PSA. It IS the junglers job to gank

TrikzterzArma·Oct 5, 2018·7 votes·2,742 views

Why else would you have a jungler?

I'm so sick of people claiming that it isn't the junglers job to gank. Yes it literally is the junglers job to gank. It's their job to apply pressure to all lanes. Why the hell would you want a jungler if they only farm in the jungle for 20 minutes? What's the point with that?

Edit. ''It's the junglers job to secure objectives'' Yeah but afk farming in the jungle for 20 minutes isn't ''securing ojectives''. While your jungler afkfarms, the enemy jungler ganks constantly. Guess which team wins the game? lol

27 Comments

CIaymanOct 5, 201812 votes

It is the jungler's job to apply pressure across the map.

What that means depends upon innumerable variables.

Dragons, heralds, waves, counter jungling, vision control, threat, and yes, ganking, are all, in some way, up to the jungler. Sometimes the jungler will prioritize ganking, sometimes it's best for him to prioritize one of his other goals.

ForFoxSakesOct 5, 20189 votes

PSA - you have no idea wtf you're talking about

It's like you generalizing and claiming that it's a laner's role to do damage

NoPaxtOct 5, 20189 votes

PSA: It's the laner's job to win lane, and it's the laner's job to watch the jungle pathing to set up ganks for the jungler.

Done25Oct 5, 20188 votes

Correction. It is the jungler's job to contest and control objectives. If a laner dies 1v1 to Illaoi at lv 1? Then that's their own fault.

Lets have shrexOct 5, 20186 votes

No, it depends which jungler you're playing.

If it's Elise your job is to outscale the enemy jungler by invading him, stealing his farm and trying to kill him If you're playing Udyr your job is to farm until mid-game and try to splitpush If you're playing Nunu your job is to control objectives If you're playing Shyvana your job is to farm until mid-game and take as much dragons as you can

AlzonOct 5, 20182 votes

If it’s Graves it’s all of the above, except they’re all handed to you for keeping your E stacks up.

Lets have shrexOct 5, 201810 votes

{quoted}

If it’s it’s all of the above, except they’re all handed to you for keeping your E stacks up.

If it's Yasuo your job is to feed, flame your team and hard carry once you're 0/10

AlzonOct 5, 20182 votes

Can confirm the Yasuo 0/10 powerspike is a myth. Just two days ago, I had a Yasuo on my team hit 0/10. He ended the game 0/13, I think.

FOR JUSTICEOct 5, 20186 votes

see it only applies if they have m7 and flash it repeatedly.

AlzonOct 5, 20184 votes

Oh, that makes sense. This was a Yasuo in training (pre-Noob).

DuskDaUmbreonOct 5, 20183 votes

If the only thing you're doing is farming jungle until mid-game so you can split, you're just wasting everyone's time.

You're not applying real pressure during that time you're farming. You're not doing shit for objectives. You're not even going to be useful to your team later on.

Nasus, Trynd, Yorick, and all other splitpush champions do it because they take a lane with low outside interaction (top) and use that lane to get resources for splitting, then *are a large enough threat that they require more than one person to respond to them.

In that case: Udyr might get two people to handle him if he fed. Nasus will get 2-3 every time or he's just going to get free kills. Udyr just makes it a 4v4, and basically lets the enemy jungler get all of his lanes ahead. Nasus makes it a 4v3 or better and keeps his opponent from roaming.

If you're fucking farming jungle until mid then splitting you're just crippling your team.

Pandemic PunchOct 5, 20183 votes

You can apply pressure to all lanes by dominating one lane. If the enemy team doesn't respond, you get an inhibitor. If they enemy team does respond, you force them to fight you while they are at a deficit and this time also allows your teammates to pressure the other lanes.

You can also apply pressure to all lanes by never ganking. You can do this simply by tracking and out-dueling the other jungler. Then you can constantly contest or secure dragons + Herald while having the freedom to ward anywhere on the map where it is needed. If the jungler doesn't get help from his team, you will take everything in his jungle. If the enemy team DOES help him, they set themselves back on exp and gold. Especially if you can read the map and get away.

