And when support items get too strong, people demand that support power should be shifted to their kits.
While I'm in the party that prefers stronger kits to items, I can't be the only one noticing this seesaw of balance problems with supports.
Ahristocats3 votesthere is ABSOLUTLY nothing wrong with a support being played in solo lane
a support remains a support, the identity of a champion isn't tied to what lane he's being played ivern is a support played in the jungle nunu is a support played in the jungle
the problem with previous supports played in sololane is that they were all obnoxious (tahm kench for instance)
picking a support in sololane remains a strategy, it means you're willing to sacrifice damage for utility it's a common thing in dota 2
BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votesAP Lulu Mid and Top gave up neither.
Ahristocats1 votesand guess what? she got nerfed
her Q allowed her to waveclear+poke without any condition she had basically a sololaner level of power tied with a support level of utility
but what if Sona goes mid? she won't have waveclear, she will lack of safety, she will trade utility and burst for weaknesses that lulu didn't have
Support going in sololane doesn't automatically say "should not be allowed"
going mid is the best example of that
he doesn't bring a sololane level of damage/reliability but can support his team while lacking of reliable kill potential
Ralanr1 votesSee that's usually why the get nerfed in solo lane, because they end up being obnoxious.
Maybe you can fill me in, but I have yet to see a meta where a support goes solo lane and functions as a support rather than something that ends up being obnoxious to fight against (Tahm, Lulu, etc).
I'm not against solo lane supports (and I'm talking lanes, not the jungle since it doesn't have this problem that often) I just notice a trend where they only go solo lane when they're obnoxious to play against. With a few exceptions that balance out their roles (Morgana and Lux for example).
Penns1 votesI mean id argue that when its worth giving up the damage from a carry position like mid to have another support for your adc like Lulu or Karma with Ardent and Grail... they are probably too strong and thats why it shouldnt be allowed
hehe
Erockandroll1 votesI mean id argue that when its worth giving up the damage from a carry position like mid to have another support for your adc like Lulu or Karma with Ardent and Grail... they are probably too strong and thats why it shouldnt be allowed
hehe
Honestly, that could be a function of the meta, and not necessarily that Utility mages are strong. (Unless you assume that Utility mages caused the meta. But Correlation is not causation) The fact that high defense tanks are currently meta, puts Assassins and Mages on the back foot, since they now have fewer targets to burst. That could give birth to a "Protect the Carry" comp, even though utility mages never had been especially emphasized.
The only real issue coming from Utility mages is that they have a massive insurance policy. Since many of their kit's are designed to work on a supports budget, they never really fall behind.
I think it's fair though.
A support that's strong enough to solo Lane is a problem, since supports are built to still be useful when very behind on gold and xp. So if they're strong enough to be a solo laner, there's a real problem as they'll be strong even when you've crushed them in Lane.
Likewise support items can't get too strong - as otherwise the items can be abused by everyone. You try to tweak them to make them only viable on supports but you can't do that on every item.
Honestly the whole problem stems from people wanting supports to feel strong. Supports shouldn't feel strong. They can be useful and support their team, enabling the team to carry them, but they can't be strong themselves. Too few people are willing to play support when it's that way though, so they are stronger than they should be and we have these problems.
The problem is, as a support main, I can see were your argument hits. However, the fact that the support roles is so unlike the other roles in that regard, is part of the reason why no one is playing the role, and people keep complaining when they get Autofilled to said role.
Not to mention that both support's kits and items can be made to be less effective in lane. You could probably buff Raka's healing to the point of frustration, and still not see her in lane because her kit won't allow her to lane. Likewise, Most solo laner's want stats, but you can create support items that are low on stats, and high on powerful actives. (high redemption, High locket)
Edit: I will make one caviot about Support balance though. I would go for kit centric over item centric, if I had to chose between the two. While you could make powerful items that only serve a supportive function, relying on them takes away the uniqueness of the individual supports.
ValyrianBlade1 votesI think it's fair though.
A support that's strong enough to solo Lane is a problem, since supports are built to still be useful when very behind on gold and xp. So if they're strong enough to be a solo laner, there's a real problem as they'll be strong even when you've crushed them in Lane.
Likewise support items can't get too strong - as otherwise the items can be abused by everyone. You try to tweak them to make them only viable on supports but you can't do that on every item.
Honestly the whole problem stems from people wanting supports to feel strong. Supports shouldn't feel strong. They can be useful and support their team, enabling the team to carry them, but they can't be strong themselves. Too few people are willing to play support when it's that way though, so they are stronger than they should be and we have these problems.
Ralanr1 votesI think Riot needs to better enforce on how supports should feel strong by proxy.
ValyrianBlade1 votesI think Riot needs to better enforce on how supports should feel strong by proxy.
Yea, the only time i feel "strong" as Leona is when i flash-e on to a target that the team could never have gotten otherwise (often if i roam up to mid). To be fair i only play support when filled so maybe better Leona players have more moments - but if i just land a typical e on the enemy carry or hit a 3/4 man ult i just figure i did my job or the enemy messed up, it wasn't because i made a high skill play.
It sounds stupid, but i think the only way you're going to see supports feeling good about themselves when they're weak enough to be balanced is if riot starts adding cc shoutouts and shield/heal shoutouts, etc... like you get a kill and Leona's face appears over the body with a message "2.25 seconds cc'd" or your adc owns a fight and soraka's face shows up next to adc's kill credit and says "175% of total health healed, prevented 4 possible deaths". These are hugely impactful but supports seem to want to be able to 1v1 people and stuff.