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Yasuo Retune/Rework. Yes, another one.

SithesisLord··4 votes·864 views

This thread has literally nothing to do with my other one (What pisses me off the most about Riot) in regards to his kit and the champion in general. This will just serve as my two cents on what i think could work for Yasuo. Not what i think it´s best for him, mind you. I did attempt to grasp at a balance standpoint. Is he a early game bully or a late game powerhouse. Since his roles are respectively, FIghter and Assassin, i attempted to capitalize more on the fighter part but still keep enough power on the assassin part. Note that i didn´t try to make him tankier but at least make him have riskier defense options.

Constructive criticism is welcome. But avoid the flaming, please. I know how he is in the higher ELOs and the lower ELOs. In essence, keep this thread clear of negative stuff please.

I did not type this under any bias in favor or against him. If some of these suggestions do come off as so, leave constructive feedback instead of the typical flaming. It´s pointless to request this from one of the most if not the most toxic gaming community in the world, but one can hope.

Yasuo - The Unforgiven

Secondary Bar: Flow Health: 540 - 2160 Health Regen: 7.0 - 23.5 Melee/Range: 170 Attack Damage: 58 - 120 Attack Speed: 0.65 Armor: 23 - 80 Magic Resist: 30 - 65 Movement Speed: 325

I´ve been seeing a lot of 'Make Flow a resource' so i´ve hopped aboard that train too. And i´ve reduced his MS dramatically. When i get to Sweeping Blade you´ll see why.

PASSIVE - WAY OF THE WANDERER

INTENT: Yasuo's critical strike chance is doubled, but his critical strikes deal 90% damage, reduced to 80% damage on Steel Tempest.

RESOLVE: Yasuo generates 1 bar of Flow every 1.5 seconds, up to a total of 10 / 15 / 20. If his health drops below 40%, Yasuo automatically consumes 10% - 80% (based on level) of his Flow reserves to shield himself for 120 - 700 (based on level) damage for 1 second. The shield can only activate once every 30 seconds.

A slight buff to his Steel Tempest crit. And he gains extra 5 bars of Flow each time he levels his ult. His shield now depends on him losing health. Why put a CD on his shield? Well, to prevent the 'sit back and watch my shield come right back up' thing i´ve seen Yasuos do.

Q - STEEL TEMPEST

RANGE: 425 WHIRLWIND RANGE: 1000 COOLDOWN: 6 COST: 1 / 1 / 1 / 2 / 3 bars of Flow PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 15 / 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 (+ 120% AD)

Yasuo thrusts his sword forward, dealing physical damage to all enemies in a line.

Hitting an enemy grants Gathering Storm for 8 seconds, stacking up to thrice. At three stacks, the next Steel Tempest unleashes a whirlwind that deals the same physical damage, knocks up all enemies hit and clears all stacks of Gathering Storm.

Each cast can critically strike, and applies on-hit effects to the first enemy hit. Additionally, each cast can be used during Sweeping Blade to change the area of effect to a circle around Yasuo.

The cooldown and cast time of Steel Tempest is reduced by 「 0.5% for every 1% critical strike chance 」, down to a maximum 50% reduction.

Base damage down, ratio up. Numbers-wise, it´s a buff. His whirlwind now needs 3 stacks to proc.

W - WINDWALL

RANGE: 375 COOLDOWN: 30 / 25 / 22 / 20 / 15 COST: 5 bars of Flow at all ranks WALL HEALTH: 5 bars WALL WIDTH: 290 / 340 / 380 / 420 / 480

ACTIVE: Yasuo creates a gust of wind that travels forward to form a wall in front of him. The wall slowly drifts forward over 2 seconds, blocking enemy projectiles.

Ah. Windwall. Ah, you dreadful windwall. Nerfity nerfs to most of it but the wall forward drift. And exceptions to more than just turret shots. To make example of three: Azir's soldier dash, Orianna's ball, Braum's ult. A more complete list of those will be made soon.

Why make the cost so high? Well...you want that windwall or your passive shield? You´re gonna have to pick now. And it´s got a high CD.

EDIT: I noticed it might come off as a huge nerf to the amount of things that will not go through the wall, but they will all suffer from passing through it. I´m not sure what yet. Maybe a medium to long lasting slow.

E - SWEEPING BLADE

RANGE: 500 STATIC COOLDOWN: 0.6 / 0.5 / 0.4 / 0.3 / 0.2 ON-TARGET COOLDOWN: 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 COST: 1/1/2/2/3 PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 45 / 60 / 85 / 110 / 140 (+45% Bonus AD)

ACTIVE: Yasuo dashes a fixed distance in the direction of the target enemy, dealing physical damage and marking them briefly. The speed of the dash scales with 75% Yasuo's total movement speed

Each cast increases the next dash's base damage by 25% for 5 seconds, up to 50% bonus damage.

