fires two things. If we just alter the projectile itself, then we're still left with the actual hard hitting part. Your options are:

Setting up a pix like situation, making it a cone, or a set "These things go here (like Ashe's Volley)", or making it one projectile. If it's one projectile, chances are that the damage will be combined, making the projectile hurt, and because it can miss it will most likely take some additional power. If you take these into account, the damage will most likely go up (or the range), you'll be hit with the AA + damage buff + potential passive. With this, she'll push more people out of lane unless she's bad (which will probably happen until her mains get used to her, cause most of them will stay with her). This isn't a good change unless you just straight up plan on nerfing her (which is an option).

To me, if you were going to change her Q to a skillshot, you might as well go through another rework with Sona and rearrange her power so it doesn't feel like it's all stuffed into her Q and R.

If you want to buff Sona as is, I, personally, say remove the AP scaling on her E and give it better per level scaling, cause right now she gets 1% a level and it doesn't even feel good to level when you're forced to. That and a slight tap on the W mana cost, 10 mana at most.

DJ Di0Aug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

People keep saying "Make is a skillshot" but how would you make it a skillshot? It fires two things. If we just alter the projectile itself, then we're still left with the actual hard hitting part. Your options are:

My idea was a mix of Glitterlance and Hextech Micro-Rockets.

Setting up a pix like situation, making it a cone, or a set "These things go here (like Ashe's Volley)", or making it one projectile. If it's one projectile, chances are that the damage will be combined, making the projectile hurt, and because it can miss it will most likely take some additional power. If you take these into account, the damage will most likely go up (or the range), you'll be hit with the AA + damage buff + potential passive. With this, she'll push more people out of lane unless she's bad (which will probably happen until her mains get used to her, cause most of them will stay with her). This isn't a good change unless you just straight up plan on nerfing her (which is an option).

To me, if you were going to change her Q to a skillshot, you might as well go through another rework with Sona and rearrange her power so it doesn't feel like it's all stuffed into her Q and R.

If you want to buff Sona as is, I, personally, say remove the AP scaling on her E and give it better per level scaling, cause right now she gets 1% a level and it doesn't even feel good to level when you're forced to. That and a slight tap on the W mana cost, 10 mana at most.

Ehh. I think you could at least do a mix; slightly nerf the ap ratio, but buff the base movement speed. (Especially for her self-speed up. )

ZmuecatAug 29, 20151 votes

I think Hextech would be a better style just cause Glitter requires something like Pix to work (unless Sona could shoot from people she enchanted, in which case that's different). Like, change how it works, similar to how you said Lee works. So you'd play the Aura, tag people, then launch projectiles towards your cursor from everyone tagged. Could be neat.

That could work, but I'm against things like AP ratios for movement speed and some other utility ratios. I think it encourages building full AP, but time and time again (for the most part) Riot has shown that most supports going in any other lane require changes to not become toxic. I'd, personally, rather just have the AP ratio cut off. Still, a halfway like what you suggested would work too.

DJ Di0Aug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think Hextech would be a better style just cause Glitter requires something like Pix to work (unless Sona could shoot from people she enchanted, in which case that's different). Like, change how it works, similar to how you said Lee works. So you'd play the Aura, tag people, then launch projectiles towards your cursor from everyone tagged. Could be neat.

That could work, but I'm against things like AP ratios for movement speed and some other utility ratios.** I think it encourages building full AP**, but time and time again (for the most part) Riot has shown that most supports going in any other lane require changes to not become toxic. I'd, personally, rather just have the AP ratio cut off. Still, a halfway like what you suggested would work too.

That's a good point, actually, and I can agree with that.

Silent PaceAug 29, 20151 votes

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ZmuecatAug 29, 20151 votes

Eh, her passive is something I take issue with. The different cooldowns for abilities makes it fairly hard to take advantage of the different passive bonuses, which is kind of upsetting. They used to all be fairly low, so if you wanted a W -> PassiveAA it didn't feel like you were purposefully not using the skill to shoot it out.

I'd much rather have a bunch of low cooldowns and use her passive better than the otherway around. It feels like 90% of the time I'm just using Q -> PassiveAA unless the brewing teamfight is 15 seconds away and I can make use of picking which one I want to lead the fight with.

LankPantsAug 30, 20151 votes

People keep saying "Make is a skillshot" but how would you make it a skillshot? It fires two things.

