So i dont know if the enemy has a lee sin or J4 and you have a zac/eve etc it is probably safe to say you shouldnt shove them all the way to their tower and not drop a damn ward along the way.
Wild concept but hear me out, it can sometimes be your own fault when you die.
Pendergast89115 voteshow dare you not play the same 2-3 champions that were meta last season and will still be the meta standard for the entire next year!
Heckin Support6 votesMore like how dare he place blame on someone who isn't the jungler when people get ganked!
it be lìke that3 votesPlay something off meta and do well, everyone says omg thats crazy, do bad and "report this fucking troll"
[zombie-brand-mindblown]
SociaI Justice6 votesPSA; understanding counter ganks is what gets you to dia+ as a jungler
flibitydoo6 votesI've picked really dumb jungle picks like 
in the jungle in the past
and I've stopped ganks purely by just appearing behind my teammates and doing literally nothing. The enemy just sees "oh there's one more dude here, guess I'll stop chasing".
and it works, life saved, enemy denied 300 gold. And all I had to suffer was stepping away from my krugs that I did 400 points of damage to
it be lìke that1 votescorrect counter ganking does work. the context of this thread accounts for the first 3 minutes of the game. nothing more.
oortoomeebreesuu1 voteswe see a lot of babysitting in pro play though. one side of the map is usually too safe to gank, or has a match up that is too volatile (involving a jayce or other 1-sided matchup) and suddenly there's no reason to be anywhere else.
it be lìke that1 votespro play is not even comparable to ladder play though.
Glacier Gang 0504 votesDunno why people downvoted you but this is quite true. I've been into jungling lately on this account, since the ranking system and matchmaking is fucking dumb right now so I don't wanna put my main at risk, but I was d2 in last season support main and GOD DAMN when I got a master tier kha zix dudes been fucking everyone up with counterganks wherever he moves. Picking Zac or Kha Zix every game and completely ruining the very existence of the enemy jungler was so fun to watch. If you know the enemy jungler's pathing, you can not only counter jungle, but if you're not on the same side of the map or not gonna make it in time, pinging your laner to back off will grant you and him a very good time with no gray screen in sight
SociaI Justice1 votespeople are downvoting me because they don't want to accept their fault and rather just be "this dudes pushing all game with no wards and just keeps dying to ganks over and over" rather than viewing it as an opportunity of "this guy is so easy to gank for the enemy jungler but our 2v2 is stronger so its a free double every time that i show up". also doesn't fit the "omegalul the noobz are blaming the jungler" meme.
i was one of these guys when i started jungling, i was blaming my team for pushing and not warding and having no idea what to do when my lanes were winning 1v1s and shoving + dying to ganks. learning the enemy junglers pathing and the ability to view the game through his eyes was what pushed my jungling to dia and also helped me with my other roles.
ninjaroxas8 votesYou got down voted because you worded it like a prick and in the context of this thread you are wrong. Counter ganking doesn't always work
SociaI Justice1 votesdunno how else to word that, should i add 5 thank yous pleases and apologies to it?
in the context of this thread you are wrong.
no
Counter ganking doesn't always work
true
Tormentula2 votes[{quoted}](name=Glacier Gang 050,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=INBitApT,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-02-06T11:37:16.403+0000)
Dunno why people downvoted you but this is quite true. I've been into jungling lately on this account, since the ranking system and matchmaking is fucking dumb right now so I don't wanna put my main at risk, but I was d2 in last season support main and GOD DAMN when I got a master tier kha zix dudes been fucking everyone up with counterganks wherever he moves. Picking Zac or Kha Zix every game and completely ruining the very existence of the enemy jungler was so fun to watch. If you know the enemy jungler's pathing, you can not only counter jungle, but if you're not on the same side of the map or not gonna make it in time, pinging your laner to back off will grant you and him a very good time with no gray screen in sight
He's being downvoted because you can't counter gank at level 2, which the topic is about you know, level 2 ganks.
I actually had a game last night where I pathed red - > krugs as elise, mana is 0 only have QW, went for scuttle so I could hit level 3 and refund my mana pool to gank bot; instead bot ints and all-ins level 2 and blames me for not level 2 ganking when i never committed to doing so. Several walls of flaming text later, ended up getting ganking their lane 3 times, then repeatedly diving the enemy bot lane and got their tower at around 10 minutes. Thats what this thread is about, boosted players that don't understand some junglers don't have the luxury of just running to lanes after their first buff.