BONUS DAMAGE: 11.25 / 15 / 21.25 / 27.5 / 35

Yasuo can use Sweeping Blade on a marked enemy, but the damage caused is cut by 20% every time he does so, up to a maximum of 80% damage cut.

I always found odd that his E was magic damage, so i changed that. It´s a major damage nerf and a slight CD nerf. But on the bright side, you can keep dashing to people now on the penalty that the more you dash to them, the less damage your E will do.

R - LAST BREATH

RANGE: 1300 COOLDOWN: 110 / 85 / 70 COST: All available Flow bars PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 175 / 250 / 360 (+ 80% total AD) (+1% of enemy's maximum health per Flow bar consumed)

Active: Yasuo blinks to the nearest visible airborne enemy champion to the cursor, instantly consuming all his Flow. Upon arriving, he suspends all nearby airborne enemies for 1 second and deals them physical damage.

For the next 10 seconds, Yasuo ignores 30% of his targets' total armor. Casting Last Breath clears all stacks of Gathering Storm.

Base nerf. Ratio nerf. Now the more Flow bars you have when you ult, the more extra damage you´ll do. I tried to compensate. Emphasis on tried.

All in all, i do hope this will please everyone. But i do appreciate some healthy feedback and suggestions. The Windwall exceptions list will be coming tomorrow, most likely.

Anyways, i know Riot will probably not see this or even pay attention at all. But i simply wanted to appease the threads about Yasuo reworks by doing my own. And i hope that i did so. If not...well.....can´t please everyone.

18 Comments

Dreadlocks3 votes

Yasuo is fine, people just hate getting out played. If you lost to a yasuo, its because he out performed who ever he 1v1'd mid or top. Yasuo is only as good as the person playing him.

I Might Yasuo2 votes

I feel this is very true, and people get super salty when their team fed a Yasuo and he snowballs the game.

Dreadlocks2 votes

Its pretty much why people will cry about a champion below 50% winrate that requires more skill and has outplay potential, before a champion with a 60% winrate who isnt mechanically intensive and has next to no out play potential. People hate admitting they suck.

I Might Yasuo2 votes

Agreed.

Shonjl1 votes

Just played 2 games against Yas as Morgana, suffice to say he was having a bad time til nexus blew up.

My only gripe with him is when he can lose lane hard but still become a threat due to people not paying attention to the map and him roaming. Had a game where he nearly won the game since he let me push all the way to his inhib but managed to get 4 kills during my 2 pushes and was not only capable of fighting in teamfights now, but could actually pressure and made me worry 1v1ing him when I had him by the balls all game.

If anything I think Yas needs a kit rework not became how he is now is broken, but because how he is now only rewards exceptional players with him, he is utter trash otherwise not even worthy of being stepped on.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Honestly as Yasuo main since May, I think he's fine as he is. People like to complain on the double crit and the shield passives but its probably the only way for him to even get trades. Especially since his E can be stunned or CC'ed. If Yasuo didn't have his shield then he'd get destroyed any time he wanted to do damage. He's a champ that requires lots of skill to make useful, that's why he's got the 100% skill rating. I think if people want to play Yasuo then they should practice a lot. I spent my first week with him in bot matches only, then my first PvP game I got a quadra. I like how he is now and I think he's at a point where if you are skilled enough you can do well but you will be punished for not being skilled on him. Hope this doesn't seem like I'm trying to trash you or anything, just saying I don't think rework is necessary.

Shonjl1 votes

No, you basically just said similar to what I said, I think the issue people have is Yasuo is either garbage or godly.

Personally I see that as a negative but nothing bad. He is hardly broken I feel since he requires a lot of skill to do so good at, and even then if his opponent counters him, he is still going to have a rough time.

I think people seem to like to forgo that for every good Yasuo they see, it is very damn likely they seen 1-2 that were terrible.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Almost every person who thinks Yasuo is OP was beaten or got frustrated because they just played against a skilled one.

Maple Crusader2 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo is fine, people just hate getting out played. If you lost to a yasuo, its because he out performed who ever he 1v1'd mid or top. Yasuo is only as good as the person playing him.

Or he pressed R when you get knocked-up by one of his teammates.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Again, yasuo has a low winrate for a reason. He's not easy to play, but hes strong when played well. Having a comp built around him is definitely helpful.

Indominus Blade3 votes

Garbage ideas for a rework.