Maybe sounds a bit weird, but Vel'koz it.

Allow Sona to store two stacks of Q, that way you don't increase the damage of the single projectile and you create more combos for Sona players to use.

StoryDuckAug 29, 20155 votes

W is her biggest problem. It is too expensive for it's effect. You need to wait until level 16 just to make it viable as a mini item 3190 active (which at lvl 16 her W is still technically weaker but with a lower CD).

80 mana at level 1 and why doesn't it heal the 2 most damaged champions instead of herself and 1 most damaged champion?

Why does it shield damage but the heal scales on missing %HP? Isn't a shield supposed to prevent damage, but then this heal want your target to have more damage (I'm confused)?

That's too outrageous even in Taric's eyes (Just check his heal value and mana costs). I did a post on my idea about changing her W to make it's power more in line with it's cost.

Check it out: Link

Nagoh ShanAug 29, 20153 votes

Just revert the rework and go from there.

It didn't accomplish it's stated goals, and created a ton of balance issues.

The Yetii RiderAug 29, 20152 votes

Not possible. The heal is too powerful in lane if you buff it, but you can't take it away entirely because its core to her identity.
The shield duration is low to prevent it from being chained with a Locket of the Iron Solari for perma team shields.
Ardent Censer already does this.
This wouldn't help because it's still not hard CC, which supports need pre 6, and it's still putting her in hook range to use.

chipndip1Aug 29, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Not possible. The heal is too powerful in lane if you buff it, but you can't take it away entirely because its core to her identity.

The shield duration is low to prevent it from being chained with a Locket of the Iron Solari for perma team shields.

Ardent Censer already does this.

This wouldn't help because it's still not hard CC, which supports need pre 6, and it's still putting her in hook range to use.

Doesn't mean it can't be a full shield.
Most support shields (or any shield for that matter) last much longer than Sona's half shield. 2 to 2.5 seconds isn't hurting anyone. They also nerfed Locket's duration anyway.
Ardent Censor is ALSO a shitty item.
It's something at least. A movement buff coupled with a movement debuff at least adds up to something for escaping rough situations, even if only by a little. It could be possible to buff Sona's E Power Chord into a snare instead of a slow, but that'd make it easy for her to just snare shit on every 3rd cast. Rather oppressive.

The Yetii RiderAug 29, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't mean it can't be a full shield.

Most support shields (or any shield for that matter) last much longer than Sona's half shield. 2 to 2.5 seconds isn't hurting anyone. They also nerfed Locket's duration anyway.

Ardent Censor is ALSO a shitty item.

It's something at least. A movement buff coupled with a movement debuff at least adds up to something for escaping rough situations, even if only by a little. It could be possible to buff Sona's E Power Chord into a snare instead of a slow, but that'd make it easy for her to just snare shit on every 3rd cast. Rather oppressive.

The heal is core to her identity. Making it a shield takes away from what makes Sona Sona.
You can only compare it to other team-wide shields...which there is only one, Karma, and hers is an ultimate.
Doesn't matter. Riot released that item to give utility to Sona specifically, if they wanted her to give attack speed they'd buff the item.
You're paying around 180 mana per snare and still getting into hook range for it. Itd probably be alright.

chipndip1Aug 29, 20154 votes

{quoted}

The heal is core to her identity. Making it a shield takes away from what makes Sona Sona.

You can only compare it to other team-wide shields...which there is only one, Karma, and hers is an ultimate.

Doesn't matter. Riot released that item to give utility to Sona specifically, if they wanted her to give attack speed they'd buff the item.

You're paying around 180 mana per snare and still getting into hook range for it. It'd probably be alright.

I don't see how this is an argument to make. It's not even a good heal until mid-late game, assuming you're stacking ap.
I mean, it's still a weak shield with a very low active time. In comparison to ANY other shield in the game, her shield's benefit is that half of it remains as a heal on 2 people. This is incredibly weak because most other shields, even Karma's, have some sort of buff or valuable bonus effect, whether that's movement, damage, or whatever. If it wasn't weak, people would think it's a valuable move. This isn't the case. Sure, it can effect five people, and that's why I'm not calling for it to be significantly stronger. If it does stay this way as a 50:50 split, make the shield part last a bit longer.
Does matter because she shouldn't build that piece of shit item. Lich Bane completely negates any benefit it'd have for your team since it's much more damage much faster. Turret bustnig? Your W and E now add magic damage to your autos when you hit turrets and your Q can chunk a turret hard. Your adc can knock out a turret fine on their own without a wimpy 15% boost to their AA speed.
Huh...I guess there's that.

