Malzahar still needs major changes

Malicious Metal·Aug 21, 2017·16 votes·1,418 views

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33778590/malzahar.jpg

Because every time he's "good" he's oppressive as hell.

Riot's reasoning for reworking him was to make him more interactive in lane.... by giving him a spellshield.

He's an ancient, archaic design that didn't get the VGU he'd need to be a healthy champion but simply got more gimmicks loaded into his kit. And he's back at terrorizing SoloQ.

And no, you can't pull the "Old Malz had a 53% win rate too!" because back then his pick rate was hilariously low.

Malzahar needs changes, a VGU preferrably as his visuals are outdated and he can't be balanced with only small tweaks to his kit.

50 Comments

AhristocatsAug 21, 20176 votes

what do you expect him to be when he has a point and click 2.5 sec suppression in a game where cc is balanced around skillshots

i wish league had mostly point and click cc with bkb and linken sphere

PennsAug 21, 20176 votes

Ryze Fuk dat shit m8

AhristocatsAug 21, 20175 votes

Lulu

:^)

Mister DarkAug 22, 20171 votes

A linken sphere and bkb would be amazing in this game, dota=balance but outdated, league=broken but new

KONO RUBICK DAAug 22, 20171 votes

linken's sphere? in league?

what exactly do you want it to do when most spells are skillshots

linken's sphere blocks a targeted spell every 13 sec, or on an ally. it's basically a better banshee except it only works on point and click spells, in dota it was created to balance point and click spells.

Serika ZeroAug 21, 20175 votes

"back then" malzahar was RISKING SOMETHING BY PUSHING THE WAVE, which his kit kind of forced him to do gee, i wonder why the new one is an issue

TheHappyReaperzAug 21, 20173 votes

Because they removed the free minion, but kept the point and click ranged suppression?

Serika ZeroAug 21, 20173 votes

the point and click ranged suppression also suppresses malzahar himself and it could easily be stopped using TEAMWORK, yes, i know this sounds absurd in a team game

but with the spellshield, its more difficult to stop his suppression and his laning phase is more safe ..... that's the thing before, if you played malzahar, your laning phase, albeit strong was not safe at all. You got no mobility and no cc pre6, even after 6 your only cc would suppress you as well allowing the enemy to easily damage you

TheHappyReaperzAug 21, 20173 votes

In a 1v1, you cannot keep Malzahar from suppressing you. During that 1v1, it doesn't matter that he is suppressed during the channel, becuase you can't do anything to him. It doesn't matter if it is a team game, you will be without teammates for several portions of the game.

Serika ZeroAug 21, 20173 votes

its a team game, the game is never 1v1 unless you are a top laner that's split pushing, even then you need to wave in and out of split pushing and hide in the fog of war from time to time

you "can't do anything to him" in the 1v1. And he "can't do anything to you in the 2v1". Like, that was the trade off. Meaning, he would be VERY VULNERABLE to support roams, jungle ganks. You are probably "alone" only for like 10 minutes in the entire game. Otherwise there's always going to be a team mate in the proximity. And not to mention that you can also COMMUNICATE with your team and ask for help in like a minute or two when you plan to engage on malzahar....

And that's the laning phase with malzahar, or at least, was. Now its safer because your team mates need to use more time or more skills to interrupt him. There's a reason there was no malzahar in the lcs before rework, in any roles. That's because, the champion has RISKS, big risks he had to take to be played. And those risks were not worth it.

Beacon AcademyAug 22, 20173 votes

I didn't realize it was common for old Malzahar to get 30+ kills every game with his uber broken suppress that one shots people with no resistance every 48-80 seconds...

Oh wait it wasn't a thing.

QSS Negating Suppress Maw Negating Burst Team CC'ing or killing Malzahar Spell Shields (Morgana/Banshee's) Throwing a stun or knock-up/back at Malzahar right as he is beginning his Ult (Annie/Kassadin/Syndra/Etc.)