Counter ganking beyond that is a lot more dynamic, good junglers will counter gank if they win the 2v2s, but its better to take objectives or gank the opposite side of the map. See their jungler top? Infernal is better then counter ganking an elise as evelynn. If its ocean and their jungler is a kindred while you're a kha'zix, its better to play around denying them lane pressure and tracking them instead.
Glacier Gang 0501 votesAgain, he never mentioned that the counter ganking is always possible. He claimed that knowing how to and when to counter gank is what makes you a high elo player. And that is true. In your particular situation, i saw you're low dia at the moment ( good job btw, no flaming intended ) people hardly use their brain enough for the game. That's what makes them hardstuck dia rather than a progressive dia/master player. You don't necessarily have to start on red or blue depending on the side cause you have your botlane to help you. Seeing if your bot hitting level 2 before enemy bot is more beneficial is better to keep in mind. Next up, your laners should understand the power of every jungler that they encounter. If you have an elise jungle and they have Camille, you obviously won't push the lane cause Camille will lvl 2 gank you and your elise can't react on that. There's a BUNCH of things to look for and about and while progressively climbing up the ladder you'll get better and smarter players. There's a bunch of other things about jungling and tips for it I'd gladly give you but these are the most common ones for the elo you are in. These few tips aren't my words, i used to be a semi pro player ( not so under lights of cameras i guess ) and when it comes to strategy, these are the tips my coach gave my jungler back in season 7. It's all about cooperation between you and your teammates. Yeah, it's a stupid soloQ, you'll get morons that'll lose you a game, i know, but you can't do much there except learning about jungling more. The game's lost for sure? Fuck it! Go and examine how jungling works, time for camps clearing with a certain champion, make your own pathing with each champion you play in the jungle. It's a very fun and one of the hardest roles to play in the game, quote me on that one, but its very challenging and if you have enough patience, you can get very high up the ladder. One of the best players on soloQ on most regions that are in top 10 of their region are junglers!
Tormentula1 votes[{quoted}](name=Glacier Gang 050,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=INBitApT,comment-id=0002000100010000,timestamp=2019-02-06T21:48:26.316+0000)
Again, he never mentioned that the counter ganking is always possible. He claimed that knowing how to and when to counter gank is what makes you a high elo player. And that is true. In your particular situation, i saw you're low dia at the moment ( good job btw, no flaming intended ) people hardly use their brain enough for the game. That's what makes them hardstuck dia rather than a progressive dia/master player. You don't necessarily have to start on red or blue depending on the side cause you have your botlane to help you. Seeing if your bot hitting level 2 before enemy bot is more beneficial is better to keep in mind. Next up, your laners should understand the power of every jungler that they encounter. If you have an elise jungle and they have Camille, you obviously won't push the lane cause Camille will lvl 2 gank you and your elise can't react on that. There's a BUNCH of things to look for and about and while progressively climbing up the ladder you'll get better and smarter players. There's a bunch of other things about jungling and tips for it I'd gladly give you but these are the most common ones for the elo you are in. These few tips aren't my words, i used to be a semi pro player ( not so under lights of cameras i guess ) and when it comes to strategy, these are the tips my coach gave my jungler back in season 7. It's all about cooperation between you and your teammates. Yeah, it's a stupid soloQ, you'll get morons that'll lose you a game, i know, but you can't do much there except learning about jungling more. The game's lost for sure? Fuck it! Go and examine how jungling works, time for camps clearing with a certain champion, make your own pathing with each champion you play in the jungle. It's a very fun and one of the hardest roles to play in the game, quote me on that one, but its very challenging and if you have enough patience, you can get very high up the ladder. One of the best players on soloQ on most regions that are in top 10 of their region are junglers!
