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So I thought about a few things (long post) (short version at the bottom)

chipndip1··2 votes·256 views

So the preseason discord and chaos has relatively wound down, and now that FQC's been brought into line, Sona's pick rates and win rates have now started to fall back in line with what they used to be: relatively decent in Bronze/Silver, but decreasing in both as you move up to more competitive elos. As with any game I put more serious time into, I keep an eye out for the stats of the character(s) I mainly play. Now, given the huge drop after FQC's nerfs, one could just revert to the season 5 ways of old where a ton of Sona mains were complaining for buffs. After all, her stats in higher elos are worse than they were back then, even with other positive itemization changes in her favor...

...but that's short-sighted. Really short-sighted. Actually, Sona's problem in this game highlights a bunch of other champs' problems in this game. Champs like Mordekaiser Kayle Nunu Cassiopeia Sona MasterYi , and maybe even some others I'm forgetting, all of them have the same issue.

Their play patterns, outside of ulting, are entirely defined by one button.

It's not just a "Meh, this champ's boring" sort of issue, or a "I wish my champ was strong" issue. It basically makes them unable to be enjoyed like other champs in this game. You can't risk buffing them because there's low counter-play to what they do when they're doing well, so it's not like you can try to out-play them and shut them down. Basically they're left being relatively weak in their own right, waiting for the game environment to favor them enough to be more relevant, as with what we saw with Sona's preseason rise and season 6 fall (as soon as FQC got toned down, Sona's stats dropped dramatically...along with Nami's, but Nami has double the play rate in Plat and Diamond). That, however, isn't satisfying, and forces Riot to make many of these guys depend way too much on itemization for overall success. It's basically old Fio with multiple different faces. You're a walking ball of stats and you either steal that lunch money or they beat you senseless, you feed, and you don't have anything in your kit to fall back on to assess the situation with since everything about how these champs play is based on one singular play pattern revolving around one singular move.

So it's less about "These champs need buffs/nerfs" and more about "If anyone needs a rework after Taric, the mages, and Yorick, it should be some of these champs". I've come to a point where I've realized...there is no buffing/nerfing these champs to a satisfying state. They're either just death-balling through you or dying trying. These guys all need to be reworked to be more inline with Riot's current balancing philosophies.

Short version: There's some champs that are REALLY ARCHAIC and need real reworks to be caught up to the times, not low-budget Sona band-aid "reworks" Mordekaiser that aren't big enough to really solve the issues they set out to fix Cassiopeia . Yi is a Q-bot, Sona's a Q-bot, Morde is a confusing Frankenstein at the moment, Kayle's an E-bot, Nunu's a Q-bot, and Riot please for the love of goodness don't go 0:2 on "fixing Cass" with this upcoming rework. This isn't a complaint about win rates and other stats more than it's a complaint about the current state of these champs in the game, and the resulting answer to that being "If they get items, they run through you. If they don't, you win." That's not a satisfying way to approach balance in the game.

Thoughts?

5 Comments

Pika3102 votes

This isn't accurate. Sona can matter-of-factly be buffed. Let's say for example they full reverted her to the same as pre-4.13. I don't exaggerate when I tell you that would LITERALLY be more than 30 simultaneous buffs across her entire kit, as that's LITERALLY how many NERFS they made to her during Gutting 4.13 and after. Would that make her OP like you claim? Well considering the answer pre-4.13 was "No, she's an inferior Nami" and since then NAMI HAS BEEN BUFFED, the answer would CONTINUE to be "No, she'd still be an inferior Nami."

You claim she's all about pressing a single button and has nothing else to her kit? That's only true post-4.13, she was NOT that way before it.

You say items define her? That's only half true. ARTIFICIAL items define her. Those same items can be bought on LITERALLY ANY CHAMP IN THE GAME and ALL OF THEM scale better with Spellblade/Echo than Sona does. These items' artificial damage/scalings are masking the fact that Sona herself isn't a playable character. Pre-4.13 she had better numbers, a stronger kit and wasn't a 1-button champ, yet she wasn't item-reliant. Why is that? Because she was playable before Gutting 4.13. BECAUSE GUTTING 4.13 MADE HER UNPLAYABLE.

Now, you go off with your winrate propaganda, but I'll give you some credit for not using it indiscriminately like MOST sheeple. However, would it interest anyone to know that without Spellblade/Echo, her winrate falls considerably below 40%? However with these items she climbs to ~65%, so is it a synergy with the items? Hell no. Both of these items overall have an average ~65% winrate on all champions, Sona does NOT synergize with them any better than literally any other champion in the game. If anything her synergy is actually LOWER than the majority of champions, at least lower than ALL other mages for certain.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

This isn't accurate. Sona can matter-of-factly be buffed. Let's say for example they full reverted her to the same as pre-4.13. I don't exaggerate when I tell you that would LITERALLY be more than 30 simultaneous buffs across her entire kit, as that's LITERALLY how many NERFS they made to her during Gutting 4.13 and after.

Riot is NEVER going to revert a rework that's gone live. Stop it.

Would that make her OP like you claim? Well considering the answer pre-4.13 was "No, she's an inferior Nami" and since then NAMI HAS BEEN BUFFED, the answer would CONTINUE to be "No, she'd still be an inferior Nami."

She was reworked because she was effective-yet-boring and didn't interact enough with the lane while having a very low skill floor. Hell, her skill floor is still so low that she can't be made any more effective than this.