There are many more ways map pressure can be achieved without ganking. If you are trapped in a bad match up or are performing poorly, that is YOUR fault. Pick smarter or get better at the game. If you rely on your jungler in every game, you won't get any better.

Olga RajeckaOct 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IJ5XOPwe,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-05T19:49:55.892+0000)

You can apply pressure to all lanes by dominating one lane. If the enemy team doesn't respond, you get an inhibitor. If they enemy team does respond, you force them to fight you while they are at a deficit and this time also allows your teammates to pressure the other lanes.

You can also apply pressure to all lanes by never ganking. You can do this simply by tracking and out-dueling the other jungler. Then you can constantly contest or secure dragons + Herald while having the freedom to ward anywhere on the map where it is needed. If the jungler doesn't get help from his team, you will take everything in his jungle. If the enemy team DOES help him, they set themselves back on exp and gold. Especially if you can read the map and get away.

There are many more ways map pressure can be achieved without ganking. If you are trapped in a bad match up or are performing poorly, that is YOUR fault. Pick smarter or get better at the game. If you rely on your jungler in every game, you won't get any better.

Sure, that's fair. But dominating a lane and ignoring the guy who's being pressured by their jungler and is feeding jax up top isn't exactly the smartest idea either.

That's fair.

Being trapped in a bad matchup isn't exactly the players fault. LIke, what kind of argument even is that? If I have to first pick mid, their mid will counter me. Presuming that we're even in skill, he's going to dumpster me. With a pressure from the enemy jungler, I'll be done. This isn't pro play, we can't do multi-switching, pick-baiting and whatnot.

Pika FoxOct 5, 20182 votes

The junglers job is to clear jungle, leaving top free for solo xp/gold and having smite to secure major objectives.

Ganking and pressure is a bonus, not their job. Your team gets value even if they gank 0 times.

Olga RajeckaOct 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IJ5XOPwe,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-10-05T20:39:49.154+0000)

The junglers job is to clear jungle, leaving top free for solo xp/gold and having smite to secure major objectives.

Ganking and pressure is a bonus, not their job. Your team gets value even if they gank 0 times.

What value do they get if the enemy jungler is actually ganking? That's like receiving a letter with money and anthrax in it. Sure, the money is nice but you've got anthrax now.

ForFoxSakesOct 5, 20183 votes

If the enemy jg ganks the your jg should take the enemy's camps to even it out.

It's the laner's fault if they get ganked bc they can anticipate and prepare for it. You see this all the time in higher elo when people properly back off just bc they know the jg timings or if another lane is missing, but most of the low elo always blame someone else for their lack of experience and knowledge when their jungler isnt their on call bitch

So common to have a laner solo get killed multiple times then bitch at their jungler for not helping when no one should be going to help them

Olga RajeckaOct 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If the enemy jg ganks the your jg should take the enemy's camps to even it out.

It's the laner's fault if they get ganked bc they can anticipate and prepare for it. You see this all the time in higher elo when people properly back off just bc they know the jg timings or if another lane is missing, but most of the low elo always blame someone else for their lack of experience and knowledge when their jungler isnt their on call bitch

So common to have a laner solo get killed multiple times then bitch at their jungler for not helping when no one should be going to help them

A lot of bullshit here, but let's see. Trading a gank for jungle side is fine.

The thing is - in low elo the jungle paths are absolutely random. No one follows the proper routes and recall timings which makes it impossible to predict where the jungler will be. It is easier in high elo as they at least follow some sort of logical path.

There is this thing called "lane matchups". Some champions just can't lane against certain champions. Junglers job in that case is to help that lane. Once a player in a lane like that dies, he will start dying more frequently as the inherent advantage will grow. The opposite case is for that laner to just ignore farm which means that at one point, the enemy laner will just go out of control. A junglers job is to understand the matchups and plan his route accordingly.