Spicy Rice1 votes

Look man, i get you dont like the ideas, i dont either, but at least leave a meaningful comment why you disagree. That, or dont comment at all and keep it to yourself

IronwallJackson3 votes

I pretty much stopped reading at the point where you proposed Flow as a resource. Then I decided to give it another chance and I read down to his Q. It was all downhill from there.

You gave his Q lower base power, 20% higher scaling, and in exchange, the cooldown is now twice as long. I'm not even going to bother with sarcasm here. This is bad. It's not a buff by any means. It's a straight up nerf to a champion that excels using high DPS. The burst is slightly higher once you've got some items going, but that's not worth it when the rest of the spell rotation won't reliably kill the way an assassin's will.

Windwall nerfs. You're aware of what they are and then further display your bias against the ability by driving it into the ground without any sort of compensation anywhere else in his kit.

His E, as you yourself said, is significantly worse damage and cooldown-wise, but the ability to cast it continuously on the same unit makes it all but impossible to run away from him. This is bad on all fronts.

Finally, the R. Do you know why his shield refreshes on ult cast? It's because using last breath frequently puts you in a very dangerous place and you need to mitigate some burst. You completely got rid of that, as well as making the ability have wildly varying power based on something that can't be reliably controlled in a tight spot.

Literally everything about this is bad. I'm sorry, but it is. Nothing about this proposed rework is good and your complete lack of understanding of mechanics balance is on full display.

IronwallJackson1 votes

I want to say even more about what's wrong, but there's too much to touch on at once. Like the resource cost scalings, the psuedo-silence the kit gives itself, the TOTAL % armor pen.

Just stop proposing things until you've worked on your design chops.

Sightless662 votes

I'm going to start off by saying that this will be a very negative review of your proposal. I think is some potential in some of your ideas, but they are overshadowed by problems. The main one is the resource. I'll get into detail about the problems, but the gist of the problem is that the resource is very poorly designed. It decreases his access to spells as the game goes on, There are multiple situations where it can disappear entirely in an instant and prevent Yasuo from using spells at all, and it doesn't have even one mechanic designed to support his current rapid-casting playstyle like a good energy-type resource would. It overshadows everything else in the proposal, and basically breaks the entire kit. Well.... let's get into it.

he gains extra 5 bars of Flow each time he levels his ult.

I think that this mechanic, along with the increasing costs on his abilities, is a really bad idea. Because his flow generation rate never increases, what this essentially does is says that later game, he has less access to sustained casting than he does early game. Regenerating enough flow for a Q will take 1.5 seconds early game but will take 4.5 seconds late game. That's a much lower access to sustained spellcasting as the game progresses.

When you combine this with the two mechanics you have that drain almost all of his flow (this shield and the ult), it actually looks like the ideal choice for Yasuo is to level his skills to the highest possible level where they only cost one flow, and then not level them up again. I'd seriously be sitting on 5 unspent skill points with a level 3 Q and a level 2 E late game. That will give him much more access to his abilities during pretty much all fights. That's a really shitty decision to force someone to make.

I really can't emphasize this enough. You'd made flow costs so crippling to him late game, you haven't increased his flow generation rate late game to match the flow costs, and your increased flow cap doesn't mean shit because both the shield and ult drain you down to almost no flow. He'll basically be denied access to spells for up to 4.5 seconds after ulting and/or popping a shield, but early game you'd only be denied access to abilities for 1.5 seconds. Why should he lose access to spells for so much longer late game than early game? I'd pretty sure he'd be the only champion in the game to function that way. How is this going to work for him?

If his health drops below 40%, Yasuo automatically consumes 10% - 80% (based on level) of his Flow reserves to shield himself for 120 - 700 (based on level) damage for 1 second.

I got here and just stopped. This one mechanic is completely and utterly terrible. I mean, what is it supposed to do? Yasuo gets caught, starts getting killed, and then his passive screws him out of the resource he would need to actually do something about it? That is the single most frustrating thing I can think of in the game. Seriously, I literally can not think of anything more annoying than having my own kit screw me out of my abilities at exactly the point when I need them most. It would suck to play with to an ungodly degree. I don't play this champion and I'm already feeling bad for everyone who mains him just hearing this idea.

Having my passive pop to give me a shield should not be a punishment. I should not be sitting there thinking "gee, I wish I didn't have a passive right now. I could have escaped using my skills if only I didn't have this damn passive". I'm going to thinking of how much I hate the shield for draining all my flow waaaaaay more often than I'm going to be grateful for having it, and that's generally not a good thing for me to be thinking about the champion I am playing.