If you know an enemy has a tool, use that fucking beautiful brain you were born with and play around it in order to counter/mitigate it

TheHappyReaperzAug 22, 20171 votes

Why do people always assume that I'm saying Malz's ult is OP? Its not, I'm not saying that it is. It never was, and isn't today. That doesn't change the fact that it is the most bullshit, unfun, stupid thing in his kit. And, my good sir, what is the way for a champions to counter Malzahar in lane? How are you to play around his flash + R? Not approach the minions? Sit under tower? Pray tell, my good sir.

deadlychuckAug 22, 20171 votes

It only became unfun, when everyone started playing champions which had a stupid amount of their kit budget investing to tools which forced them dance around inside of it's range.

malzahar's hardest counters were longer range, low tempo mages. As opposed to assassins which heavily counter those types. He was an assassin assassin which lost to mages. His ult and design weren't a problem, they were a stopper to make sure that too much weight didn't get put on one side of the scale.

And riot hates when things are designed to make sure that the devs don't add things to the game that are incompatible with the core mechanical design of the game. Like changing the game from a numerical puzzle into a game of statistical probability. You don't want to make the game too much about all or nothing, landing skillshots and darting around to decrease the probability of them landing, because that design is incompatible with the fundamental designs of the 3 primary stats and their secondary stats.

If riot wants to make the game that they're trying to force into league of legends, they need to start over from scratch with a new title or game mode which changes literally everything about the stats, items, and champion scalings.

Big LincolnAug 22, 20171 votes

delayed CC or good predictions lets you cancel his shit in a one on one

TheHappyReaperzAug 22, 20171 votes

I'm thinking of delayed CC, and all I've got is Swain. And maybe Ekko. Regardless, there are 136 other champs I could be playing that lack the delayed CC. Plus, it won't even matter if you have delayed CC, or really good predictions, since his passive is a spell-shield.

Big LincolnAug 22, 20171 votes

I've interrupted it 1v1 with Draven E, Darius E, Cho Q and sej ult in the past

deadlychuckAug 22, 20171 votes

Actually it's very easy to stop malz from suppressing you in a 1v1 on a lot of champions. Anyone with some kind of skillshot CC or delayed CC could easily activate it during the time between using W and starting R. Which would generally interrupt the ult as soon as it started.

waiting for WoWAug 21, 20173 votes

Win rates alone don't tell the whole story although I do agree that Malz is borderline OP right now. Like Aurelion Sol has had the top 1-3 highest winrates in mid since his release but no one calls him OP because he isn't.

Malzahar does really badly in this tank hard engage meta though and he is doing worse with adaptive helm. Like he is really good early to mid game and in lane but if he is still carrying late game your team is doing something wrong. Your team should be full of adaptive helms and QSS by that point.

JJI744Aug 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Malzahar does really badly in this tank hard engage meta though and he is doing worse with adaptive helm. Like he is really good early to mid game and in lane but if he is still carrying late game your team is doing something wrong. Your team should be full of adaptive helms and QSS by that point.

Malz is considered one of the best midlaners for dealing with tanks. More-so now that they can't engage onto him due to his passive.

waiting for WoWAug 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Malz is considered one of the best midlaners for dealing with tanks. More-so now that they can't engage onto him due to his passive.

item 3194 item 3140 item 3800

So that is why he is picked so much in pro games right? Because you know you can't just aa him once to lock him out of his passive right? Unlike Banshees Veil which actually blocks an entire ability before it goes on CD.

SujirenAug 21, 20174 votes

Stop comparing everything to pro scene, god I hate people who compare solo q to proscene. Yasuo till his nerf was destroying solo q, yet how often was he picked in lcs? Likewise rumble is picked in like half of the lcs games so he must be a pretty good champion right? And yet I see rumble once every 100 ranked games.

