Ivern & Senna synergy?

Elite4Runner··8 votes·7,723 views

Im actually not sure if this would work and i'm hoping someone has, or would test it for me.

The theory is that Senna still gains wraith drops off of camps that Ivern sets free. .. I can't think of a reason she wouldn't.

The reason this would be a good pairing is because Ivern can have one of the fastest clearing paths of any jungler.

The Path You will need a ward and Teleport / Smite. (I take Unsealed Spellbook so you can swap Teleport out for more useful spells later.) Ivern doesn't need a leash so Senna goes into lane while Ivern gets set up. Ivern places a ward near the bottom most camp, late enough that it will be there by the time he has finished placing a grove on the last camp. Grove the bottom most camp, grove and smite the next buff moving up the map, and then the remaining four camps moving up the map. You will probably need to wait a few seconds for the last camp. After the top most camp has been groved, Teleport to your ward. Senna should meet you there. Groves should mature before or as you reach them on the same path up the map. Scuttle crab should also be spawning by the time you reach the top jungle and you should be able to grove and smite it.

This should give Senna 6 guaranteed wraiths, and chances are very good for her to get another off of small raptors, and depending on how krugs are calculated, maybe another there.

That's 6 - 7, 8 .. maybe 9 if you're lucky, free wraiths within roughly a minute. Just from following Ivern through your jungle.

12 Comments

FlameHalbrdOkido3 votes

This is the kinda stuff i like, i didn't think about that. Next time im jg and i see a senna ill go iven and check this out, but they might treat monsters like minions so there's only a 20% chance she gets a ghoul

Elite4Runner1 votes

Small monsters are treated like melee / caster minions where they have a chance to drop a wraith. There are 5 small raptors. With a 20% drop chance each small raptor, she SHOULD get a wraith from one of them (but it is still possible she doesn't) Wolves don't have the best probability of dropping.

The biggest unknown to me would be Krugs. I believe if each Medium Krug and Small Krug is spawned and killed in front of her, it gives a chance. With Ivern clearing all Krugs at once, it's possible that the calculation might only be based on the single Medium Krug, and not take the other two Medium Krug and the six Small Krugs into account. If it does take those into account, you're looking at nine 20% chances of getting a wraith.

Large monsters are treated like cannon minions and champions. A wraith is guaranteed when they die. Gromp, Blue Sentinel, Large Wolf, Large Raptor, Red Brambleback, and Large Krug Epic monsters grant 2 wraiths.

AIQ1 votes

[deleted]

Elite4Runner1 votes

Genuinely, thank you for the well thought out response

{quoted}

While that is cool and probably works here are some things to consider.

Bot lane Pressure lost: Shes not there so it's very unlikely that the enemy will not threaten or kill bot.

This is true, and I did think about it. It would really be best if the bot lane player is aware of the strategy as well. They will need to play more passively while Senna is gone. The good news is, THEY will get more experience advantage over the enemy lane while Senna is gone. This could actually be an advantage, especially if the bot laner plays a mage, which also has good synergy with Senna being a physical damage dealer.

EXP: She will lose very valuable EXP about 2 waves worth for being gone for 1 minute.

Likewise, I agree this is also an issue. The purpose here is to get an aggressive start. Roaming with Ivern to collect wraiths would lead to a spike in AD and place her closer to her first 20 wraith milestone when she returns. Also, when they end up top side, they may have an opportunity to gank top or mid together, leading to more wraiths and kill gold.

Other Wraiths: Senna gets Wraiths for being in lane as well so she is losing those for the gain of others.

This might take place during the first cannon wave. Senna will likely have got 2 wraiths from minions and as many as she can from harassing. She might miss out on 3, maybe 4 wraiths at most from minions. If she wouldn't have got any less than 4 wraiths from harassing enemy champion in that time, she will be coming out ahead in this area.

Support item: Not stacking/poking with your support item will hurt a lot.

fair ..

Jungle side Invades: Ivern might get invaded. Should that happen he'd be level 1. Most Junglers ward early so they will know that something is up if they see a level 1 Ivern at 2:30-3 minutes.

In my experience, Ivern is very healthy after the teleport. Having Senna with him would likely turn an invasion into a kill. As for the grove placement, .. Ask top and / or mid to ward top side jungle entrances around 1:20 and you'll know if they're invading. More people should really be doing this anyways. Knowing they're in your jungle means your lane can collapse if they have priority, and they get a kill or at least waste the enemy jungler's time, putting them behind.

Also, Ivern is level 2 after smiting the first buff.

Lane Pressure: Counter ganking or scuttle is not an option for Ivern and thus the 9 wraiths surrender his lead to the jungler.

This is just wrong, .. Ivern has the easiest time of taking scuttle crab and invading when he has smite.

The first scuttle crab spawns along the route and he will have smite off cooldown with no other camps to smite.

An Alternate route that mitgates the cost a bit is.

