Is there really any point to have Riven's E shield scale 1 to 1 with Bonus AD?

Ragnaveil··3 votes·1,095 views

tl;dr of the post for those who dont want to read the entire post: E shield is a bit powerful, so lower the ratio on E instead of weakening the base.

Why Ask This? Valor possesses a short cooldown (3.6, but shield persists for 1.5, making it have a CD window of 2.1) with 40% CDR, which is not hard to get considering she always goes Sorcery to get the free 10% at level 9. If she gets enough AD she barely takes damage with this shield as she heals all of the damage done to her back with her Death's Dance. This is due to the fact she builds a LW item, Leth Item (Ghostblade) and Black Cleaver, meaning she just ignores a good amount of armor to give her a lot of healing from her damage. Also Death's Dance's healing from damage is 33% effective on AOE, which her main damage spells all do. Count the fact Spear might get added to SR in the preseason, and you have the makings of a god in the right hands or maybe anyone at that point. The base shield amount is actually balanced imo, as its not extremely high and its a shield that wont have any heal shield buffing items affecting it because Riven builds none of those items.

This "should" be addressed in the preseason or at some point, because its pretty obnoxious if you smash her and all she has to do is get 40% CDR and 3 AD items and she just kills anyone, including the fed person who smashed her while soaking a lot of damage. Considering she should be mainly balanced around her mains since her playrate outside of her mains is likely as low as old Aatrox, her current winrate strikes me odd when I recall Riven "mains" complaining their champ is too weak and needed buffs not too long ago. Her only "true" counter is CC, which obviously made her weak in the Tank Meta. However, we don't live in such a meta anymore, yet she gained more power despite not being the target of any power changes (Other than a health regen buff and Ult cdr buff). Some of the changes she got in the old system were balanced, where as with the new system, these changes are now (or might be) a little bit over the top. This is not an issue that is limited to just Riven: This affects MOST of the champions that existed in the old system because almost all ratios remained the same, but champ base stats were changed, some items were changed, and keystones are more dynamic than they were in the old system. Later down the road it will be easier to judge what is weak and what isn't with this new system.

Suggestion And Some Math. The shield should honestly have the ratio be lowered from 100% bonus AD to 75% bonus AD or 70% bonus AD. Why do I bring up the ratio and not the base? Because of this: (Used Practice Tool Lv 18 Riven 40% CDR (20 Min in) since the ratio is based on Bonus AD, meaning the base ad she gains doesn't affect her E and other spells, minus the passive which scales with % AD.) Full Build- item 3812 item 3142 item 3071 item 3033 item 3026 item 3047 3 Items- item 3812 item 3142 item 3071 item 3047 Everything: Full Build /w Conqueror and R- 667 shield 3 Items /w Conqueror and R- 529 shield Minus R: Full Build /w Conqueror- 572 shield 3 Items /w Conqueror- 457 shield Minus both Conqueror and R: Full Build- 537 shield 3 Items- 422 shield

The Purpose of this Post Why I want to post this is because something like this just flies below the radar when people mainly talk about her being balanced or unbalanced, as her ult , Q, or damage in general are the main points always talked about. Sure, I have Yasuo as my highest mastery champ, but if you look at what I've played the entire year you'd find a lot less Yasuo than you'd expect. To quote Doublelift from his very popular video, The Downsides of a Constantly Evolving Game, "I think there should be more of a focus on buffing what's weak then cutting down what's strong". Why does this point apply to this post? Because everything that was strong against her was cut down via nerfs, while she got "buffs" from said changes. Also in the buff whats weak nerf whats strong aspect, nothing on her kit screams weak other than her lane phase, where she has long cooldowns. She's meant to be weak in the early game, and strong in the mid to late game. I'm not asking for that to be nerfed, what i'm asking to be nerfed is what is strong, which is the E's AD ratio shield. A self generated shield that also is a dash with scaling based on bonus AD being 1 to 1 ratio just seems a little out of hand. Any other type of castable shield doesn't particularly run on a high damage stat ratio (AP shields are somewhat high in certain cases, but for some supports, its due to the lack of AP they would have) or possesses a low cooldown such as Riven's. The shield currently allows her to build full on damage with one or two defensive items (Mercs and Maw for AP, Tabis and GA for AD, and Mercs or Tabis with GA for mixed/core) and not feel threatened at all, where as any counter or damage dealer that goes against her has to either be able to burst her to death before she kills them or be generally scared of her for the rest of the match because their damage just doesn't stick.

Finally, if you think i'm posting this because i'm salty that I "can't" beat Riven or can't play her, then go ahead and think that, as that is far from the actual reason for the post. I really have no interest in playing Riven, nor do I have the speed and skills for her (personal issue), even though her kit is fun to play. I had Riven as my most killed last year at 999 kills (I find it funny to this day that I killed that many), so i'm sure i'm able to, ya know, beat her. I do hope people take this post seriously, and if people have better ideas or suggestions to tackle this issue, by any means comment below.

