I don't see the word "mobility" in "Empowered abilities and resource manipulation", can you?

PaffWasTaken··104 votes·19,510 views

So why the hell is Sorcery massively composed of mobility-based runes? One rune out of three is focused almost solely around mobility AKA movement speed, while ONLY ONE RUNE CONCERNS MANA (Manaflow band), representing resource manipulation. Why???

Everything the sorcery tree was made of smells like it was only designed to be a secondary tree for everyone else while it was supposed to be the pure mages' main tree. The only thing that gave an advantage for mage having it as a main tree was being able to synergise two other sorcery runes with Ultimate hat, but (GUESS WHAT) this rune has been ripped from Sorcery's body just to be fed to Domination, who gets all the attention along with Precision whenever changes needs to be made to the rune system ever since the Pre-season.

Just to make it even more ironic, Domination, who is about "Burst damage and TARGET ACCESS", thus focused around mobility, was the one who inherited of one of the most iconic runes of Sorcery just for it getting replaced by (drum roll) Nimbus Cloak, AKA a mobility-inducing rune that dosen't bring anything worthwile for an huge number of champions who were using ultimate hat. What.The.Hell is that logic?? :

Remove an ability-empowerement ability from the ability empowerement tree -----------------------> Put it into mobility-focused tree Then. Replace said ability by another one concerning mobility, who would've logically belonged to the mobility tree

"Oh yeah, I sure do enjoy having Movement speed while Ulting with Velkoz ! Who needs increasingly smaller cooldowns for it, anyway?!??"

EDIT: People are actually arguing that Movespeed is usefull for mages...Well, of freakin course it does help them, just like with everyone else without exception... But normally, you should focus on such a secondary stat in, well, your secondary tree if you really want it. But since the whole Sorcery tree is designed as being a top choice as a secondary tree for everyone, it has a really bad impact on those who uses it as their main tree (thus, mostly mages) since they end up loaded up with plenty of secondary effects that they don't necessarily need or even use, while being forced to search for those who actually matter in the other trees since they are all spread evenly between them (Presence of mind, Ultimate Hunter, Cosmic Insight, etc etc).

85 Comments

ModAcademy Kayn20 votes

Because a bunch of Mages always took Movement Speed runes, so that they could be faster. I sure as heck did with TF. They're also there for people who like to Sub-Rune into Sorcery. It's like how Precision, has a Tenacity rune. Or Domination, a CDR rune.

SangreDeNoche8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IHnH55yM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-15T05:16:58.311+0000)

Because a bunch of Mages always took Movement Speed runes, so that they could be faster. I sure as heck did with TF. They're also there for people who like to Sub-Rune into Sorcery. It's like how Precision, has a Tenacity rune. Or Domination, a CDR rune.

That doesn't explain why there are so many. Your comparison would only work if 1 in 3 was tenacity in precision or 1 in 3 was cdr for domination. Heck, even that second one's a stretch since cdr actually helps you do more damage over the span of a game unlike movespeed which has nothing to do with "ability enhancement and resource manipulation".

DiamondSeed1 votes

Pretty sure old MS Quints gave a lot more MS than current Celerity. Phase Rush is conditional and so is Nimbus Cloak (requires level 6 and is unavailable for certain champions)

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't mages get MS boosts when they did stat rebalancing?

DiamondSeed1 votes

I don’t think so.

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

the only mages that took mvspd runes were tf and asol.

RamRanchDressing1 votes

Ryze

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

okay that's 3. That's barely any of the mages.

Malak15 votes

I don't even use sorcery tree as a mage..

Arcane Blue Boi3 votes

Ryze uses electrocute now. Thats how sad its become

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Wat. Pretty sure 99.99999% of Ryze games involve running Phase Rush.

Thilmer1 votes

{quoted}

I don't even use sorcery tree as a mage..

I have never used the Sorcery tree as a mage.

That tree is just stupid for a mage. Where is my AP bonus? Where is mi CDR? Who wants 5% extra movement speed in any mage at all?

Guess what: the best rune to increase AP damage is Aery, and it's in another tree!!! [sg-lux-2]

Pika Fox13 votes

Because almost all mages/ability users make great use out of mobility augments? Especially battle mages.

Disulfiram8 votes

Not the way it is done in Sorcery... most mages (except maybe the most spam-happy ones Cassiopeia Ryze ) can't actually use the mobility keystone ("neat I procced it! now i can follow them a little faster for a few seconds while akwardly waiting for my 20s cds!") or would be better off with another keystone (as mentioned above, Ryze does better with Electrocute).

Nimbus cloak isn't that great either for mages... many don't find it very useful (example Azir Annie have little to no need for mobility after ulting), and some can't use it at all (Velkoz Malzahar etc root themselves while ulting). Yes there are exceptions who could use it well (Fiddlesticks Swain ), but even they are often better off with the Manaflow band or the Nullifying orb.

