I just realized the purpose of the Garen jungle regen buff @ level 11

Nebuul·Oct 1, 2014·26 votes·2,776 views

I have been wracking my mind trying to figure out what the purpose of the level 11 buff to Garen's regen was -- where only epic monsters will turn it off. I mean, the late access to the buff means it is not intended to help someone be a Garen jungle, yet there it is. Then I realized that the purpose is to allow Garen to run through the jungle when he has Sunfire Cape on without turning off his regen passive every time he runs past a monster pack.

It's actually a really smart buff. Kudos to Riot.

20 Comments

Deep Terror NamiOct 1, 201414 votes

I'm unsure whether this was an intended consequence of the change, however good it might be, but that brings us to another topic; Sunfire Cape dealing unwanted damage.

I'm sure turning it into a toggled passive has been discussed a million times, but they might also just disable its damage against anything that isn't in combat or do something more complicated to also prevent hitting enemy champions under their turret (we've all been trying to get 6 hits on a tower to kill it, but Sunfire Cape damages the enemy and draws that turret aggro on you).

Lumus AvatarOct 1, 20145 votes

Hitting enemy champs under their turret and drawing turret aggro is a risk you run. You gotta think about your play before you make. In a way, it's a kind of balancing factor. It keeps people who have Sunfire out of the turret range, allowing you to fight more safely beneath it. See how now it is helping you if your opponent has it? I say balance because it does add a lot of peeling power to melee tanks.

Deep Terror NamiOct 1, 20144 votes

But how would it need balancing if it's turned off and not hurting anybody? I didn't say I wanted it to not draw aggro when it does damage, I said it could just not do damage at all. Plenty of champions have aoe abilities centered on themselves, but not a single one of them is involuntary and will force you to get turret aggro even when you don't use it. Your argument applied to these makes everything you just said pointless.

Lumus AvatarOct 1, 20143 votes

because then it doesn't have a discernible weakness. Like Jayce being able to change change from melee to ranged and back whenever the situation calls for it, immediately trading out situational weaknesses for strength and thereby having no weaknesses.

Also, you're rude.

Deep Terror NamiOct 1, 20147 votes

Why does it need a weakness? Where's the weakness that hurts you in every other item, and all other similar abilities? Also, who cares that you got hurt from...nothing apparently.

BetaDude40Oct 2, 20141 votes

Blitzcrank's ultimate passive is actually involuntary, and on many occasions has stolen minions from my ADC or attracted unwanted aggro from jungle camps and turrets.

Deep Terror NamiOct 2, 20141 votes

Ok you're right, I did forget about that one.

speak with treeOct 2, 20141 votes

I've had blitz's ult passive steal a penta from my adc. I felt awful.

Teridax68Oct 2, 20143 votes

@Lumus Avatar and BetaDude40: Not all weaknesses are meaningful weaknesses. Gnar 's inability to keep the form he wants 24/7 is a meaningful downside because it's one that he and his enemies can play around, and one that enriches gameplay. item 3068 involuntarily drawing jungle aggro is not a meaningful weakness because it has nothing to do with champion-to-champion interaction. Even when it's drawing turret aggro, it's punishing the player for doing something they would have no problem doing without the item, which means it removes gameplay options instead of enriching gameplay. Static Field's passive is also a problem in that respect, and the annoyance it causes (randomly zapping minions and taking CS in bot lane) isn't a meaningful weakness. If it only affected enemies Blitzcrank was attacking, it wouldn't remove any interaction with Blitz's enemies but still offer similar gameplay. Similarly, a toggle on Sunfire Cape would help in that respect. If there has to be a tradeoff, it should be one that doesn't punish the player for buying the item in the first place.

The5lackerOct 1, 20146 votes

You know what would be an actual choice for Sunfire Cape?

A toggle.

OblongOtterOct 1, 20143 votes

Trying to push down a tower or buying a cheap armor/health item isn't a play. It's either a thing you MUST do to win, or it's a good decision for being in lane. Imagine if there was a gun in an FPS, just like any other gun, but it made it so that you could never bring people below 1 hp if they had been wounded by someone when you started shooting them.

If the purpose is killing, then a standard gun shouldn't prevent that. If you need to take towers to win, then a defensive item shouldn't prevent that in a setup completely out of your control.

masterdragon481Oct 9, 20142 votes

This isn't the only item with a downside to it, players taking tiamat have similar decisions to make, since they now auto push waves. I do think it is just something to consider when you are buying those items. Just make sure your reasons for buying the item fit what you're trying to do.

Lumus AvatarOct 9, 20141 votes

yes, that's more along my meaning. Thank you.

Remlap1223Oct 2, 20142 votes

Honestly, that's the biggest reason I go item 3143 instead of item 3068 . It'd be nice if rito fixed that.

junglerboy16Oct 9, 20141 votes

This has basically been a community request for as long as the game has been going, just go to the old forums and search sun fire toggle.

Lumus AvatarOct 1, 20142 votes

I do this all the time and I was so thankful for it.

SageaceOct 3, 20142 votes

Im still hoping for the buff where later in the game, non-damaging abilities like summoner 3 or Trundle Pillar of Ice won't shut off Perseverance. Maybe at Level 6 or 16?