EDIT: Looked over the data to make sure all was correct, and realized I was using the wrong stat for the counter issue, her counters currently sit roughly 50 55% atm. The thing I was looking at was general winrate of the champion possibly. I removed the sentences about that since they now were not needed and were incorrect.

12 Comments

MrFawknSunshine2 votes

but you can type a damn novel . tl;dr

Ragnaveil1 votes

Just added it. Is there really any issue with typing something of this size honestly? If there's stuff that can be removed, then feel free to tell me if you want to. I'll try to work this size down till it seems okay.

MrFawknSunshine2 votes

{quoted}

Just added it. Is there really any issue with typing something of this size honestly? If there's stuff that can be removed, then feel free to tell me if you want to. I'll try to work this size down till it seems okay.

its just no one is gonna take the time to read it

Ragnaveil1 votes

'tis a shame since I spent a lot of time in practice tool getting the numbers and stuff, using experience, etc.

AnAggravatedPimp2 votes

Damn I miss season 3. Riven's 2.5 second shield was was awesome.

Anyways, this is a bookmark while I read that WALL OF TEXT

AnAggravatedPimp2 votes

Skimmed it. This is an "I hate Riven" post, circa 2013. OP brings up that they've killed Riven 999 times and that they're so good against her, that her mains were crying for buffs, and they use late game, full build stats as their measuring point which ignores enemy builds and champions.

To answer the OP though, Riven has a "strong" shield because without it she melts like butter in a volcano. She has struggled against most meta relevant top laners for the last 2 years with both Garen and Quinn becoming top picks for top lane and Renekton still dumpstering on her in 80% of match ups.

She has the shield because she's really squishy and needs it not get immediately chunked.

Ragnaveil1 votes

But on such a low cooldown? I don't really see eye to eye why it needs a low cooldown other than being mobility. The shield is hard to burst through effectively with any melee unless they can somehow kill Riven faster than she can kill them. And a reason why I brought this up is because we are slowly getting closer to preseason, meaning closer to knowing if Spear of Shojin makes it to SR. If it does, it will likely become a core item on Riven since she can use all the effects and use them effectively.

AnAggravatedPimp4 votes

{quoted}

But on such a low cooldown? I don't really see eye to eye why it needs a low cooldown other than being mobility. The shield is hard to burst through effectively with any melee unless they can somehow kill Riven faster than she can kill them. And a reason why I brought this up is because we are slowly getting closer to preseason, meaning closer to knowing if Spear of Shojin makes it to SR. If it does, it will likely become a core item on Riven since she can use all the effects and use them effectively.

At Rank 1 it's 10 seconds and will, at best, tank one auto attack before it's duration runs out. It's also never maxed first so it won't be until at least lvl 8, around 1.5 items under good circumstances, until it's cooldown reaches a point that it effects the game.

Late game how ever it needs a short cooldown because again, Riven melts like butter in a volcano. She will normally be against massive amounts of burst and if she didn't hav some way to survive it, she'd die immediately. It's why the shield duration was nerfed in season 3/4, she can't just shield and be fine, she has to identify damage coming and actively decide to block that damage or take the hit and block another bigger hit.

Arguing about Spear is arguing in a vacuum. It would be good on plenty of AD casters, same way Brutalizer(RIP) was a pretty big staple buy on anyone that wanted to go Ghostblade or Cleaver. It gave lot's of good stats for fairly cheap.

All that said, Renekton, Garen, Quinn, Darius. Four champions that can and will wreck Riven's shit in 90% of her matches against her, two of those champs being juggernauts that can deal equal damage to her and a team while being hella tanky and then Renekton who's very existence negates Riven in lane. Quinn just pokes her constantly, if Riven wants to gets close she'll need to use her mobility and therefore waste damage/defense.

Mordepool1 votes

Always pissed me off as a Morde main. When I Fight her 1v1 they realize that they are dead and Run like a coward dashing away. When I Ult them at that moment of Disengagement. She will get away since she just spams that shield.

Literally makes my "Ultimate" damage fucking useless

Kazekiba1 votes

Petition to make Morde's Ult have the Irelia treatment (300% damage to shields) with the VGU next year

Mordepool1 votes

I wouldn't go that far. A 10 second Dot should have some counterplay like shields or healing I'm just letting everyone know my feeling of disgust and frustration

Saezio1 votes

Rivens take transcendence ? Never knew. BTW making an argument against riven and taking into account a scenario when her E is maxed with 40% cdr is moronic because Riven's late game is bad anyway. I can understand if you complained about her level 2 all in, but her late game? Seems to me like a GIT GUD thread

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