Celerity would be good if it gave more speed (removing the damage if needed), but as it stands it's mostly a filler on almost everybody.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

Not the way it is done in Sorcery... most mages (except maybe the most spam-happy ones Cassiopeia Ryze ) can't actually use the mobility keystone ("neat I procced it! now i can follow them a little faster for a few seconds while akwardly waiting for my 20s cds!") or would be better off with another keystone (as mentioned above, Ryze does better with Electrocute).

Nimbus cloak isn't that great either for mages... many don't find it very useful (example Azir Annie have little to no need for mobility after ulting), and some can't use it at all (Velkoz Malzahar etc root themselves while ulting). Yes there are exceptions who could use it well (Fiddlesticks Swain ), but even they are often better off with the Manaflow band or the Nullifying orb.

Celerity would be good if it gave more speed (removing the damage if needed), but as it stands it's mostly a filler on almost everybody.

Nimbus Cloak is a Vayne (sometimes) Rakan MasterYi rune 100%

Disulfiram5 votes

{quoted}

Nimbus Cloak is a Vayne (sometimes) Rakan MasterYi rune 100%

I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly none of them are mages...

Daddy Ants6 votes

{quoted}

I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly none of them are mages...

indeed.

It doesnt belong in Sorcery.

Gramps691 votes

Yi has no use for it, due to the diminishing returns on MS when you start going into the high 400s

RamRanchDressing1 votes

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the meta Yi runes are Conqueror w/Inspiration secondary

Gramps691 votes

Did I miss a patch note for inspiration? I've seen Cowsep using inspiration secondary a lot lately-- is it due to the nerf on Sudden Impact? Or did boots rune get a buff that I missed?

Pika Fox1 votes

Everyone can use nimbus; if youre immobile while ulting, you get the movespeed when movement returns. I learned this from trying it on jhin.

Disulfiram5 votes

I'm Karthus. I'm ulting because I'm either safe out of combat (where I cannot be interrupted) or I'm in my passive (I've been killed already). That movespeed is going to be of great help to me, I guess?

I'm Vel'Koz. When my ult is down I'm just a poke mage; that movespeed after ulting is going to be precious, much better than the mana regen I could have got instead (which is notoriously useless on mana-using poke spammers).

I'm Malzahar. I'm ulting because I either got diven or somehow managed to catch an enemy. I can now use that movespeed to... look cool while I wait for my cooldowns, I guess?

I could go on, but I think I made my point already (though with a bit more sarcasm than strictly needed).

Again, there are mages who could use it well, for example Fiddlesticks would love it: combined with his passive, he could use that movespeed to run after the enemies even if they dashed out of his ult. But he's so mana hungry that without Manaflow Band he needs at least 1 or even 2 mana items to actually function, and combined with his reliance on Zhonya it would delay his build and lower his damage so much that it would make it almost pointless to be able to run after them.

Pika Fox1 votes

And thats the tradeoff. Which is the point.

Mogarl5 votes

It sounds like less of a tradeoff and more like a noobtrap. It's a combo that seems like it might be fun, but if Fiddle is crippled by not taking manaflow then the only reason someone would take it is if they were unaware of the cost.

That said I don't think it's a bad rune. Manaflow is the bad rune, and should be removed with a compensation buff to the mana growth and mana regen of it's primary users. Then that entire row should be changed to effects that are triggered by abilities. If they keep nullifying orb then it should replace absolute focus.

Sleepcoma2 votes

You only take nullifying orb if nothing else is good on your champion.

PaffWasTaken3 votes

"Almost all"

Artillery mages sure do like running around while doing nothing, waiting for their 15s+ cooldowns. What an advantage to be able to run after them when your abilities are focused around ranged skillshots

Daddy Ants10 votes

Lot of runes in the current system don't belong in the page they are in.

  • Absolute Focus in my opinion should be a precision rune.

  • Presence of Mind should be a Sorcery rune.

  • Nimbus Cloak should be a Domination rune.

  • Ultimate Hunter should a Sorcery Rune.

  • Legend Tenacity should be a Resolve Rune.

Runes I believe need removing or replacing.

  • Conqueror
  • Hail of Blades
  • Dark Harvest
  • Bone Plating
ankoanko193 votes

conq needs to be replaced with fervor and dark harvest needs to deleted

LTK KoRo4 votes

I have no idea why boards have such a big boner for fervor, would love to see a explanation

Slythrin Umbreon8 votes

It's healthier then Conqueror, does what conqueror is supposed to without rendering an entire stat invalid and breaking the way the game is supposed to scale. Also, some people still just want to see Reforge Reverted, and seeing any of these runes get replaced with an old one would be nice.

LTK KoRo4 votes

Was fervor really that good against tanks? Bonus 20-40 AD doesn't sound that strong against armor-stacking guys. I personally like Conqueror on bruisers, 20% true damage being dealt by them isn't overbearing in any means , but i hate when Yasuo ignores my armor due to his ult+conq+IE.

And asking for reversal of runes reforged doesn't sound good either, old runes were big grindfest

Stupafly10 votes

upvoting for mage love

PaffWasTaken6 votes

Upvoting the upvote for mage loving love

PaladinNO5 votes

Upvoting the upvoting upvote for loving the mage loving love.