Another example is if Veigar lanes against, let's say, Ryze. If Veigar dies in a 1v1 that's entirely his fault as it shouldn't really happen. If Veigar lanes against Zed, a jungler has to realize that when level 6 hits, Zed will probably get his first kill.

There is no real reason to defend the junglers, though. Their knowledge of the game, in the vast majority of cases is so bad that if we went just by knowing what to do, they'd be silver as most of them play on instinct and mechanics alone. For example, in the last ~20 games of EUNE plat, I haven't seen a single countergank happen. That should tell you a lot about their understanding of the game.

In conclusion: No one is asking junglers to just gank 24/7. But understanding the matchups, probable outcomes and planning the routes accordingly is what every jungler should do.

Pika FoxOct 6, 20181 votes

Top is getting solo gold/xp and your 5th is still getting gold/xp. Even with 0 ganks its more valuable than 2 top.

Olga RajeckaOct 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IJ5XOPwe,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2018-10-06T13:09:27.022+0000)

Top is getting solo gold/xp and your 5th is still getting gold/xp. Even with 0 ganks its more valuable than 2 top.

Yeah, it is. So? It is more valuable because that's how the game is set up. It has nothing to do with roles and their function in the game.

Even with 0 ganks, the enemy jungler can do a simply walk-by a specific lane and the "value" as you call it disappears. As far as I'm concerned, a jungler that doesn't apply pressure to the lanes / enemy jungler is useless piece of meat and shouldn't play the role.

Pika FoxOct 7, 20181 votes

This isnt about your concern or what you think. Fact is a jungler gives value just by existing, and their job is not just to gank.

Olga RajeckaOct 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IJ5XOPwe,comment-id=00060000000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-07T04:52:12.737+0000)

This isnt about your concern or what you think. Fact is a jungler gives value just by existing, and their job is not just to gank.

No, he doesn't. That's such a stupid approach. If the jungler is only farming the jungle, he might as well not exist since the jungle doesn't interact with lanes hence he doesn't have to be there. In addition to that, it's a fact according to whom? The simple thing is - even in Korea, even in Worlds, junglers mostly focus on vision, ganking and reading the enemy jungler. That's where the value comes from. Value also comes from influencing certain lane matchups that would otherwise be set in stone. Until you can provide an argument that completely disproves what I've said or shows us how the value of a jungler that only exists without influencing the game is set from the beginning, you have no grounds at all.

As far as their job goes, of course it isn't. If I have a jungler that with 80% precision reads the enemy jungler and informs the team of where that jungler is, that's fine. I'd rather have that than a jungler who ganks 3 times per game. However, that still means the jungler would be interacting with the match.

theChibiTinaOct 5, 20181 votes

My friend doesn't counter gank. Instead he takes their entire jungle on the opposite side of the map and starves them of gold. Lol. Can't buy items and be relevant if you can't CS and get gold. He once had a jungle Quinn rage in all chat, "Kayn, when I find you!" He took it as a challenge, found her, and deleted her.

TortuseOct 6, 20181 votes

The junglers job is to use their time the best way the can to win the game, either it is spent ganking, clearing camps counter jungling getting deep vision, rallying to take dragon, Harold. It is advantageus to gank lanes but there is risk and time investment. there is a chance they will get nothing out of it or worst case scenario they get counter ganked and the enemy laner gets 2 kills setting the you further behind.

as a jungler i am more likely to gank lanes that ward ping them MIA's, enemy summoners, and do not have early deaths. do these things and it makes your lane more gankable and more apealing for a jungler to gank. spam pinging to gank your lane will get my attention for like 5 seconds but if it continues you will get muted and I am sure that is common for many junglers.

As a Lane you need to understand that every jungler wants to win just like you do and they all have differant ideas of how to win the game depending on their particular matchup the information they have on the map, the opportunities they see (within their skill range of course nobody is perfect). A jungler wants to get ahead in farm just like laners do and by ganking we are not farming (though we do sometimes tax to keep up or get ahead). some junglers want more kills to carry the game, others try to give the kills to laners if they think they can carry or win lane.