LaughingMan11Aug 29, 20152 votes

{quoted} 2) I mean, it's still a weak shield with a very low active time. In comparison to ANY other shield in the game

Id like to state Kass's shield lasts just as long, and at max rank is like 200+.3 AP, and only blocks magic damage. Probably the only useless shield in the entire game.

chipndip1Aug 29, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Id like to state Kass's shield lasts just as long, and at max rank is like 200+.3 AP, and only blocks magic damage. Probably the only useless shield in the entire game.

...That isn't ok either to be fair. >_>

1.5 seconds is a lousy time for a shield. The AMOUNT shielded is fine since he can teleport just as much as he can shield, but 1.5 seconds is stupidly low (should probably block ad too...).

VesarixxAug 30, 20152 votes

As a Sona main the thing I'd like to see added the most is the ability for E to remove slowing effects, not necessarily for the whole team, maybe just for Sona.

BooriinAug 30, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raith alghul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IjyBy9rW,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-08-30T03:57:20.205+0000)

As a Sona main the thing I'd like to see added the most is the ability for E to remove slowing effects, not necessarily for the whole team, maybe just for Sona.

Add selfish buff for Sona will buff her mid lane role even more. Mid Sona can straight build AP while support Sona have to pass sigh stone, Whatever sp Sona do, mid Sona can do that better unless they nerf POWER CHORD damage and buff her utility.

If you wanna save her support role, let slow remove effect only apply to her allies who stay inside Aura. It will add more rooms for Sona to make play and create the gap between good and bad support Sona.

VesarixxAug 30, 20151 votes

having an AOE slow removal might be a bit much though, even with a limited range

pPbwi30RyPOct 25, 20152 votes

3 is a good idea, ive been wanting 2 to happen for a long time as it's so useless.. she also needs a buff to her movement speed and needs to be less squishy due to her getting in the frontlone all the time for auras. also her earlygame sucks ass due to the q damage tiny, w heal tiny, w shield tiny and e speed tiny.

Silent PaceAug 29, 20151 votes

[deleted]

chipndip1Aug 29, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silent Pace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IjyBy9rW,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-08-29T20:37:59.592+0000)

What I would've done:

Increase movement speed Sona gains from E.(Scales 1% per level, raise the overall scaling and base movement speed given by her E so its a skill worth getting.)

Give her E an enhanced AA slow(we think alike)

Turn her Q into a skillshot, possible secondary effect could be something like: "Stuns targets in front of Sona for 0.25-1.25 seconds depending on how close they are to Sona" <- Cause sound stuns people hehe

Buff her heal, as you said no 50/50 bs remove the shield.

Not everyone in the game needs a skill shot. I don't see how it'd be able to be a skill shot seeing how it's currently 2 hits on two separate targets...

Also, I'm not saying buff the numbers on the heal. Only to make the W a shield or a heal, rather than half of either.

Silent PaceAug 29, 20152 votes

[deleted]

chipndip1Aug 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silent Pace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IjyBy9rW,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-08-29T21:01:29.958+0000)

But if you give her all these things it doesn't feel like a rework, it just feels like you're buffing her.

"Also, I'm not saying buff the numbers on the heal. Only to make the W a shield or a heal, rather than half of either." Yeah I understand and agree

I mean, the thread says "Sona buffs that'd make sense", not "possible Sona rework suggestions".

Sassmast3rAug 29, 20151 votes

I support suggestion four fully, great idea and would really help her catch people off guard. Question: Would these bolts also be homing, like the blue ones, or would you have to AA to get them to do their halvened slow?

chipndip1Aug 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I support suggestion four fully, great idea and would really help her catch people off guard. Question: Would these bolts also be homing, like the blue ones, or would you have to AA to get them to do their halvened slow?

AA them just like the Power Chord version.

1000angrybeesAug 30, 20151 votes

1.) I do personally like the idea of sona having a dual heal/shield combo, and I'm okay with them being two halves of a whole. It's a cool little ability that not really anyone else has. The thing is, they both suck, so, so hard. Bases are bad. ratios are bad. It's extremely cost ineffective to use. It feels like a waste of mana, at least until rank 5 with a lot of AP.