Damn, this is getting complicated.

XeroKimo2 votes

Upvoting the upvoting voting upvote for loving the mage loving loved love

Wild Geese5 votes

If they called it something other than sorcery would you care?

Moon Mom4 votes

Sorcery =/= mages.

Sorcery - ability manipulation, stat gain. Good for artillary mages and scaling carries.

Domination - Trade tools, good for lane bullies and burst users

Resolve - Defensive setup, good for safe trades. This isn't limited to just tanks and fighters.

Precision - more damage/stats and incentivizes longer, drawn-out fights.

PaffWasTaken5 votes

Out of all Precision keystones, none is actually usable by mages except for some exceptions like Viktor previously using fleet footwork

In domination, only electrocute is actually usable by a few mages like Ahri and predator is almost locked to Vladimir amongst every single laners in the game

In Resolve, no keystones at all can be both easily procced and usefull for mages

In Inspiration, Klepto has been nerfed to being usable by only a few characters and mages only pick Unsealed spellbook as a second option if they really don't synergise with anything else

Sorcery, meanwhile, has 2 keystones that are usable and usefull for Every single mages.

In case you forgot, the tree which you pick your keystone from is also your main tree and since except some mere exceptions, a very very vast majority of the mage pool will pick sorcery almost exclusively as their main tree. Of course, sorcery isn't locked to mage and a few other champions outside of this limitation also use it as their main tree, but they also have most of the time more options to choose from outside of sorcery while mages have almost none.

So I fail to see where "Sorcery =/= Mages" since most mages are locked with this option ever since the Runes Reforged implantation

Stars Shaper5 votes

The only things that're good for mages all around the rune system are Mana Band and Comet/Aery (wich are basically the same thing with different approaches), some mages get use of Phase Rush but that's it.

Ulquiorra01234 votes

I mean resolve doesn't provide any options that give CC does it? Yet it says it does...

Dethflash4 votes

YES, i agree. Quite a few of the minor runes feel like they are in the completely wrong rune tree, like why the hell would tenacity be in the Precision tree. Why did ult hat get put into Domination tree and nimbus cloak put into Sorcery tree? I only use Nimbus Cloak on AP Kennen. and Celerity? This minor run does basically next to nothing if you dont have a built in MS boost in your champion kit (which most mages do not have free MS boosts in their kits) and i usually only see people taking Celerity when they have Predator as their keystone. Water Walking also, seems like it would be an assassin rune, since you know assassins are more likely to roam and gank other lanes, but nope lets put the rune that helps people walk faster in the mage tree... How offten do you see an Anivia, Velkoz, Malz roam bot to gank? maybe like once or twice in the whole game. How often do you see a Talon, Zed, Leblanc, or Kassadin roam to gank? like every 2 to 3 minutes basically. Also scorch is a pitiful replacement for Death Fire Touch. Replace a keystone run with a minor rune when runes reforged happened... Aery is the closest thing to a replacement keystone for Death Fire Touch, a freaking support rune is the best replacement. and Conqueror... Please just remove that keystone, makes me hate this game so much when Master Yi does 55% true dmg with every auto, im a big tank, and just get melted in less than a second like butter because Master Yi (and a few other champions also, such as Fiora) do stupid amounts of true damage, like wtf is even the point in buying armor when a Master Yi with Conqueror its doing 55% true damage, toss a mortal reminder in there and 90% of your armor is completely useless. Runes Reforged have potential, but it requires Riot putting in actual work in fixing, balancing, moving around, and replacing runes.

Total Eclipse4 votes

You actually make a really good argument about the whole lack of resource manipulation and presence of mobility thing.

PaffWasTaken2 votes

Thanks, the only thing I truly want is to be able to choose mage-related runes without having to get them mainly in other trees instead of the main one who's supposed to be focused on around them

Hay5eed4 votes

Resolve say's "live forever. Durability and Crowd Control"

Live forever? A hyperbole for sure Durability? Certainly Crow Control? There isn't a single rune that GIVES crowd control

Theorchero1 votes

Crow Control? There isn't a single rune that GIVES crowd control

Glacial augment?

Divine Winds3 votes

thats... inspiration

Theorchero1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Divine Winds,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IHnH55yM,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2018-09-16T16:04:02.839+0000)

thats... inspiration

So? It's a rune.

Divine Winds2 votes

He meant a rune in the resolve tree, given the context that he was referring to the tree with the quote

Rabbi Shekelberg3 votes

I believe “resource manipulation” also meant cdr but whatever, it’s still as stupid as it sounds.

BlueSmurf20182 votes

whether or not that happened, mages are still the dominative class in mostly al the lanes. Support can be played by many charecters. Mid lane supports always do well becaise yea fuck it they have infinite range. Mages power needed to be cut. Nobody likes it when Anivia or Lux can just kind of.. Ult every 1 second for anivia and every 6 seconds for lux. Also do i even need to explain Kassadin ?

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