As for all of this, it might be a better compromise, but I feel like there would be a lot of time wasted. I'm looking at pulling Senna out of bot lane for a quick power spike and applying potential pressure on another lane, then she can go back and do whatever she wants.

A single clear path allows Ivern's whole jungle to be completely cleared at once. He will be free to gank any lane, even returning to bot lane WITH Senna.

AIQ1 votes

[deleted]

Elite4Runner1 votes

I guess an important factor i forgot to mention is that when I have done this before I had a item 1039 item 2031 and the first Biscuit from Biscuit Delivery appeared in my inventory before I was done placing all of the groves.

I did this path from top to bottom in one of my attempts (wasn't intending on doing this with the support that time) and I was able to cut down the pathway behind wolves and blue into the river to catch the Scuttle Crab AT SPAWN. I did also use Q to close a little distance between camps, which might make a little difference as well.

AIQ1 votes

[deleted]

Elite4Runner1 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnnWhI6pCLc&feature=youtu.be

I actually decided to just make this video after writing the following response, so they might be slightly different.

Yeah, I think you are misunderstanding me. Here is exactly what I do. I even tested it in practice tool to get it exactly right.

Runes Unsealed Spellbook Tier 1: Doesn't matter for this, but I go with free boots Tier 2: Biscuit Delivery Tier 3: Timewarp Tonic Secondary Both preferential. The only noteworthy rune here could be Relentless Hunter, gives you 10 out of combat movement speed, but I don't even think that makes enough of a difference to matter. For clarity, this I used it this run through.

Starting Summoner Spells summoner 12 summoner 11 Starting Items item 1039 item 2031 item 3340 Place your ward by Krugs after 1:20. You can place it in the tri-bush by bot to give them some vision control and watch for invades, but the farther from Krugs, the farther you need to walk after teleporting, AND if the enemy is close enough or has vision close enough to / in that bush, they will see the teleport.

You can honestly grove Red or Krugs first The delayed spawn on Krugs makes it so that the time it takes to grove Red and walk to Krugs still gives you a second or two before Krugs spawn. I would still recommend you Smite Red second so you get health back from Smite, then Red buff and hp5 can work to restore health while you walk to Raptors. Clearing Red level 2 Grove Raptors Around the time you're done groving Raptors you will receive a Biscuit. Do not use it until after you grove Wolves. Remember Biscuit restores missing health and mana, so you want it to be as low as possible. Grove Wolves Consume Biscuit Grove Blue Walk to Gromp By the time you get to Gromp, you should have about 10 seconds to wait for your passive. Your Senna should probably be on her way to Krugs. (Didn't have a Senna in my practice tool) Grove Gromp Teleport to your Ward Clear Krugs Clear Raptors. At this point your Smite should be back up

I walked through the top side river path toward Scuttle. I was in the pixel bush in time to see it spawn.

Grove and Smite Scuttle This gives you Level 3 Clear your last 3 camps because they will all have fully matured groves by the time you have cleared Scuttle. Finishing the last camp will give you level 4 at approximately 3:40


I obviously can't account for any situations where you're invaded or anything that might cause a delay.

I would recommend avoiding the use of abilities because that might delay your ability to grove your last camp.

Of course, this was a red side start, I think you can figure out how to translate this into a blue side start.

Even if this doesn't work to boost Senna, it is still a good clear path for Ivern.

AIQ1 votes

[deleted]

Elite4Runner1 votes

I think part of the time difference with me getting to Scuttle a little earlier this time was that I didn't use any abilities until after I took Scuttle. I was trying to cut some time by using Q on wolves in previous runs and that cut my mana pool down enough that I had to wait a few more seconds to grove Gromp. As I mentioned, I have done this in the opposite direction before and I think I got that idea because I had Blue buff, so mana wasn't really an issue. With the potions, Biscuit, and Timewarp Tonic, health should be fine too. Perhaps Blue start would just be preferred over Red in general.

Ultimately, you might be right about this not being worth it. I would still really like to try it out eventually. I have a friend that likes playing Senna and he seems interested in trying it but he couldn't be online tonight.

14daysuspensionk1 votes

What about the Ivern + Rengar combo?

Kiwi Lemonade1 votes

While an interesting concept I don't think it would ever be competitively viable. Its only slightly more wraiths than laning Senna gets, she'll be underleveled, and the bot laner left behind will also fall behind, inevitably. She's just not fast enough to get this all done in a feasible time frame.

Bard's entire concept is pretty much what this plan describes however: 1.) Doesn't require a specific jungle, 2.) Gets movement speed and XP from chimes, 3.) Only leaves lane when appropriate.

While it is good gold value for Senna I think the overall gold lost bot side (even if your laner doesn't die, he will lose CS naturally over time especially if the other duo is smart with zoning, they can even zone him/her off experience thus making solo exp negligible) will outweigh the value Senna is getting.

Overall cool idea though.

More from Gameplay

More by Elite4Runner