Garen keeps getting shafted by runes and masteries

Khristophoros·Oct 26, 2017·1 votes·1,650 views

In the old runes he's one of the few bruisers/tanks/juggs whatever you wanna call him who cannot use Courage of the Colossus because it doesn't work on silence for some reason.

And now there's going to be a new rune he can't use, Aftershock, for the same reason, and it really sucks because he'd really be good with that rune.

Also Sudden Impact actually thematically makes sense on his Q but it doesn't count.

I'm reminded of these things whenever I roll him in ARAM and it's frustrating because you can't really get creative with him due to how things like this don't work for him.

14 Comments

Variks the LoyalOct 26, 20172 votes

On Garen? Both Grasp of the Undying and Predator seem like good keystone runes to pick.

Critmaster GarenOct 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Variks the Loyal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HwyN4vrL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-26T17:49:42.763+0000)

On Garen? Both Grasp of the Undying and Predator seem like good keystone runes to pick.

theyre both terrible options in most cases.

you wont get grasp stacked in about 2/3 of your matchups. you have to remember that you wont be able to stack it when you have to play passive. since garens early levels are weak and he mostly starts to scale at lvl 11, he has to play passive against a lot of matchups early on.

even if you can repeatedly trade, the buff constantly keeps dropping off in lane before it is primed after 4 seconds, because sometimes the windows between lasthitting take too long to refresh your "in combat" status.

even WHEN you get it stacked, its about 100 to 150 extra health at the end of a game.

grasp isnt a good option for anyone and especially not for garen. its widely regarded as one of the weakest, if not the weakest keystone so far.

Variks the LoyalOct 26, 20171 votes

150 ain't that bad. That's an extra Ruby Crystal in your build.

And Predator feels like it'll be really good on a lot of Juggernauts. Basically lets you have Ghost as an extra summoner spell. Not so much for it's damage, but for target access. You're tanky, and you can just run through the enemy team. Sidespec into Resolve for more durability and use the Domination masteries for damage or whatever you wanna use. Maybe even Ravenous Hunter would be useful, get a small burst heal when you ult someone.

I'm just theorycrafting, I'm not a Garen player by any means. I love Juggernauts, but mainly Skarner and Volibear, not Garen.

Critmaster GarenOct 26, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Variks the Loyal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HwyN4vrL,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-10-26T18:23:57.942+0000)

150 ain't that bad. That's an extra Ruby Crystal in your build.

And Predator feels like it'll be really good on a lot of Juggernauts. Basically lets you have Ghost as an extra summoner spell. Not so much for it's damage, but for target access. You're tanky, and you can just run through the enemy team. Sidespec into Resolve for more durability and use the Domination masteries for damage or whatever you wanna use. Maybe even Ravenous Hunter would be useful, get a small burst heal when you ult someone.

I'm just theorycrafting, I'm not a Garen player by any means.

its bad compared to the other runes.

and there is no reason to pick predator over the new thunderlord. especially since predator cant be cast while youre already in combat. so its not comparable to ghost.

Variks the LoyalOct 26, 20171 votes

WIll Electrocute tick from multiple hits of Judgement?

Critmaster GarenOct 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Variks the Loyal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HwyN4vrL,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-26T18:27:01.819+0000)

WIll Electrocute tick from multiple hits of Judgement?

no, but its still easy to trigger.

auto attack + decisive strike + 1 spin tick procs it. but electrocute isnt in the resolve tree.

what grinds my gears is, that grasp is more matchup specific and situational than most other keystone runes. yet, there is no generic alternative in that tree if you want to go into resolve but you cant go with grasp.

AhrisOct 26, 20171 votes

Many champs are also impacted.

KhristophorosOct 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Many champs are also impacted.

Which other champs?

I think Morde has the same exact issues as Garen in this regard but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

Well, Sudden Impact is dumb because there's no counterpart in any tree for champs _without _ dash, stealth, or blink. Like there should really be a rune somewhere like "You gain X {stat} per second up to a cap of Y. This resets if you use a dash, blink, teleport, or stealth."

AhrisOct 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Which other champs?

I think Morde has the same exact issues as Garen in this regard but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

Well, Sudden Impact is dumb because there's no counterpart in any tree for champs _without _ dash, stealth, or blink. Like there should really be a rune somewhere like "You gain X {stat} per second up to a cap of Y. This resets if you use a dash, blink, teleport, or stealth."