2.) I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR FUCKING EVER. The duration is god awful for a shield that can barely block a single auto attack. It definitely needs at least 2/2.5 seconds. (MAYBE SCALE THE DAMN DURATION WITH RANK AT LEAST? WOW WHAT AN IDEA)

3.) this isn't a terrible idea. It would give incentive to rank up her E over her Q or W, especially as a support.

4.) Yeah, I really think she needs some sort of innate CC besides having to proc her passive. its also extremely average until later ranks and- once again- with more ap.

Also, one more thing:

5.) ult CD is WAY too high. I'm not saying that it needs a super buff, but I think 130/115/100 would be a really nice way to go. Also would give it a unique little duration (at least I think no one else has that?)

BooriinAug 30, 20151 votes

I prefer to buff her POWER CHORD - DIMINUENDO from W (Since riot nerfed STACCATO), make it reduce 30% damage instead 20%. Give Sona more meaningful choice rather than spam Q all day - Make W only shield allies will kill Sona's identify while make it heal only will let her dominate Aram or play passive in lane phase.
I would love to see her shield duration increase to 2.5s as well
That would be awesome, I love that. It would be quiet fun to build on her
This one is great too but it will make Sona gameplay feel less difficult since she can punish her opponents if they misposition or help Sona caught opponent easier. I prefer Sona work for her slow and make decision for her POWER CHORD, add slow on her E just make TEMPO feel less worth to stack.

AURAS = BUFF POWER CHORD = DEBUFF

You can nerf her STACCATO to 30% bonus damage if you feel those straight buff from 1)2) and 3) are too much

EDIT: Sona's poke playstyle is actually her identify, please don't change it to skillshot, it would ruin her.

SSJTribeAug 30, 20151 votes

It would be quiet fun

is that a mute joke?

Lea SalongaAug 30, 20151 votes

I have a few buff ideas that doesn't involve any number changes to Sona

Make it so that **the target that is healed by Aria of Perseverance (W) receives the shield **bonus from the aura. If they step into the aura, then the shield is refreshed (instead of stacking). I guess this could make up for the 1.5 second duration of the shield
Similarly, her E will select the champion closest to your cursor within range of Song of Celerity (E) to receive the movement speed boost without touching her aura. If they step into the aura, then the movement speed boost will be refreshed.
Her Q can be given the same sort of treatment I guess, but it's the most satisfying ability in her kit. I don't think it needs any more boosts.

DrinkurMilkshakeAug 30, 20151 votes

How to make Sona better without breaking her:

Decrease the downtime between abilities so Sona's more interesting to play. Nerf her Q's damage, make the aura part of it last a bit longer. Increase W's base heal, remove the shield from healing target unless they are already at full health. (keep it on others in aura range).

That's it. She should be an Aura based support champion... this is her identity.

chipndip1Aug 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How to make Sona better without breaking her:

Decrease the downtime between abilities so Sona's more interesting to play. Nerf her Q's damage, make the aura part of it last a bit longer. Increase W's base heal, remove the shield from healing target unless they are already at full health. (keep it on others in aura range).

That's it. She should be an Aura based support champion... this is her identity.

You can't nerf Q's damage because it's her ONLY attack. Making the blue aura last longer doesn't do much of anything if you nerf the damage on it (Let's be honest, you're talking about the AA steroid, which IS the aura, not the bolts that do very little damage. This would be a flat nerf).

You can't remove the shield from the healed targets because she'd never get a shield herself + she's always in the range of her shield. This change'd make no sense because there'd be two conflicting instances for when you'd use W: Some people would block damage and some others would heal damage.

Pika310Oct 25, 20151 votes

Q's damage is already tied for the lowest base damage on a spell in the entire support class. If it was nerfed any more, even by 1 point, it would be outclassed by literally EVERY SINGLE damage spell on support champions.

SnazzyTheMisterAug 30, 20151 votes

i said this in another "buff sona thread": make her power chord refund some mana (so it sorta refunds the spell you used to get it as well as giving you a reason not to hold onto it for to long) and change her w so that her heal scales a bit better and her shield has stronger base values (so you can max it early for a stronger shield if you need it and the heal feels nicer late game if you are building ap)

sona is in a delicate spot cus if she gets buffed to much she becomes really oppressive but with her power is in her auras she can feel weak at times.