Craft ZeppelinAug 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Stop comparing everything to pro scene, god I hate people who compare solo q to proscene. Yasuo till his nerf was destroying solo q, yet how often was he picked in lcs? Likewise rumble is picked in like half of the lcs games so he must be a pretty good champion right? And yet I see rumble once every 100 ranked games.

I get massively triggered with dual anti-material rifles when somebodys says "rumble jungle is a troll pick" in a RANKED game.

EedatAug 21, 20172 votes

Who cares about pro play? 99.999% of the community will never play in a LCS level game so why would we ever balance around it? It's entertaining to watch but if history has taught us anything is that the game turns to complete shit when balanced around it.

ARAM ZooKeeperOct 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Who cares about pro play? 99.999% of the community will never play in a LCS level game so why would we ever balance around it? It's entertaining to watch but if history has taught us anything is that the game turns to complete shit when balanced around it.

Amen.

Obviously kids practicing 12 hours a day together will be able to negate certain champs. I'm not sure what that has to do with 90% of the playerbase that just wants a fun & fair game.

I don't care if a champion sucks in pro play, if he has double the kit/stats as my champ that doesn't make sense.

Big LincolnAug 21, 20173 votes

malzahar has been through enough, let him rest for a while

fééd l0rdAug 21, 20171 votes

lol

Wet DrymanAug 21, 20171 votes

But uncle Lincoln he is a mage scum, you forgot?

Big LincolnAug 22, 20171 votes

anti rework is more important than anti mage

SujirenAug 21, 20172 votes

Don't forget that he has basically 0 counters in lane,he is the new yorick of midlane. Malzahar walks into the bar there is no counter.

waiting for WoWAug 21, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Don't forget that he has basically 0 counters in lane,he is the new yorick of midlane. Malzahar walks into the bar there is no counter.

If this were actually true Malzahar would have been pick/banned in every pro game considering he has been changed for quite a while now. The same people that whine about Malz in lane, are the same people that never target voidlings or never juke malefic visions, or never burn off his passive before using big cooldowns or all ins.

SujirenAug 21, 20171 votes

Okay you do all that, but he still free farms, because he outpushes 90% of the champions mid, and if his jungler decides to gank you, your pretty much guaranteed dead from point and click surpress into jungler cc.

fééd l0rdAug 21, 20171 votes

Malzahar is a fair champ right :D HAHAHAHA

deadlychuckAug 22, 20171 votes

Well he use to be before the rework...

He was basically non-existent above gold and hadn't seen the LCS since season 1.

hhaavviikkAug 21, 20172 votes

I just wish they would revert him, just W is a pathetic excuse of a ability, all it exists for is pushing the wave because any and all AOE 1 shots the voidlings, you can have out 40 voidlings and 1 vel`koz W destroys them all it's pointless

Beacon AcademyAug 21, 20173 votes

People did take Malzahar's old W pool for granted.

Null Zone used to be for:

Slowly poking enemy laners in lane along with their minions so they wouldn't get too alarmed before 6
Providing a dance floor for you and your Voidling when that Lee Sin decides to jump on you in the middle of your minion wave
Providing a large slow area (With Rylai's) that dealt large amount of damage late game to deter people from chasing your team, to provide a sunfire cape like effect for your front line, to zone people away from their own tower while sieging it, to pick off enemies with slivers of health via near instant damage after cast, to catch fleeing enemies with its 800 cast range so you could catch up to them, Etc Etc.

Now Null Zone is... Only to be used in combination with your Ult... Cause thats all Riot or the general public believed it was for...

Granted you'd notice it most often pre-rework while you're standing still in it for 2.5s rather than during any other of its uses.

A Bad NasusAug 21, 20172 votes

I really liked using that ability especially when JarvanIV was on my team.

deadlychuckAug 22, 20171 votes

In fact, the very high contrast particle effect actually made it great for zoning. Even though it wouldn't do any noticeable damage by simply walking through it, people would always avoid it due to "don't stand in the fire" mentality that's been drilled into every hot bar RPG player's mind.