Did you know that laners can gank jungle? if you are pushed up and see a fight in the river or in the jungle if the enemy or your jungle invades you can gank. you can gank for the jungle and secure a kill. you can get vision in the enemy jungle to help the jungle with their pathing by providing more information as well. laners can gank other lanes. if you notice they you are going to lose lane and the jungler is active on the other side of the map followup with a TP play and get that first tower blood( this takes practice and experience). There are is more but this should get ya started

The purpose of this is not to bash you or any other laner but to add prospective to what you can do to help your jungler even when he cant or wont help you. I understand there are bad junglers but a great laner can make up for that :) help us to help you :)

let me know if there is anything i left out or if this was helpful

SaezioOct 6, 20181 votes

Don't expect a gank if you are a losing lane. Chances are it ends up badly because enemy can counter it especially if it is not a clean oneshot. Always gank the winning lanes to get them more ahead and roam with 4/5 members to the losing lane only when the rest of the map is all clear. Sorry but sometimes you need to learn to sit in your lane lose cs and play like a beta while your team wrecks the rest of the map. Your job is to simply play as safe and lose the minimum.

PaíntchipOct 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why else would you have a jungler?

I'm so sick of people claiming that it isn't the junglers job to gank. Yes it literally is the junglers job to gank. It's their job to apply pressure to all lanes. Why the hell would you want a jungler if they only farm in the jungle for 20 minutes? What's the point with that?

Edit. ''It's the junglers job to secure objectives'' Yeah but afk farming in the jungle for 20 minutes isn't ''securing ojectives''. While your jungler afkfarms, the enemy jungler ganks constantly. Guess which team wins the game? lol

PSA: It is the laner’s job to carry their own wieght. Also laners need to stop afk farming in lane and help their jungle secure objectives. I mean your minions do kinda just walk staight at you on a timer.

ozzzz666Oct 6, 20181 votes

I think it is sad that people say stuff like "Because low elo" completely ignoring the fact that IN LOW ELO if you go for a gank on a losing lane, the chances are that your laner is going to recall or back off and watch you die, getting you behind (making you useless) and feeding their laner even more, or maybe they go in and that Illaoi gets a doublekill and a tower. It just goes to prove my line of thinking, which is this:

"I am the jungler, and I will decide when it is or is not a good time to gank. If YOU cannot hold your lane or at least avoid feeding your laner, that is not my fking problem. Go cry in your pillow."

They constantly push their laner under tower so you CAN'T effectively gank. They stay pushed up with no vision and wonder why the enemy jungler keeps killing them and they get no ganks. They don't understand HOW to make it look like a good time to gank when I look at them. They only care about themselves. In other words, they have no sense about what wins games AT ALL. Jungler getting invaded constantly? They keep farming. 1v2 in the river? Farming. Jungler tries to push the wave into enemy tower while they recalled and left a pushing wave? ping jungler for "stealing cs".

People need to stop flaming and blaming and take the necessary steps to learn things like wave control, how to farm under tower, how to make an enemy push out and become vulnerable to ganks, when to shove and when to play safe, and MOST importantly WHEN YOU SHOULD FIGHT AND WHEN YOU SHOULD NOT FIGHT. In low elo, which is where I am, these are the real problems, not that your jungle is not carrying you.

NutJ0bDec 30, 20191 votes

It is the Jungler's job to apply pressure, whether that be ganking, looking for objectives or takiing vision control. The fact is that a laner's job is not to win his lane 1v1, but to win the game 5v5. This means hovering for your jungler to take crab, pushing your wave to look for objectives and roaming when the jungler is looking for a gank/countergank. It is also dependant upon the champion you're playing whether it is more effective early or late. If you are playing a champo with terrible wave clear into something like a yasuo. Chances are you will not be able to roam first therefore the jungler should recognize this and only make plays they know they can win.