You claim she's all about pressing a single button and has nothing else to her kit? That's only true post-4.13, she was NOT that way before it.

And no one cares because that time is long gone.

You say items define her? That's only half true. ARTIFICIAL items define her. Those same items can be bought on LITERALLY ANY CHAMP IN THE GAME and ALL OF THEM scale better with Spellblade/Echo than Sona does. These items' artificial damage/scalings are masking the fact that Sona herself isn't a playable character. Pre-4.13 she had better numbers, a stronger kit and wasn't a 1-button champ, yet she wasn't item-reliant. Why is that? Because she was playable before Gutting 4.13. BECAUSE GUTTING 4.13 MADE HER UNPLAYABLE.

Stop referring to before her rework. The point of the thread is that she, along with others, need a(nother) rework.

Now, you go off with your winrate propaganda...

You mean hard evidence of success/failure in solo queue? Also, you don't realize that I almost always reference play rate when I reference win rate?

...but I'll give you some credit for not using it indiscriminately like MOST sheeple. However, would it interest anyone to know that without Spellblade/Echo, her winrate falls considerably below 40%?

Well, that's part of the point...and I'm pretty sure that point's been discussed to death.

However with these items she climbs to ~65%, so is it a synergy with the items? Hell no. Both of these items overall have an average ~65% winrate on all champions, Sona does NOT synergize with them any better than literally any other champion in the game. If anything her synergy is actually LOWER than the majority of champions, at least lower than ALL other mages for certain.

Also been discussed to death, and yet this isn't even the main point of the thread, anyway. The point is that all these champs are way too centered around one button/play-style to be reasonably buffed in their current state, because we all know that Riot never reverts live reworks. In Sona's case, it was stated that they did hers on a low budget, and the result of that...is this. Outside of suggesting that Riot never do another half-assed rework again and to make sure they have the money to make each one a truly solid effort, they need to rework her and Morde for real and address the other characters listed here. Right now they're more background noise than anything else. Except Yi, but Yi's only around a decent bit because Devourer works so well on him that it's hard to not use him if you want to melt people from the jungle role. Still doesn't mean his kit is any real good.

Like, yea, the Morde fans died down, but look at Morde himself. In all honesty, the character's a mess. His GLOBAL play rate is 2.4%, and his bot lane play rate is like .1%...globally...across all elos...even though he's supposed to go bot lane. That whole debacle was a disaster. Riot needs to avoid "low budget reworks" if this is how they keep going.

Pika3101 votes

{quoted}

Riot is NEVER going to revert a rework that's gone live. Stop it.

That's their mistake, not mine. It's not my fault Rito are close-minded and too arrogant to admit they screwed up. Multiple occasions they've stated they would revert reworks without a second thought if it was a bad idea. The Sona gutting in 4.13 was one of their worst ideas to date, the only explanation why they aren't sticking to their word can be that they have a deep-seated hatred for her.

She was reworked because she was effective-yet-boring and didn't interact enough with the lane while having a very low skill floor. Hell, her skill floor is still so low that she can't be made any more effective than this.

That doesn't excuse reducing her effectiveness, making her even more boring and removing more of her interactivity whilst simultaneously increasing her skill floor. They literally did the opposite of everything they should have done and yet the fact they still refuse to increase her effectiveness is just inherent proof of Rito's hatred of Sona.

And no one cares because that time is long gone.

If no one cared, then I wouldn't be here, but I am and so are many other people.

Stop referring to before her rework. The point of the thread is that she, along with others, need a(nother) rework.

Me referring to pre-4.13 doesn't at all clash with your point. I agree that she needs another rework, there's no reason for this unjustified hostility against someone on the same side as you.

Also been discussed to death, and yet this isn't even the main point of the thread, anyway. The point is that all these champs are way too centered around one button/play-style to be reasonably buffed in their current state, because we all know that Riot never reverts live reworks. In Sona's case, it was stated that they did hers on a low budget, and the result of that...is this. Outside of suggesting that Riot never do another half-assed rework again and to make sure they have the money to make each one a truly solid effort, they need to rework her and Morde for real and address the other characters listed here. Right now they're more background noise than anything else. Except Yi, but Yi's only around a decent bit because Devourer works so well on him that it's hard to not use him if you want to melt people from the jungle role. Still doesn't mean his kit is any real good.

Like, yea, the Morde fans died down, but look at Morde himself. In all honesty, the character's a mess. His GLOBAL play rate is 2.4%, and his bot lane play rate is like .1%...globally...across all elos...even though he's supposed to go bot lane. That whole debacle was a disaster. Riot needs to avoid "low budget reworks" if this is how they keep going.

Agreed.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Please explain how Yi is a "Q bot" as you say.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Please explain how Yi is a "Q bot" as you say.

MasterYi : R to speed in, E damage steroid, Q, auto some, Q again since autos reduce the cd of Q, Q again, repeat between autos and Q's

His whole kit is centered around Alpha Strike. Hell, that's his only offensive move he has, and he's an assassin of all things. So the only thing he can do is auto, Q, and the rest of his kit is designed to help him auto or Q more. If he's in a situation where things are getting difficult, Yi has no other real play patterns. That's the issue here, and it's why Yi literally only takes Devourer. He lives and dies by it because it's a huge multiplier to the one thing he does: Q -> AAs -> Q

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