I actually been mid d3 about 4 times this season lol, I won't hold my ego, but with all the masters climbing in D after placements, I've been meeting my matches quite frequently. (doesn't help in high mmr, idk if you're experiencing this or not but there's a lot of "don't care" attitude players due to positional matchmaking in my games it seems, even had 3 disco nunus this season)
My biggest issues don't so much stem from jungler intuition, as much as me dying mid-late game too much, not closing out leads (would you believe me if in 80% of my losses my KDA and KP was really good before the 20 minute marks?, even in that siv game I mentioned, I was 6/2/6 at 11 minutes but ended the game with a win at 8/10/10, yikes), and overall tilting off the face of the earth, usually I lose the tilt at the start of the next game all chatting random stuff to lighten the mood, but moment something goes wrong oof i need therapy.
I've been coached before, and was actually scheduling for another session soon to kinda recap (since that was almost a year ago and right now I feel like I reverted my brain to the same mistakes that I fixed before.)
I'm just saying all of this cause I do value your input, wouldn't mind more suggestions if you've seen this kind of player pattern before. One thing that holds players back is its harder to be self aware of mistakes, I'm actually coaching players between iron-plat myself but what I say is valuable to those ratings, what goes on with me and my mmr is my problem which I why ironically, as a coach i need a bigger coach and don't really help out my own rating since it'd be hypocritical lol. Its also easier for me to see the other player's mistakes, point them out, even seeing the missed farm opportunities and strategizing, but in real time its harder for me to react myself even if I have the knowledge to respond to that kind of stuff, so it valuable to me to hear from a third person's perspective what I'm blind to.
But regarding the topic itself;
The person's comment was this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/542831785843621928/unknown.png
Again, he never mentioned that the counter ganking is always possible. He claimed that knowing how to and when to counter gank is what makes you a high elo player. And that is true.
The question was "why was he being downvoted" when that particular comment didn't elaborate. It didn't go into detail "when necessary", so it can only be assumed as "junglers are obligated to counter gank" or "junglers should counter gank the level 2 gank" given the thread topic.
The second comment which elaborated more is fine however, but that was after your defense, and while they got downvotes on the more proper comment, there's still issues outside of the jungler's control, yes counter ganking and tracking is indeed a skill junglers have to learn, but the impression I got is "its always better jg wins" from that comment, which can be true, but if laners do do dumb things and you put too much trust into them to go for other plays instead across the map, that isn't entirely on the jg difference, but he's not wrong really when it comes to the importance of counter ganks.
SociaI Justice1 votesIt didn't go into detail "when necessary", so it can only be assumed as "junglers are obligated to counter gank" or "junglers should counter gank the level 2 gank" given the thread topic.
this is a QQ thread made by someone who lost a game to their laners winning and them having no idea what to do with it, don't let the wording confuse you. my comment was merely there to let the OP and other aspiring junglers (aka the people browsing this thread) know that "this is how you git gud" rather than "your team is perfect and never makes mistakes" which is what a lot of people seemed to take it as.
the impression I got is "its always better jg wins"
well not always but the mass majority of the time yes, especially if the jungler actually communicates with his team, its actually a lot easier for a jungler to know what the enemy jungler is up to and let your laners know and how to properly deal with it, of course there are people that don't listen to anything you say but that's generally a minority.
Glacier Gang 0501 votesGood job on going to d3 for start. Anyhow yes, I can't disagree on the "don't care" players part. There's a bloody bunch of them. I suggest to force positivity in the chat in the game and be the shotcaller ( If you have any idea how to close the game mid-game that is, don't act smart if you don't know how to cause you'll end up being the reason you lost ) and trust me, people will follow your lead on that one. Instead of going "GET MID INHIB YOU PEEP STUPID PEEP RETAR-PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP" go for a different approach such as "Hey guys let's get mid inhibitor while they're all dead and then we can baron. Afterwards its a free win!" and most of the time they'll listen to you if you keep it friendly. If they don't do it, and they don't listen to your call, just keep it cool and do what they do. After a few requests they'll help you out to achieve your mission. So like I said, force positivity!