Thunderlords now need 3 unique hits to proc. So ahri cannot proc it from just Q Auto or by Q Ludens anymore. Meaning it is a huge nerf to her laning phase. Which also would have meant that Ahri did not need the nerf where her w and r killed someone as thunderlords was the main reason for that happening.

Many champs were affected. Some negatively and some positively. You cannot just think that "only my champ is nerfed!!!" When in reality there are other champs who are just as or more suffering than your champ. To be clear, I'm not saying Ahri is suffering more than Garen.

Edit: Or even Syndra ulti one shotting is not gonna happen anymore either as thunderlords played a huge role for the burst becoming strong. So the nerf to her ulit before was also not needed.

ModKnightsKemplarOct 26, 20171 votes

I mean... in the new runes, you still have grasp of the undying, and full damage Garen has several options that could be fun.

Just because some of the traditional tank runes don't work on him doesn't mean you can't get creative. Garen has good traditional options, and you can go to some of the other trees for new flavors if you want them. The Inspiration tree is supposed to be for anyone, and I'm sure Garen could make good use of some of those runes.

Critmaster GarenOct 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I mean... in the new runes, you still have grasp of the undying, and full damage Garen has several options that could be fun.

Just because some of the traditional tank runes don't work on him doesn't mean you can't get creative. Garen has good traditional options, and you can go to some of the other trees for new flavors if you want them. The Inspiration tree is supposed to be for anyone, and I'm sure Garen could make good use of some of those runes.

grasp

shit.

people overhype the stack mechanic. garen wont be able to trade consistently with many matchups very early on. its mostly tanks he can repeatedly fight. other bruisers only occationally, and ranged characters not at all.

graps bonus health will amount to about 100 or maybe 150 health by the time the game ends, if things go well early on. if they dont, he will end up with like 20 or 30 extra health from the keystone. otherwise its exactly the same keystone as now, while every other keystone got buffed.

when you go into resolve youre really only left with one incredibly situational option, which sucks. i dont understand why silences arent included for aftershock, considering many other fighters are able to proc the mastery without issues.

its also the ONLY keystone that is exclusive to certain champions. every other keystone can be triggered by every champion, even if the kit synergy might be bad. (like the new warlords on a mage for example).

oh, and as far as inspiration goes, ranged champions get twice the benefit from masteries like kleptomacy, since they constantly get the gold and items off ranged poke. its the same situation as with grasp, where garen wont be able to trade frequently enough in 2/3 of his matchups to gain a notable benefit out of it.

MadVikingOct 26, 20171 votes

A lot of champs will be impacted.

I think Nasus will be impacted pretty hard since hes gonna lose a ton of CDR scaling or flat CDR.

Not to mention Grasp looks really strong right now but it encourages trading to get the most out of it. Nasus for the first few minutes is not a good trader until 6 and has Sheen.

Overall though I'm ready for the change. I want the meta to turn upside down and with the new runes and masteries it will -- and we will have to relearn the new system and new strategies with each champion.

Critmaster GarenOct 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

A lot of champs will be impacted.

I think Nasus will be impacted pretty hard since hes gonna lose a ton of CDR scaling or flat CDR.

Not to mention Grasp looks really strong right now but it encourages trading to get the most out of it. Nasus for the first few minutes is not a good trader until 6 and has Sheen.

Overall though I'm ready for the change. I want the meta to turn upside down and with the new runes and masteries it will -- and we will have to relearn the new system and new strategies with each champion.

i see no reason why a small pool of fighters gets shafted because riot wants an arbitrary condition on aftershock.

there are a lot of fighters and tanks who can easily pick up the rune.

Darius can trigger it with his pull. JarvanIV with his knockup. Warwick with his w and ult. MOST fighters are able to benefit from the rune.

the ones that dont are just randomly excluded for no reason at all.

MadVikingOct 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HwyN4vrL,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-10-26T18:28:22.391+0000)

i see no reason why a small pool of fighters gets shafted because riot wants an arbitrary condition on aftershock.

there are a lot of fighters and tanks who can easily pick up the rune.

can trigger it with his pull. with his knockup. with his w and ult. MOST fighters are able to benefit from the rune.

the ones that dont are just randomly excluded for no reason at all.

Yah. I like the minor runes in the tank tree but the main runes don't benefit my main champion much. (Nasus)

I think the Sorcery Tree with Phase Rush -- and minor into Resolve take Demolish and Overgrowth or Conditioning will be best bets with Nasus as of now.