I know for a fact that, that even diamond level players would actively avoid the null zone, just due to psychological reaction that the big purple thing was bad.

fééd l0rdAug 21, 20171 votes

One zed q somehow isn't able to dish them all out tho

RainfallAug 21, 20171 votes

riot gave him sick ap ratios because they did not want another malzahar support disaster to come. there is no way his R can work as a skill shot since his entire kit revolves around him refreshing his e multiple times with his q and r. his voidlings are really slow and die easily but theyre good for pushing,thats what i think riot is going to nerf theyre going to change voidlings damage to infected minions to 200% instead of 300%

Blade of JusticAug 21, 20171 votes

As long as he keeps his point-and-click suppression and his E, you can do whatever you want with his kit.

AwesomeGuyDjAug 21, 20171 votes

his point and click is the problem though...

Blade of JusticAug 21, 20174 votes

{quoted}

his point and click is the problem though...

Akali Ahri Fizz Fiora Kayn Leblanc MasterYi Nasus Renekton Rengar Riven Talon Teemo Tristana Tryndamere Twitch Vayne Warwick XinZhao Yasuo Zed

That's funny... because from where I'm standing, it's the solution.

A Bad NasusAug 21, 20171 votes

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33779543/twisted.png

Devilreaper XIIIAug 21, 20171 votes

why complain about malzahar?

leblanc is 129047150515035085155685 times worse O.o

she stuns you for a million years does twice as much damage, and has a getaway @.@ she on par with malz kit wise but she definitely has a better wave clear, and outdamages malzahar.

even if she has a skillshot the reward for it is waaaaaay higher :/ i mean shes so broken riot even calls her an assassin .o.

Beacon AcademyAug 22, 20171 votes

Old Malzahar was Mage/Assassin tho

Old/New LB will be able to kill a squishy, but so would Old Malz

Old/New LB might kill a tank, but Old Malzahar would definitely kill a tank

TeemoXNidaleeAug 21, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IfBAPK9A,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-08-21T10:36:25.088+0000)

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33778590/malzahar.jpg

Because every time he's "good" he's oppressive as hell.

Riot's reasoning for reworking him was to make him more interactive in lane.... by giving him a spellshield.

He's an ancient, archaic design that didn't get the VGU he'd need to be a healthy champion but simply got more gimmicks loaded into his kit. And he's back at terrorizing SoloQ.

And no, you can't pull the "Old Malz had a 53% win rate too!" because back then his pick rate was hilariously low.

Malzahar needs changes, a VGU preferrably as his visuals are outdated and he can't be balanced with only small tweaks to his kit.

Janna was much better stats than Malzahar, she is much more oppressive then.

SalsonAug 21, 20171 votes

And no, you can't pull the "Old Malz had a 53% win rate too!" because back then his pick rate was hilariously low.

He was always cancerous, nothing changed.

Well prepare to get downvoted by a shitload of people who want to climb without any mechanics whatsoever. And of course the bunch who got PTSD when assassins were viable for 2 weeks.

CalabokAug 22, 20171 votes

I agree. nerf Malz

deadlychuckAug 22, 20171 votes

Major changes. Like a whole new rework. That returns his old passive. Separates his null zone and his R. While also giving back his AD physical damage scaling on voidlings. Turning them back into bulky minions instead of a swarm.

But you'll probably need to increase the base damage on E a little now that voidlings can't be summoned every time you cast E for wave clear, and you'd probably want to increase the CD on Q, then just scale it's base damage and silence up proportionally.

Yeah, that'd probably be a very solid rework.

KompleteOct 19, 20171 votes

I think his R should be a skill shot like fizz's R, increase the AOE range a bit and give a bit of burst before the DOT kicks in, so even if the 'small hit box suppress' misses at least the larger AOE will refresh the E and offer a bit of instant damage to whoever it hits.