so it can only be assumed as "junglers are obligated to counter gank" or "junglers should counter gank the level 2 gank" given the thread topic
Wrong! I didn't assume that in any stage of reading his comment. He said that understanding the ways of counter ganking is what makes you a good, high elo player. And he said nothing wrong. He's responsible for what he said, not for what you understood. In "understand counter ganks" it doesn't necessarily mean he was implying on jungler players. If you are a laner you should be very well aware of your jungle pick and enemy jungle pick. If your teammate has a, say Zac, and enemy has Camille, you surely shouldn't push the wave cause you WILL get ganked by Cami level 2 since she is ( was now, cries ) the best ganker level 2 in the game while Zac can't do much. Also, sometimes not engaging is the best engage! By making your presence on the lane as a jungler that is currently being ganked, that can scare off the enemy laner/s and jungler so your laner/s would survive the gank and maybe even get a kill, who knows! Understanding of champions that are played in the jungle are the best thing you can do as a non-jungler player for your own lane safety. Everything else is up to jungler. If he is a good tracker and knows where the enemy jungler might be, he will be nearby ready to counter gank if needed. He doesn't always have to counter gank, sometimes he can trade bot gank for top gank, which can be valuable in certain matchups and situations. So keep in mind that the comment was about ALL people, not just junglers!
Malix Farwin5 votesI am more then willing to accept that if you accept that some mid laners cant fight in river early/matchups determine they can and cannot do early as well.
Glacier Gang 0501 votesKeep in mind that it's not just about YOU like an individual. If you are a Ryze, who potentially has close to no impact in a early game fight, but you have a strong level 2 jungle such as Udyr, Xin, Cami, and you two as a TEAM can fight off 2v2 against their mid jungle, you should take the fight though. Giving your jungler even the smallest lead in the early game can win you a game!
UlyssesISR4 votesThis is pretty much why I avoid jungle role. If you have to remind people over and over to drop wards. You are going to have a bad time as a jungler.
Glacier Gang 0501 votesissue with that is that lower eloes, until diamond 3-2 are very bad at warding. They'll ward the nearest bush and they will call it warded which is NOT enough! You need to make a good ward position deeper in the river / enemy jungle so you can be aware of the danger that might be coming to you. Your jungler should put some meaningful wards deeper into enemy jungle as well. For your own ( as a laner ) safety, and for a valuable info so he can predict where the enemy jungler is heading to gank next, giving you as a jungler, a lot of time to set up a counter gank and warn your laner about the danger that is heading his way.
Tarquin963 votesAre you r%%%%%ed?I cant possibly make a mistake,its your fault for not warding my bush. Fucking jng mains and their bullshit excuses
it be lìke that2 votesGG JUNGLER AFK. BETTER TOP LOSES.
Me: Hey Yas...its 2:45 in lets settle down a bit.
GigglesO2 votesIts Rito's fault for not lowering damage enough.
The Trent1 votesEve and Zac have good level 2 ganks and if anything I suggest going for an early gank because one kill is all you need to tilt someone off the face of earth. Bad examples lol. Lee/j4 might have higher base dmg but eve/ zac have way more cc potential. Also just saying but this current jungle meta is all about early game ganks and controlling the game, if you're not playing a champ who can do that, you're either planning to 1v9 or you're planning to get out jungled and hope for a carry.
DracosKasu1 votesThey can gank well that true but they also have higher risk to do so compare to 
because of their high burst potential which implie your victim to have high chance to die in the process and have lesser risk of failing hard during a counter gank. Still overall the jungle change is still dumb because they polarize the jungle even more and doesn't solve the main complaint of the jungle which was the early gank.
Anyway it is all fine for Riot because they still have buff mister LCS big play in the process.
Thefrostyviking1 votesOp that isnt quite how it works tho x)
Like those buggers can easily gank even when the lane is perfectly in the middle, and given how most push very slowly early on the lanes are usually in the middle by level 2.
Showing them under tower? I wish that was their success condition, woulda been great.
Oh and also, zac is actually really damn good at ganking anytime from level 3 and on so he also does early ganks very neatly.....although not level 2 ones but still-
it be lìke that1 voteslevel 3 is is astronomically different than level 2 for zac. level 2 you have a 3 foot jump and a dream. level 3, you have a 3 foot jump and a form of cc.
This is NOT a counterganking post. It pertains to the opening minutes of the game only.
AntiSJW1 votes[zombie-brand-clap]
Chalze1 votesI play quite a bit of Evelynn and just so everyone knows what's happening, I do tell them in champ select or first minute I won't be able to gank as much pre-6 since I'm rushing level 6. If they complain about it I just refer back to mechanics :P