I'm not trying to flame you with this, but I have to make it clear that this is not negotiable. The shield cost is the one mechanic on this kit that can not possibly work in League of Legends. It's a terrible mechanic, and it is completely incompatible with the idea of having a resource. Resources don't disappear spontaneously because you took damage. It's equivalent to "you lost 80% of your mana or energy because you hit 40% health" as a passive. Seriously, that's exactly what it is. I don't care what shitty shield you give to mitigate the punishment. It's still a punishment, and that isn't going to work as a passive.

Yasuo can use Sweeping Blade on a marked enemy,

That is an ungodly annoying mechanic.

This really is worse than anything he has right now (yes, I'm including the windwall in that). The inability to constantly stick to someone is one of the major weaknesses you can exploit playing against Yasuo when he's ahead. It's a very important thing you can do against him when he's ahead to the point of being too difficult to fight. I don't care if he's not doing any damage with repeated casts of the E. It's the staying in range that is really dangerous.

It also really messes with the design of his E. The E currently allows high mobility, but only along certain routes. Letting him cast fully at will just removes conditions on the mobility. It seems like that really dumbs down the gameplay. Even from the perspective of playing with it, I don't really like this idea. I like the idea of Yasuo players having to plan out how they want to use their mobility, instead of getting free and easy stickiness.

I would design in exactly the opposite direction of this. Make him more reliant on planning his mobility out, not less reliant.

And exceptions to more than just turret shots. To make example of three: Azir's soldier dash, Orianna's ball, Braum's ult.

Seems arbitrary. Not ideal. I get that you hate this skill, but this seems like a pretty confusing way of changing it. I mean, do I have to just memorize the interactions with every skill? What the heck are the rules here?

This isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it really needs to be fully fleshed out. If there is a clear logic to what isn't blocked and what is, then it could work. Consistency is very important to preserve. If we can't find a way to make it logically consistent, then playing more on the idea of the shield health and/or different effects for the shield would be a better direction to take it in.

Why make the cost so high? Well...you want that windwall or your passive shield? You´re gonna have to pick now.

What do you mean "you're gonna have to pick". The entire point of the passive shield being a passive is that I can't pick. It activates without my choice. I don't want it to activate. I want the windwall. It really sucks that I can't choose that because my enemies popping my shield makes the choice for me even though the windwall and dashes that I'm being fucked out of would be way more useful for saving my life than that stupid shield. Seriously, fuck the shield cost. That mechanic needs to go. Keep the windwall cost if you really want it, but the shield cost has to die. There is no way around that. It can not exist on any functional kit. Losing 80% of your resource because you hit 40% health is a terribly punishing mechanic.

Last Breath: COST: All available Flow bars

So.... I ult in, and either they instantly pop or I die because I have no abilities to follow up with? I'm not sure I see how this is supposed to work out. What's my plan? What am I supposed to do after jumping in? Autoattack and pray they can't kill me? Hope that I one-shot them? What am I supposed to do for the 4.5 seconds where I don't have any access to abilities?

It's the flow cost that screws this entire skill. Having it this high literally means he won't be able to cast a skill for at least 4.5 seconds after ulting. How is that going to work out for Yasuo if he's not just one-shotting them with the ult?

For the next 10 seconds, Yasuo ignores 30% of his targets' total armor.

I'm not sure if I like or dislike this change. Along with the % max health damage on the ult, It would make him much more designed around trying to instasquishies with an ult and 1-2 autos (or abilities, if that silly flow cost is removed), but is that really the direction we want to push him in? He already seems pretty tuned around that on live, so do we really want to make him more reliant on that and/or better at it? I'd like to hear what you are thinking with this.

Final point: Your flow bar is functionally almost the same thing as the energy bar, so we really wanted to give him a resource, I'd actually make him an energy champion and I'd have him play by the same rules as energy champions. Lower the energy costs as skills are leveled up, and have an ultimate that doesn't cost any energy. Introduce some mechanic that he has to play around that regenerates his energy, particularly if you really are attached to the huge energy cost on the ultimate (not the passive, that one has to stay dead). That would fix the largest problems that cripple your rework.

It's really hard to evaluate anything else you proposed fairly when the resource system is so clearly designed to screw the champion. It really messes with the design of everything else you wrote down.

IronwallJackson1 votes

My, my, I'm very impressed by your analysis. I tried to keep my own short while yours in very thorough and goes into every detail that I glossed over in the interest of brevity.

Tell me, why do you think so many people suggest "flow as a resource" ideas without giving the concept any adequate amount of thought?

Sightless661 votes

The boards always get attached to terrible ideas. It is easy to be annoyed at a champion's mechanics and want to change them. Considering what the changed mechanics would be like to play with is very different.

IronwallJackson1 votes

This is true. Lord knows I scrolled past loads of rework suggestions made by people with a hate-on for the champion in question.

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