Armor Pen and Last Whisper Revert

Bonipherus·5/24/2018, 6:02:09 AM·13 votes·6,712 views

I don't think we can keep things the same as it has been in the past when we are in a state where will all exist and work together in the most optimal way. ad assassins are going to melt tanks because they are not punished for building these items, in fact, they are encouraged to build them.

let's say we have a tank with 200 armor. cleaver's shred is applied first which brings the total armor down to 152 armor. next up is the percent pen from last whisper which gives our tank a total of 98.8 armor. finally, our lethality kicks into play here which for 3 items and our rune brings us to 64 total pen. our 200 armor tank now has 34.8 armor

at 250 armor cleaver's shred brings us to 190 armor. last whisper brings us to 123.5. and lethality brings us down to 59.5 total armor. that extra 50 armor is only worth 24.7 armor in the end. not even half the value.

20 Comments

AirKingNeo5/24/2018, 12:29:06 PM4 votes

FINALLY someone mentions that LW is broken for assassins on the PBE.

I still think Cleaver should be 30% armor pen again and be unique with LW.

Sniperfuchs5/24/2018, 12:18:38 PM3 votes

Math is nice and all, but you are ignoring play patterns completely to make your point. Let's see you getting those 5 stacks of BC on a tank as an AD assassin. And not only that, you also have various other problems to consider: Percent based damage reductions, CC flying your way, the fact that this build does in no way make you tanky enough to get off more than one burst combo which still won't kill a tank most likely.

And last but not least: At that point you should ask yourself if it was even the best idea to try to kill their tank instead of their carry. Yeah, with these changes it could become an option, but I'd argue that most of the time the chances for you winning the fight won't increase much by doing more damage to the tank when the priority target still dies pretty much as fast as before.

ProfDrDeath5/24/2018, 6:37:16 AM2 votes

Yes, that will be one of the major issues to solve with the revert to total ArPen. And the 2-3 Lethality + Lord Dominik's build is bonkers even without Cleaver.

What I think might happen before Worlds comes around is that they change the order in which %-pen and Lethality are applied. If Lethality applied before %-Pen, your example would have 57.2 Armor. Still not a lot, but better than the alternative.

Relia Fortune5/24/2018, 1:43:06 PM2 votes

Not only assasins.. MissFortune which you'd think I'd love it, however I don't want to see my main being busted as all heck next patch and pick/ban by people cause how well she can use said items.

lykkelas5/24/2018, 2:23:52 PM2 votes

cleaver should be melee only and LW items should be ranged only. cleaver lucian should never have been a thing. cleaver mf is ridic. and LW on zed/talon/yasuo is just overkill.

i guess this removes grievous wounds from ad melees but they could just have executioners build into another item.

giantZorg5/24/2018, 2:01:34 PM1 votes

While I agree with everything you write, a full tank with 5 items + boots (like you show for the assassin) would have more than 200 armor. Alone Sunfire + IBG + 100 base armor (at high champion level) will be more. The real problem will be for everyone else like fighters and offtanks.

DragonShea5/25/2018, 3:13:05 AM1 votes

Face it, armor shred needs to be nerfed. Stacking it is gonna kill armor.

Daddy Ants5/24/2018, 10:26:14 AM1 votes

Tank main spotted.

iPooUnicorns5/24/2018, 3:27:06 PM1 votes

The thing is, Assassins will still need to use full combos to kill a tank, and likely a 2nd rotation of spells. Tanks have high HP pools, and Black Cleaver doesn't instantly apply 25% armor reduction. Zed, Wukong, Kayn and Talon won't be able to kill them with basic abilities alone; Rengar and Kha'Zix would need to Q a tank at least 3-4 times.

If an Assassin has to use their full combo or spend a decent amount of time focusing a tank, that's time during a teamfight where the Assassin isn't killing the ADC or other backline targets. If the tank is alone, an Assassin should be able to stand a chance against a tank that's isolated, currently a tank will straight up win vs Assassins by stat checking the Assassin with high armor.

The Last Whisper changes is going to make more of a difference for fighters against tanks. Champs like Aatrox Illaoi Jayce Renekton Riven XinZhao will once again be able to counter tanks.